James 1: 22 But be doers of the word, and not only hearers of it, blinding yourselves with false ideas.<BR>23 Because if any man is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man looking at his natural face in a glass;<BR>24 For after looking at himself he goes away, and in a short time he has no memory of what he was like.<BR>25 But he who goes on looking into the true law which makes him free, being not a hearer without memory but a doer putting it into effect, this man will have a blessing on his acts. <P>I am struggling with what I feel GOD speaking unto me and actually putting it in practice at crunch time. It seems that I can only reflect on "how I should have acted in a given situation" as opposed to actually perceiving Gods will and intent and behaving in a godly way. I feel my fleshly, resentful, angry, defeated and battered mind and emotions controlling my actions. I feel my love for my wife slipping away little by little each day. I don't want this to happen. I know that it is my own fleshly mind that keeps defeating me. I have a desire to be forgiving, but I struggle. I have a desire to not judge, to be understanding, to be compassionate and forgiving toward my wife, and in many ways I have been. But I catch myself being filled with anger and disappointment and a defeated spirit. I know that it is gods will that I stand strong and fight for my marriage with all that I have. I just fear that all that I have is not enough. How can I maintain true love for her. I feel myself growing in Christ. Growing closer to god. I know he has my best interest at work in my life. I am just afraid that my sinful nature is preventing his perfect work. My fervent PLAN A has wilted somewhat. I have resided myself to simply trying to survive through this experience. I realize now how my lack of appropriate boundaries has left me failing Gods purpose for my marriage. My fear of conflict and desire to be the submissive and accommodating partner have left my wife and I in reverse roles to the plan of god. She is the leading force of the family and I am only along for the ride. I am reading through Boundaries in Marriage now. It is encouraging and discouraging at the same time. Encouraging because I feel God opening my eyes to his truth. Discouraging because I just don't feel confident and strong enough to implement what I know is right. I am afraid if I begin setting boundaries that she will simply leave. As she has threatened in not so many words in the recent past. She has already left emotionally. She only exists physically inside the marriage. To her credit, I believe she wants to feel differently, but doesn't know how. And her hurt keeps her from wanting to even think about the work that it would take for us to recapture Intimacy. Much less actually do the work. <P>I need your prayers. I need your help. <P>Lord God. Please reveal your truth too me father. Speak to my heart in such a way that your will for me will not be a mystery to me. Reach down into my spirit and cleanse me father. Take away the fleshly thoughts and desires within me., Teach me to love my wife as Christ loves the church. Open my heart and spirit to your will. Teach me to set the boundaries that will bring forth your will and not my own. Give me the strength to be what you would have me to be in my family. Help me discern between sinful assumptions and setting boundaries out of love and a desire to bring truth and love to my marriage. Strengthen me father. Give me the confidence in myself to do what is right in your eyes and not my own. Help me protect my family from further harm. Let me be a light in my home and not a hindrance. Teach me to forgive lord. to not judge my wife for her actions but to have compassion and understanding. Teach me to not deny her freedom to make her own choices even when I don't like the outcome and result. Help me to give her freedom, yet not enable her to hurt herself and our family. Keep our children close to you father and myself and my wife. Help me be the vessel by which she may seek your will. Use me and shape me to your will. Bring me to a place of peace and hope in you. Help me to seek only you for my happiness lord. Help me to depend only on you for my peace and joy. Strengthen me to not condemn my wife when she hurts me, but to feel the pain that she must be feeling to lash out at me. Help me to help her heal. Help me to heal myself and my family through you and your word father. Don't let my own selfishness quench the fire which is the love that I have for her. Teach me to overcome my sins and love her and be in love with her as is your will. Let my spirit be filled with patience and understanding. Teach me Godly strength and victory. Help me understand boundaries that I need on my own behavior and on what behavior I will endure from others. Help me to set boundaries in love. Not for the purpose of restriction father, but for the purpose of loving guidance and growth as Christ loves the church. Give me your wisdom and strength that I don't fall to my own desires, but keep my mind on you and your will for my life. In Jesus name. amen.<P>Thanks for just being there.<BR>

AMEN<P>Sadwings - Dear friend, I am praying in agreement with you!<P> A friend of mine introduced me to a book from which I'm getting a LOT of insight and spiritual straightening-out: "Confronting the Myth of Self-Esteem" by Rasban. <P>The chapter I'm in right now is on gratitude. Without our focus on God, seeking Him with all our hearts, we will not reside in His perfect love. His love casteth out fear. If we set our minds and hearts on God's love and infinite atonement at all times, then we will be filled with gratitude. The alternative? To see yourself as a small dirty object.<P><BR>When our hearts are truly open and accepting of Jesus' love, then we can love our neighbors and our enemies. Then you can see your wife through God's eyes and love her in spite of all her faults, and see her potential.<P>The Seeking God with All Our Hearts thread is a good one. <P>

Hi Sadwings,<P>The other piece that you need to reflect on is Romans 7...Satan would have you cut yourself down, to tell yourself what a bad person you are, worthless if you set a boundary, etc. <P>God shows us as you are learning in the BIM book that boundaries are essential. When you set healthy boundaries as the head of the house, with the family's best interests in mind, you are honoring your wife. You can do this in a gentle and quiet manner, firm and loving no matter how she responds in the beginning. Loving her in an understanding way does not mean to allow her to get away with wrong just because you are fearful of conflict. I do believe women desire for their husband's to step up to the plate and assume the headship role.<P>Do you pray together? Does she hear you praising GOd for her, asking him to bless her and to give the both of you wisdom? Does she hear you confessing that you have abdicated the role in the past and truly desire to be the man God wants you to be and to ask her to pray for you in this area. She may balk just because she doesn't believe it, but you continue on, one step at a time and each step builds confidence by the One who placed you in that position as you are obedient.<P>I will pray in agreement with you my brother. I hope my H is so inspired to do the same some day.

Thanks Karenna and SueB,<P>I respect and appreciate your opinions and insight greatly. <P>Romans 7, .<BR> 17: So it is no longer I who do it, but the sin living in me.<BR> 18: For I am conscious that in me, that is, in my flesh, there is nothing good: I have the mind but not the power to do what is right.<BR> 19: For the good which I have a mind to do, I do not: but the evil which I have no mind to do, that I do.<BR> 20: But if I do what I have no mind to do, it is no longer I who do it, but the sin living in me.<BR> 21: So I see a law that, though I have a mind to do good, evil is present in me.<BR> 22: In my heart I take pleasure in the law of God,<BR> 23: But I see another law in my body, working against the law of my mind, and making me the servant of the law of sin which is in my flesh.<BR> 24: How unhappy am I! who will make me free from the body of this death?<BR> 25: I give praise to God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So with my mind I am a servant to the law of God, but with my flesh to the law of sin.<P>This really caught my eye as I read what SueB recommended. This is how I feel. Suppressed by my flesh. Lead by it instead of the spirit. In my mind I prepare myself for the next occasion in which I know I need to place a boundary on my own behavior. I prepare my mind to follow that which God has put in me to do. Then, when the situation arises, all is lost to the carnal habits and behaviors that have been ingrained in my behavior over the years. Then the deceiving one mocks me and tells me that I will never change and that I am not strong enough to be what God would have me be. The spiritual warfare surrounding conflict between my wife and I is another deterrent to me when I am already a conflict avoider in the first place. <enter helpless feeling here><P>I know I must and can be strong in Christ. Yet, as I neglected my wife and my role as a husband, I also neglected my service and relationship to God. Sadly I must confess that I only began to truly seek him again in August when I knew I had nowhere else to turn. He has nurtured and strengthened me greatly but I still feel like a "baby Christian" not yet capable of "grown up" spirit filled living. I guess I feel like there are so many problems in my marriage that for one - I have no real sense of where to begin. And two - I don't have the necessary skills to pull it off. I feel like the only thing that can make my marriage whole again is a miracle in itself. I know that I am a wreck and a weakened and fragile vessel and my wife is disinterested and withdrawn. Where is the strength required to heal it all. I know that it is all in the hands of God. Maybe I am trying to force the issue before I am ready. Maybe that statement was me just trying to avoid conflict again?? See the confusion. <P>I want to do the right thing. I want to do what is Gods will. I suppose I am reluctant to display authority over my wife or her actions. I know that her reaction will be negative. She will feel judged and cornered. And isn't that really what I will be doing. Judging her behavior against what I believe to be "acceptable". I am conflicted by this. There are grey areas. How do I know if what I perceive as acceptable is based on Gods will or my own selfish interpretations. <P>Example: Wife is very withdrawn and refuses to speak about "us" issues with me or anyone else in her life. Parents, siblings, friends. She is completely shut down and bottled up. I know that it is Gods will for our marriage to heal. I am going to counseling and find it helpful. I truly believe it would be helpful and part of the healing process for us both to go. The problem is, I am not her master. I cant make her go or do I want to. But I also know in my heart that we need help to heal. The issues are too big to handle on our own. I am conflicted. I cant stand for our relationship to go on as is. Is it my duty as a husband to put a boundary on refusing to participate in the healing of the marriage? Is this not a harmful behavior comparable to a drug addiction for example. You see that the one you love is hurting themselves and the ones around them. Yet unlike a drug addiction this is a matter of the heart and soul. Isn't that ground where only God can tread. ?????????? I guess I feel like I am robbing her of her freedom as BIM talks about. Even God himself waits patiently for us to seek him out. But I am not God. I am only human. The waiting is killing my own spirit. The constant hurting and rejection is hardening my heart. I don't want this to be, and I fight it, but so far I am losing. Every day seems like we are closer to separation, not reconciliation. Time heals all wounds. But in what manner. <P>I am feeling desperate. Like if I don't do something to point our marriage in a new direction that the current path leads only to death for us. That is why I am so inclined to question my motives for boundaries. Do I act out of love or am I just kidding myself. Is it my true desire just to mix things up? To add a new ingredient because the current taste of things is undesirable? And why in the world do I question everything????? Wait that was another question.<P>Concerning prayer, Unfortunately we don't pray together. She actually seems a bit put off by my seeking out God again. We were once very close to God together. I believe she sees my new found interest as just another ploy to be the "good guy" and win her back. I know that my heart is true and I know that I will continue to walk with God be it alone or hand in hand with my wife who I love dearly.<P>Thanks for listening. and please feel free to speak your heart.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. <P>Your struggle is not against your wife. She is not the enemy. She is hurt and has withdrawn so as not to be hurt further. My guess is that she is watching you. YOu have made this change since August. She is watching to see if you will will continue to grow in the Lord or if it is some tactic to get her back to doing what you want her to do instead of you learning to live with her in an understanding way....<P>ISA 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:<BR> It will not return to me empty,<BR> but will accomplish what I desire<BR> and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.<P>Satan wants to discredit you, however, your whole self-worth is in who you are in Christ, holy and fully loved, royalty, chosen before your birth, an heir....<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>2CO 3:12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. [13] We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. [14] But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. [15] Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. [16] But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. [17] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. [18] And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect* the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.<P>2CO 4:1 Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. [2] Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. [3] And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. [4] The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. [5] For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. [6] For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"* made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.<P> 2CO 4:7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. [8] We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; [9] persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. [10] We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. [11] For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body. [12] So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The purpose my brother of PLan A is for your growth, to be the best person you can be in the strength of the Lord. It is not to win your wife, however, when your wife sees your faithfulness and firmness and joy as God grows you, the love may be rekindled. Pick one or two things to change and be faithful and lovingly firm in them, consistent. Though she may balk now at your praying together, do not let her negativity keep you from doing what is right. Continue to pray God's blessing on her...one of the things that struck me in the Power of a Praying wife book was that we are one in the Lord, so whatever happens to our spouse, will surely have impact on us, so we need to pray for blessings for our husbands so that we too are blessed...makes sense to me. So continue to pray for your wife, continue to ask God to bless her in a special way, to guide you into living with her in an understanding way, showing you how to love yourself as Christ loved the Church o that she will feel the outpouring of that love.<P> JAS 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [8] Come near to God and he will come near to you. <P>You are on the right track. Gal.6:9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SadWings:<BR><B>In my mind I prepare myself for the next occasion in which I know I need to place a boundary on my own behavior. I prepare my mind to follow that which God has put in me to do. Then, when the situation arises, all is lost to the carnal habits and behaviors that have been ingrained in my behavior over the years. </B><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Can you give us an example here?<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know I must and can be strong in Christ. Yet, as I neglected my wife and my role as a husband, I also neglected my service and relationship to God. <P>I know that it is all in the hands of God. Maybe I am trying to force the issue before I am ready. Maybe that statement was me just trying to avoid conflict again?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Cop out you mean?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I suppose I am reluctant to display authority over my wife or her actions. I know that her reaction will be negative. She will feel judged and cornered. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You ought not use any "authority" over your wife. She will rightly see you as controlling. You must lead by controlling yourself. Teaching by example. Once I gave ilmf a quote on the proper use of authority without coersion.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Wife is very withdrawn and refuses to speak about "us" issues with me or anyone else in her life. Parents, siblings, friends. She is completely shut down and bottled up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sounds like fear.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is it my duty as a husband to put a boundary on refusing to participate in the healing of the marriage? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>How can you do that without violating her rightful boundaries?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I guess I feel like I am robbing her of her freedom as BIM talks about. Even God himself waits patiently for us to seek him out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Exactly. God respects our free will. He will not violate us by coersion. We must give ourselves freely to Him.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am feeling desperate. Like if I don't do something to point our marriage in a new direction that the current path leads only to death for us. That is why I am so inclined to question my motives for boundaries. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The best intentions! Now learn the difference between Satan's tactics and God's methods.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Concerning prayer, Unfortunately we don't pray together. She actually seems a bit put off by my seeking out God again<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>She can't stop you. Just keep at it. This week my H FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER expressed thanks for his wife in prayer. And even asked for blessings for me!!! Seven years of praying and setting an example. And still counting... We haven't gotten past blessing the food at dinner yet, but look at where we were!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know that I will continue to walk with God be it alone or hand in hand with my wife who I love dearly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>That is right. Seek God. Praise, gratitude and adoration. Seek to perfect yourself, not your wife.<P>I read somewhere recently that the closer we get to God the less we notice/comment on/focus on other people's shortcomings.<P>Blessings.<P>Karenna<BR>

Sadwings,<P>I remember feeling just as confuses as you are. I just didn't know what it was God wanted me to do or not do. I know now that all He wanted me to do and still do is to seek Him. <P>I started a journal in August. I dedicated it to seeking Him and finding out what that means. As I worked through this O slowly became less concerned about what my h was or was not doing and better able to stay focused on God and my relationship to Him. I did have a few weeks of discouragement in the late fall, that ened one day in church when the HS brushed through me, and said that it was not all about my grumbling about things here on earth, but about Jesus Christ.<P>So, although the temptation is to dwell on the circumstances I am now able to se that none of it matters. All that matters is my relationship with Christ. I have surrendered it all to Christ. I have asked God to take all my dreams, desires and hopes. Those that should be taken I have asked Him to bury forever from my heart. And those He will return, I ha=ve asked Him to return in His time , in His way and for His glory. It feels good to have it all off my back.<P>It is a journey and it will take layer by layer to surrender. Spend more time in reading the Bible and prayer. Praise God in all things, and love your wife. Even if you can not act on that love, love her in your heart through God. Remember love is not a feeling it is an action. And whether she returns that love or not right now has nothing to do with it. God will return it when you are in the place He needs you to be and when He has your wife in the place He needs her to be.<P>It took me too many years to figure out what God meant when He said to me "Put me in the middle of Your marriage." What He was saying is "work on you through coming to know Me better, reading My word, praying in all things, praising Me for all I have given you; grace, nercy and hope. Then wait until I have finished my work. In the appropriate time I will return all things and make all things new in Me."<P>Waiting is hard, but not so bad once you give it to Him and just get on with doing your life as you lean on Him and not Your understanding and trust that He IS WORKING even if you see no evidence. Don't let those carnal thoughts and temptations dominate you. He will help you when you truely want to surrender them to Him.<BR>It is a jhourney and a process. Karenna and Sue B have given some excellent guidelines. It is up to you when you will begin to surrender it to Him. Oh, and God has us surrender not only the 'sinful things' but often the 'best things in our lives' so we do not make it an idol. And when we have it all in proper proportion He may return it to us or if not then give us new dreams, desires and hopes, from Him in His way! Anything from Him is better than anything we could possibly think we want. If He takes it away and does not return it, we really will not miss or have needed it.<P>No matter what His way is best, but getting to that point is very uncomfortable as we allow Him to tear down strongholds within us. But with those gone we are freeer to 'lean on His understanding and start to grow in His word and ways." \<BR> <BR>This I ahve seen in my life. My h is wtill with the ow and she is in town this week. But it doesn't matter because God is in charge and filling me with His love. I could not have said this so freely and lightly even 6 months ago.<P>We have to take the first step to show Him we truely want to surrender it all to Him and truely want His desires for us. Then He is soooo faithful to change us, and show us Hid glorious grace and desires for our lives. Oh, and He fulfills His promises to us, He can do no other.<P>Lord, touch this man's heart with Your love and grace. Show Him how richly You truely want to give Him life in You. Let him come to lean on Your understanding of all things and in all things. Let His heart be freed of temptation and longings that are not from You. Keep calling him to You. Lord let him surrender it all to YOu. Lord restore this man in a growing relationship with you and in Your timing restore this marriage in Your image and for Your glory. In Jesus name, Amen.

The boundary I would set if I were in your situation, SadWings, is to leave and take your children with you whenever she is flirting or overly friendly with her "platonic" boyfriend. And tell her that you will no longer permit your children to be present when she is with that family because of her inappropriate intimacy with the gentleman. Nor will you attend with her any small group function that family attends.<P>Your behavior will call hers into sharp focus. She will have to explain it to herself at least. She will understand that her behavior is seen as disrespectful by you. She may stay in denial outwardly for a long time. <P>When it begins to inconvenience her or become uncomfortable because of your limits on what you tolerate, then she may choose to attend counseling with you.<P>Meanwhile, pray with her and for her and Plan A. NO LOVEBUSTERS (disrespect especially).<P>Still praying for you!<P>Love and blessings,<P>Karenna<P>------------------<BR>A true friend is one who not only is willing to love us the way we are, but is able to leave us better than he found us.

Thank you to all for your responses.<P>I can feel the compassion in your words and yet you are strong enough to not hold back the truth. The truths sometimes sting, yet I believe that That stinging is the conviction to deal with the truth. <P>SueB wrote:Your struggle is not against your wife. She is not the enemy. She is hurt and has withdrawn so as not to be hurt further. <P>This is one of my struggles, lack of compassion. And this will apply as an example Karenna asked about. I want so much to be more compassionate towards my wife's struggle. See things from her perspective. Understand her viewpoint. Then I find myself judging her and condemning her in my heart. I have discovered that I like to think of myself as "the victim". And honestly I cant stand that. When I feel hurt, I start in with the "I don't deserve this" - "what did I do that was so terrible anyway" and "no matter what I do or how I behave I will never be able to live up to her unreal expectations". This type of thinking overcomes me at times and those are the times that I want to just throw in the towel. And honestly, as far as the expectations and perspective side of it. I have the most trouble with that. I have never felt like my wife ever felt like I was doing enough. Like she could always find fault in me no matter what. Granted, I am in no way perfect or even close and I have neglected her at times. But in all honesty, anyone who knows us would say that I have done the very best that I could to provide her with her needs and wants and desires. Or what I thought her needs wants and desires where is probably a better way to say it. I am also realizing that she had a responsibility to communicate to me if that wasn't true. She communicated displeasure with me through criticism and vague grumblings and dissatisfaction, but believe me the "I love you, but I'm not in live with you" speech was a big surprise for me. It came 6 months after I came to her with an open heart and expressed a desire to rededicate myself to her and our marriage. My worst fears were realized. I never felt like I was good enough for her and she finally realized it too. I guess I am just venting a little. I feel like she was my judge and jury and condemned me to being such a poor excuse for a husband and a man that I did not deserve her love anymore. I know that isn't true. I am a good man and a good husband and I have tried all of my life to make her happy and to be pleasing to her and to allow her freedom and understanding. I tried my best and now I feel like my best was never good enough. And never will be. Ok I guess this is a perfect example of what I was talking about. I begin to think negatively and the downward spiral begins. Lord, help me clear my mind of this and find peace in you.<P>Karenna said: "Cop out you mean?" Ouch. Yeah I guess that's the reality of it. I am just so unsure of what the right thing to do is. I don't want to run her off or push her away. I don't trust myself to make the best decisions and act properly I guess.<P>Karenna said: "You ought not use any "authority" over your wife. She will rightly see you as controlling. You must lead by controlling yourself. Teaching by example." I guess I said that wrong. I don't want to rule over her at all. I do want to lead my family in a godly way, which will mean displaying my displeasure with some of her actions. To her this will be seen as authority and blaming and pressure and control. Is there really any other way to let someone know that they are hurting you and themselves and the ones they love? The kids.<P>I think alot of what hw and everyone is saying is the direction I need. I guess maybe I want more control than I am willing to admit. It hurts to realize that, and it hurts to know that that sense of false security that once existed in your marriage is no longer there. Security not based on control, but confidence, knowing that your spouse would be considerate of your feelings enough to control there own behavior. That trust that you knew they had your best interest at heart. <P>Kareena, <P>I am examining my heart and mind for the right thing to do about the subject you brought up in your last post. I can say that we have had less contact with them over this last month just by chance and circumstance and it has been a real blessing. I am praying about it. I don't want to alienate myself from her. But then again, telling her my feelings about it has not worked either. Don't I step on her boundaries by choosing her friends for her? If she believes it is only a friendship and every one else does also then what right do I have to determine the thoughts of her heart and condemn her based on my perspective? Just some thoughts<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SadWings:<BR><B>But then again, telling her my feelings about it has not worked either. Don't I step on her boundaries by choosing her friends for her? If she believes it is only a friendship and every one else does also then what right do I have to determine the thoughts of her heart and condemn her based on my perspective? Just some thoughts</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>That is not what I said. Leaving a bad situation is Actively setting a boundary because she is free to stay. reread<P>You will not choose her friends or police her thoughts or condemn her feelings. That would be evil "controling" behavior.<P>You must demand that you be treated with respect as a husband in public. I hope you do have occasion to meet the OM again soon so you can say that you <B>choose not to stay and witness their public displays of affection for each other.</B> Just walk out and don't leave your children in such an environment. <P>That does not "control her, judge or condemn her or pick her friends." If her reaction is that it tells you that she is EMOTIONALLY FUSED. She chooses her reaction to the stimulous of you calling out her behavior. <P>She is always free to modify her behavior with the friend to be or appear less intimate than it is. Then she won't offend you or anyone else and can still have the "friend."<P>Meanwhile, live as if it is a full-blown physical and emotional affair. Whether her actions and feelings for the OM are what most would consider an A is irrelevant to you. What matters is that she does not care about your feelings. Her OM is more important to her than you are. And she is in deep denial so she won't have to give up anything. Your mutual friends who side with her on the OM frienship do not have to feel your pain of alienation. She didn't make vows with them, did she?<P>Just don't give any respect to their relationship as long as she refuses to work with you on your marriage. Call it out. Shine the floodlights. Open it to the light of the noonday sun and let everyone see what she has chosen to do. Don't FORBID anything! What a lovebuster that would be!! But the natural and logical consequences of her decisions must be allowed to flow.<P>Are you following this?<p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited February 12, 2001).]

Karenna,<BR>I do follow you in theory. Implementation seems to be my hang up. Just logistically speaking, its hard to leave when you rode together. Don't want to abandon her someplace. <P>You wrote: "That does not "control her, judge or condemn her or pick her friends." If her reaction is that it tells you that she is EMOTIONALLY FUSED. She chooses her reaction to the stimulus of you calling out her behavior." This was the reaction that I perceived when discussing my feelings with her about it. A general confusion about why I had a problem with it. After discussing it one time she said "It's kind of like your parents when you are growing up, they can tell you what they think about it but nobody can pick your friends for you." That has been several months ago.<P>I am a little cautious right now because things seem to be working out in the wash so to speak a little bit. We have seen the other couple much less lately and the times that we have seen them the bothersome behaviors don't seem to be as pronounced as before. I think there may be some headway there. I guess what I am saying is there may be a chance that my wife is dealing with some of these issues now based on the new evidence and I hate to rock the boat during what I hope is the re-learning curve. <P>You wrote: "Call it out. Shine the floodlights. Open it to the light of the noonday sun and let everyone see what she has chosen to do." This I did back in August. If you search my post history you will find that back in August is when things became more than I could bare emotionally and I confronted my wife with the accusation of them being involved in an A. The next day is when she told me her true feelings about our relationship. I say all of this to let you know that it has already been brought into the light before that event with the event in august and even since then. Yet, each time I am left feeling like the bad guy for being uncomfortable. I still to this day ask myself if I am uncomfortable with the relationship because of some baggage that I carry. I do know that I have never been uncomfortable with any of my wifes relationships before male or female. Because I have always trusted that I was first in her life. I guess as it became increasingly obvious that that was no longer the case, then I began to question. And she had displayed a lot of new behaviors that I had never seen before with this OM. As I type this I just feel ashamed thinking about it and I dont know why. I think jealousy is an ugly emotion and I am not used to it still. I cant help but question why I am feeling like this. If it is a log in my own eye I want to know it and I am sure that part of me would rather blame myself than beleive the reality of what it would mean if they really had a more than just friends feeling for one another.<P>Just rambling. sorry.