I could really use some input here. In many ways, I feel that I've grown over the last year, and in other ways I feel like I'm stuck at the same crossroads as when I started visiting MB. I spend a lot of time in prayer, and each time I get a major clue, I try to implement it into my daily life. I started tithing in January, and income increased enough to cover bare basics (but not enough to touch the mountain of debt that's accumulated). I fasted last week and I now feel more inner strength than before. I have a sense of peace, and I know where that comes from! <P>Here's my dilemma. I think we all pretty much agree that we get what we tolerate. We need to set boundaries to remove things from our lives that we find undesirable. And God hates divorce. But even the Bible allows for divorce under certain circumstances, and I'm trying to figure out if it applies to me. <P>I've described my marriage as dysfunctional many times in this forum. It's more than dysfunctional though. I am suffering from verbal and emotional abuse. My counsellor agrees. It didn't take her long to see it. (took me a bit longer) <P>One of the ways I've suffered is through celibacy. When we took vows to forsake all others, I had no idea that it would include me. He has no desire for me, and to my knowledge, he feels the same way about the rest of the human race. Well, maybe that's exaggerating, but what I'm getting at is infidelity is a non-issue. <P>What I want to know is this: if I am forsaken along with all the others, does that mean my H has broken that wedding vow?

This is an interesting question. As I understand, my husband is not supposed to deny me physically, according to the Bible. I am still responsible to stay faithful to my marriage, though and so is my husband. I would definitely pray specifically for release of that anger in my H and wisdom in dealing wisely as God wants. I have to be willing too. Have you actually said "God I know You don't want me to do this. But I really want to do this- please help me to become willing to do what You want." Have you gotten that honest with God, if that is in fact how you feel? Remember He knows our hearts....

I feel very confused when it comes to figuring out what God wants me to do. When I think about having a place of my own, I get a very good feeling. I want very much to be released from a bad situation. I'm not confident in my ability to distinguish between wishful thinking and doing what would please God. <P>Pursuing a future that doesn't include my H seems inconsistent with what the Bible says. At the same time, we get what we tolerate, and staying with my H is the equivalent of tolerating something I can't take anymore. I believe he needs professional help to become a fully functional human being, and he's content with the status quo. Well, maybe he's content, maybe he's not. Perhaps it's more accurate to say he prefers the status quo over seeking out professional help. I'm very confused. I am contributing to the status quo by staying.

dbl post! <p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited July 11, 2001).]

There isn't anywhere in the vows that it says you must always live with him. A separation could be a very reasonable consequence of his very unreasonable positions. Ala Plan B. From what you have described here, he has been violating the covenent seriously for a very long time.

Thank you for coming out of the woodwork for me Karenna. I'm always glad to hear from you. I think about you often and wish you all the best. <P>I do believe a plan b is a good option for me. Our financial stranglehold is still with us. In a way I feel like plan b is nothing more than pipedream. But still, I get a good feeling when I think about it, and I believe in miracles. Divine intervention is definitely a requisite here! Pray for me ladies. <P>Tnt, if you're reading this, I tried to post on your thread and it didn't go through. Oh! The boundaries thread! I hope it's backed up in more than one place. Maybe we should pray that the computer running this forum doesn't crash and burn.

Something's just been revealed to me Heart:<BR>Stop being double-minded. Don't be afraid, because God has not given you a confused mind. He gave you a mind of power, love and sound thinking. I was in a tormentuous relationship for 6 years, thinking the same exact thoughts you think... I stayed, I tolerated and I was like, "God I know you want me to stay with my H. He will change.." To this day, that ex is still where he is. I had to gather my courage and leave that relationship, since in my situation it boiled down to he was not doing his part in our "marriage" and I knew God did not want me feeling this way. I was responsible for getting away from that treatment. When I realized I was being double-minded and I made a decision in my faith, God followed through and covered me. But I had to make up my mind first, and just trust.... Just something to think about.

I'm being double minded? I'm not sure I understand. If I catch your drift, you're saying that I'm staying because I have a belief that it's the right thing to do, while at the same time I am living with something that God really doesn't want for me?

I found the boundary thread and brought it to the top for you. <P>I was at a plateau with MB, until I began to understand boundaries. <P>I think God hates divorce, and will give you the skills to deal with your marriage - in love. Hang in there lonesome heart, I've been where you are at - "plateau" and it does get better.<P>TnT

Bingo! That was exactly what I experienced. You just have to believe that the answer you seek from God has already been given to you, and do the next right thing in faith.

I must be under attack! I had a post almost ready to send and my browser crashed! Where was I....<P>Thank you tnt and ymon for hanging with me here. When I found MB last year, I was actually beginning an internet search for divorce information. All this time I've had an underlying feeling that my marriage is beyond repair. Meanwhile, I have learned and grown and become a better person thanks to y'all. I have found great comfort in prayer and finally I feel like veils are being lifted from my eyes. I feel ready to move to the next step. <P>I've been reading Boundaries and found some nuggets that weren't in Boundaries in Marriage (or I missed them). I learned earlier this year that the Bible says it's ok to ask for things. I asked and asked and asked! I didn't realize until last week that I have been disrespecting God's boundaries. He has a right to say no, and I've responded to his no's with anger, disappointment, sadness, whining, pleading, everything but "ok, you know what's best for me." I've also seen more clearly the bountiful blessings He has already bestowed upon me. He has carried me a long way. <P>There was also a reference in Boundaries to work that God does and work that I do. I'm still fuzzy on what's in my department. I am also confused by what I see as a conflict. I know God hates divorce. That's part of what's kept me here to this day. I also believe He wants me to be in a fully functional marriage, and that's not what I have. <P>I had a long talk with Him last night. I made a decision that what I want is a separation. I have no means to carry it out. I am completely dependent on Him to provide that for me if it's the right thing for me. Again, I'm unsettled because I know there's work for me to do, and I'm not sure what it is. I took ymon's suggestion and simply made a decision and consulted with God. I believe that part of "my work" is to stick with the decision. <P>I also took a new a look at what I truly want, redefined my priorities, acknowledged that I am unworthy of His blessings past present and future. (and then asked for blessings anyway; am I wacko or what?) I've made many mistakes, and I probably have a lot of consequences to pay before I get any more blessings. But I believe my heart is softer than it was before. It's in a better place, and I want an even better place still. So, that's where I am. <P>Am I on track ladies?

All I can say is, "You go girl!" I can tell the difference in your spirit just through your message... I am experiencing that too. In my marriage, I recently have come into some spiritual warfare, that I did not realize how seriously I had to take it. My H has been right there, steadily praying and remaining patient. But he would bring things to my attention that I know God has been wanting me to look at as well. I had to make some choices and learn that there are some things I will think and feel that I have to defend from my self-pity, my resentments and bad memories. This is a new day that I have been given. I have been instructed to choose life and not sadness or death. That power from God is real. Now I am enjoying having joy and peace and meditating on what I hear from the Holy Spirit. You are getting there as well. It gets better, Heart. Keep your eyes up and your hands open...lol

Hi heart<BR>I just read your post on hw's thread. (where is everyone at?...) If nothing is impossible with God, then why couldn't he give you a H with a kind, considerate, caring heart for you, his wife? These are the type of prayers I had to build my faith up in God's power to pray. I do deserve a H who treats me the way God treats me. My H is a reflection of God, or at least he should be. Why would you think you do not deserve that? I went through that thinking too. You remain in my prayers...lol

You give me such encouragement ymon. I appreciate your posts so much! I focused on my H so very much that I really lost track of me. I promised myself at the beginning that I would love this man no matter what. I believed the only right way to do that was to stay with him through thick and thin. I do deserve a H with a kind, considerate, caring heart. I think maybe he has one hidden away where no one can find it. I searched for it a long time. I hoped he would reveal it to me, but he chooses not to. <P>So I'm in a classic state of withdrawal right now. Things are very quiet around here. I have no idea how, if or when this separation I've requested will pan out. Even the creditor calls have slacked off. They're probably putting liens on my house. I try not to worry about it. I could be a better steward of what I have. Everything I have is what God has given me. Had I known that years ago, I might not be in such a pickle right now. But I try to be thankful even for my difficulties. They are what will make me a better person. I'd like to graduate to the rewards class please.

Graduate to the rewards class? Oh, I MUST remember that one. You are a hoot.<BR>Creditors? You are telling my story. I still have yet to be able to open a checking account, and I am not yet able to rent an apartment in my own name, because of a debt I still owe. You are doing very well not to worry, but just to focus on what is at hand TODAY. And today, I choose life and to see this hope and future God has for me. It really does make it easier to clearly see His provision to my next need. I take the bus to my job, and so doing I pass many churches. I have been seeing so many of the signs saying start with that mustard-seed faith. You mentioned that you believe that your H has that heart, that love inside of him for you. God knows that, and perhaps this is why He chose you to be his helpmeet. At times, I have to believe in us when my H does not. And vice-versa. But what you do is hold tight to that belief, and nourish it. Let your mind be on those things that would encourage you, and keep giving those concerns to God, stay prayerful. Your faith is already greatly increasing, I told you I can see that difference. Since we started talking, and you had the first questions about fasting, I was inspired to give up my complaining. Really! If I wished I had more money, or it was hot while I'm waiting on the bus, or any other thing, I just would not say, or even think, anything negative AND I would tell God thanks for being able to have a job or even simple bus fare, etc. Well, I have been on this verbal/mental fast for nearly 2 weeks now. Heart, I asked my H if he noticed any changes. (He does not know I am fasting.) He told me that my attitude has been totally different. Even what ever has irritated me, I don't hold it in, or withdraw from him. He said he can see that I am really more in tune with how God wants me to be, that I am actually calmer. What I am saying is, reality is just that. But it helped me too not to dwell on what is gone, to remember my glass is half-full, and what is more, I can fill it up again. I just have to have the proper focus. You are getting there Heart. This was one way I got there too. And it is still working! I will keep you posted on these events. I just wanted you to know what you started! As well as how you sharing your pain and solutions has blessed my life....LOL<p>[This message has been edited by ymon (edited July 24, 2001).]

Hi Lonesome,<P>our computer access has been out for several weeks so I haven´t been able to post. I´m at the library now using the internet. Just want to say I´m praying for you... for wisdom and understanding. You are not alone. Often when I don´t know all of what to do I ask for the Next step - the one next thing to do. <P>You are not alone. Praying for you...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ymon:<BR>Let your mind be on those things that would encourage you, and keep giving those concerns to God, stay prayerful. Your faith is already greatly increasing, I told you I can see that difference. Since we started talking, and you had the first questions about fasting, I was inspired to give up my complaining. Really! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I guess I've come a long way if I actually inspired someone here! Thanks ymon for telling me that. If I were to look up my original posts, I would probably see someone who whines and gripes too much. I didn't used to be like that. Instead of me rubbing off on my H, he rubbed off on me and wore me down. <P>I started a part-time job yesterday. H actually showed enough interest, although brief, to ask how my day went. Then he shopped AND cooked dinner. I don't know if he did that to make sure that he'd eat, or if he thought about me too. I'd like to think he is softening, but at the same time his history clearly demonstrates that self interest rules. I suppose it doesn't matter much. I continue to have a sense of peace. My request to God for a separation still stands. I've had a lot of no's when it comes to my prayers. I have a feeling this time it'll be different. <P>SLW, it's so good to hear from you. I was wondering where you went! Keep praying for me ladies. I think it's working! And thank you for checking on me. <P>

Well Hi there stranger!<BR>I am so glad that you have received work that will help alleviate the mental and financial heaviness. I hope you got to read the post I put in hw's thread about what is going on in my life because of prayers from you and the other supportive members on this forum helping me in my time of need. H is cooking and talking now, huh? And it is terrific that you are still focused on God's peace that passes all understanding. It does get greater. Seems to me that our Father has honored your sacrifice in your fasting. You all are still in my prayers.

Hi Lonesome,<P><BR>I know it has taken me sometime to reply to this post. I have really had to sit back and think about this.<P>Though Tony does not punish me by withholding sex he does punish me in many other ways. Tony will say he wants to spend time with me but then when I go to the same room he is in he will get up and leave. He was also very verbally abusive towards me for the longest time. I still have issues with this. The verbal abuse coupled with the affairs really have caused my entire since of self to plumit below zero. <P>Like your H Tony has withheld his love from me. I have been convienced the only reason Tony wanted to be with me was because he wanted to move away from his parents but was not willing to live on his own. Extra added bonus was he could have sex with me. This is a really depressing thought. Tony swares that this is not the truth but after all the abuse I have faced by him I can not shake this feeling.<P>The only thing that has saved this relationship is me setting up boundries. I have followed Charles Dobson's Love must be tough guidline. It really has helped. Tony now is by far more loving towards me. More considerate of my feelings and now knows what I will and will not tolerate. <P>It was very difficult to implament this. I really tried marraige builders Plan A/ Plan B but I was just taken advantage of even more than before. I really believe that this site is benificial to all involved but sometimes one has to set up boundries.<P>Now onto the no sex issue. I wish I could have found the passage but it does state in the bible that a husband and wife need to take care of each other needs. This means sex. I am sure some other wonderful woman knows where to find it. I believe this. Your husband has a duty to fulfill your sexual needs. If he is unwilling to do this what would you be willing to do in response?<P>I do feel for you. Tony has never denied me sex but he has and still to some degree denies me his love and tenderness. It hurts. It also causes me to not want to recipicate to him due to the neglect. Our hearts are like gardens. With no attention they die and the weeds take over. <P>((((((lonesome))))))) I am here for you.

Hi Pah! Hurry and go to I Corinthians, chapter 7, verse 2-5. Paul is teaching on marriage here. Apparently, there were things going on in that time similar to what we face in our marriages today. When he says to the couples "stop depriving one another", he is referring to sex. God knows our natures, and except for fasting, marrieds should be intimate with one another, this is one privilege we have as heirs together in God's grace of life.<BR>So be comforted and be willing to ask God for this willingness to be submissive where it is necessary. He has already shown you boundaries, you said yourself that have changed things in your H. I rejoice with you, and please know our Father has more to reveal to you. You are on the right track stay encouraged. I am going through something sexual with my H now. Basically, here lately it is as if the more he works, the more sex he wants. I am going on 8 months pregnant, and have already given 2 early births because my spouse wanted sex all the time. I pray nightly, for God to help me be willing to share that part of me with him. I really do not have the desire with my body changes and all and just when I think he is exhausted, he wants to be with me. So be comforted, because right now I wish my H didn't want any sex for about 2 months! God knows best though. Keep me posted.