My H is on another of those one nighter out of town trips. Everything is just like all the other times he's gone away; telling me until what time the meeting is running to, who he is with, will call me and tell me where he's staying...nothing to alert me to the fact that she was there, just like the times when in reality she has been. How do I cope with that? I watched him pack his bag last night and immediately went back to when he was packing his bag the last time he went away (and she was there). THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE...so how I can I trust? How can I hear him tell me that he's going out to dinner with so and so and not want to tell him, "Yeah, isn't that what you told me last time? Why would you be telling me the truth this time?" IT FRUSTRATES ME SO MUCH NOT TO REALLY KNOW WHAT WENT ON BETWEEN THEM!! I feel I need to believe one thing or the other, but when I try to believe his version, all the reason in the world of why that can't be true pop into my head and when I then try to believe that a physical affair did take place, I rush to try to convince myself that it didn't b/c I guess in reality, unlike what I've told him, I would not be able to accept it.<BR>I believe it's going to be a very long night!!

Sadmv,<BR>So how did you respond to your fears? Sure, they are legitimate, but your words and actions you use to deal with them make a difference.<P>What more can your H do at this point in time? What would make you feel safe?<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Unfortunately, I know there is nothing he can do right now to make me feel safe, to make me believe what he says...I just feel like have nothing to hold on to. I feel like I am floating in mid air and hoping to God that I don't fall flat on my face again. Before I used to feel safe when we were together and now even then I wonder what he may be thinking about, is he thinking about her? He tells me that I am obsessing about her. That it is not about her, that it is about him and ultimately us. That it wasn't her, it was just the concept (whatever that means), that she just happens to be the easy avenue to that "fun, getting away from the hum drum life" feeling he yearns for. But in my eyes, in order for her to be the subject and cause of so much turmoil and pain in my (our) life for the past year and a half, where there was never this sort of problem (that I knew of)...for her to be the reason why I will never feel the same way about my marriage and my life with him, for her to be the reason why I will never be able to look at him the same way again, for her to be the reason that my heart will be scarred forever...that makes her pretty damn important...not a easy convenient avenue.<P>How I've dealt with these feelings, I haven't yet because I haven't talked to him yet and he hasn't confirmed that he actually has to stay over (it wasn't confirmed but it looked that way). I'm pretty sure that I won't become unglued, but I will probably share my feelings about how unsettled I feel with him.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>That it wasn't her, it was just the concept (whatever that means), that she just happens to be the easy avenue to that "fun, getting away from the hum drum life" feeling he yearns for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Then he's just told you what you can do to lessen his "need" for this OW.<P>Ding!<P><I><B>RECREATIONAL NEEDS!!</B></I><P>Do you two do anything fun together? If not, you need to start. One of the first things I did in my "Plan A" was come up with things we could do together. Dragon Lady is a "party girl" -- likes to drink, party, etc. I'm not. H isn't. But we were sitting at home ALL THE TIME, ALL WEEKEND, EVERY WEEKEND. I knew that H likes to take early AM hikes on the weekend, so I suggested we go. We'd go for a hike, then out to brunch. That, more than anything else I did, seemed to make a difference. H works very hard, and puts in long hours. I try, most weekends, to schedule SOMETHING we can do together. If he has to go to work, we go out to breakfast first, and then often I go with him.<P>You already know that all the reassurance in the world will not convince you. So you have to be pro-active about what you can, and that is YOU.<P>Your H knows that this woman's presence upsets you, and in his own lunkhead way, he's trying to "protect" you. By nagging him, you're reinforcing his "trapped, no fun" feelings.<P>The best way to deal with them is to put some fun back into your lives and into your marriage. If these one-nighters are for leisure rather than business, I'll bet he stops them once he starts having more fun with you.

Sadmv,<BR> I don't have any help for you; I just wanted to tell you that I know how you feel. I'm positive that <B>something</B> happened between my H and Cafe Woman, even though he says nothing <B>ever</B> happened. Yeah....well, for 13 years he was telling me that he must have picked up the STD off the toilet seat....but, I'm supposed to believe him now, just because he finally admitted to screwing the STD Tramp?<P> Mine was at his hunting camp this weekend. Friday night was OK; I went out to the bar, and Cafe Woman was there with her son and daughter. All day Saturday was OK, because he called and said that he had our grandson there with him. I went down and picked up my grandson just before dark, and Saturday night, I kept wondering if he was still at the camp or out meeting somebody (Cafe Woman or somebody else). It didn't help that one of his hunting buddies (who is also a cheater) had just gotten out of the shower and looked too darned spiffy for the camp. I kept wondering if H went anywhere after I left. It would be so easy for H to cheat from there. <BR> But, anyway, to express doubt is a lovebuster, and I don't want him to feel resentful because he can't go to the camp. So, what am I to do? Grin and bear it, I guess, and keep my eyes and ears open.

sadmv,<BR> Hoping my reply may help you get through this scarey time. You sounded just like me! My H also had the same behavior before, during and after the affair. For H it was sneaking off early to work to see OW and phoning OW at work. Saddly he called me also at work to see how I was doing bla bla. H must of missed a lot of work on the phone so much! SO when the affair ended and he still called as usual I was floored! How are you to know if H is honest now? But what I've learned is that H was in LALA LAND but loved me while there. He was confused and unable to see all the pain and distance he was creating (didn't want to see it--very selfish time)Maybe your H never stopped loving you? Is he willing to discuss the details of the affair? Are you prepared to hear the ugly story? I asked and he told untill I got too sick to hear any more. It was the unknown that drove me crazy & now it's the knowing that haunts me ( know what they did, what was said,etc.) Why did he feel drawn to her? That was important so we could KNOW how to prevent another affair! Remember a physical affair can be just as painful as a emotional. I hated the fact that she would say to H "I would do any thing for you!" Like I couldn't! He was getting his high from her emotionally and sexually and they both hurt. Let H know your fears and make a plan so that you don't go crazy during these trips. My H was more understanding of my behavior when I explianed my fears. It's been 8mths and I still feel scared and insecure. It gets better for me when I share my feelings with H(then he sees the pain better)if not at least here on the forum.<BR>Take Care,<BR> BECCA

sadmv,<BR> Hoping my reply may help you get through this scarey time. You sounded just like me! My H also had the same behavior before, during and after the affair. For H it was sneaking off early to work to see OW and phoning OW at work. Saddly he called me also at work to see how I was doing bla bla. H must of missed a lot of work on the phone so much! SO when the affair ended and he still called as usual I was floored! How are you to know if H is honest now? But what I've learned is that H was in LALA LAND but loved me while there. He was confused and unable to see all the pain and distance he was creating (didn't want to see it--very selfish time)Maybe your H never stopped loving you? Is he willing to discuss the details of the affair? Are you prepared to hear the ugly story? I asked and he told untill I got too sick to hear any more. It was the unknown that drove me crazy & now it's the knowing that haunts me ( know what they did, what was said,etc.) Why did he feel drawn to her? That was important so we could KNOW how to prevent another affair! Remember a physical affair can be just as painful as a emotional. I hated the fact that she would say to H "I would do any thing for you!" Like I couldn't! He was getting his high from her emotionally and sexually and they both hurt. Let H know your fears and make a plan so that you don't go crazy during these trips. My H was more understanding of my behavior when I explianed my fears. It's been 8mths and I still feel scared and insecure. It gets better for me when I share my feelings with H(then he sees the pain better)if not at least here on the forum.<BR>Take Care,<BR> BECCA

Becca,<BR>I have no details about the affair because he adamantly maintains that there is no affair to speak of. Therefore, I am left to just wonder about everything I do know (them being on out of town trips together, an afternoon long lunch date that ended in a kiss a year and a half ago, etc, etc) mixed in with all the lies I have been told in order to cover all these incidents up and analyze all the scenarios daily. There's the "Of course he had an affair, what am I stupid?"scenario and the "Well, maybe it's somewhat how he says, that there is nothing sexual about it (even though he admitted to me in a rage once during an argument that he wanted to f**k her, but she didn't give him the time of day, that she was happily married, unlike him) just an escape to have a good time with co-workers (there was always a 3rd male w/ them on these trips) and yes, that he risked taking her along (she's a subordinate...he's a manager) even though he knew it was not acceptable to me (to put it mildly) b/c of how unhappy and bored he was at home (I never sensed any unhappiness, bored and hum drum, yes, I felt that too) and that the fact that she was good looking probably made the whole thing much more enticing" scenario. <BR>Do you follow me?<P>I've already spoke to him tonight and he's at a Friday's with all the guys watching MNF. He has obviously had a lot to drink and I feel like LOVEBUSTING about it. Does he think he only has to change his behavior when it specifically has to do w/her? Obviously. <BR>I have to admit that I am having SUCH a hard time w/this Plan A stuff. It's so fake for me to be so nice to him sometimes when what I really want to do is ring his neck and kick him the h**l out of the house...yet I smile and stroke his hair and hold his hand (trying to be that affectionate wife he misses). I am so angry at him right now, I guess since he's not around trying to be Mr. Wonderful right now, I really feel it now. <P>It really pisses me off that right before this whole thing blew up, I was reading posts on a forum where people shared their experiences with their 2 mth old babies, and because of him and this woman, I am now spending my free time, sharing and reading posts in a infidelity forum. Talk about a different mind set! And I thought I had problems with my colicky baby...WOW what a wake up call!<P>Please keep me form lovebusting the crap out of him tonight when he calls me slurring his words and what not...OR SHOULD I REALLY LET HIM HAVE IT??

sadmv,<BR>You should always select your words and actions based on your long term goals rather than the feelings you are having at the moment. That doesn't mean "stuff" everything, it just means use communication productively to accomplish rather than diminish your chances of success.<P>I have to ask, how have you managed anger in the past? Have you always had a temper and acted impulsively or is this isolated to this situation.<P>I have plan A'd almost everyone my whole life. It is unnatural for me not to be totally in control, calm and ever so nice. Before I came to this site, I was in plan A. When I discovered the affair (long story) I had to wait til he got out of the shower, plus our kids were in the house. I spoke just above a whisper and I knew I had to save my family and I would if it killed me. <P>I understand your anger at the unknown. I'm not sure I understand your proclaimation that you will never look at him the same way, etc. It is almost that you have already passed judgment on your marriage and it is doomed, yet you seem to be staying in the marriage.<P>If you recommit, then you really need to commit to doing what is necessary to overcome. Your H needs to do what he can to make your marriage safe and to be patient and understanding while you regain trust. I'm not sure you have any intention of allowing him to do that. It is almost like you have resigned yourself to an angry bitter marriage...and that I don't quite understand.<P>If you have a history of anger, then maybe you should consider some counseling. <P>If you want your marriage to thrive, then you both need to be on the same team.<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13