Just asking for some prayers for me to keep my cool...<P>Tonight I have to call my W to arrange for younger son to <B>not</B> visit her on her weekend... Son was invited to a BD party... this from the family that helps watch my son on those days I have to travel greater distances to work... This is the easy one.<P>Then... I just checked my phone bill for the last month W was home... over $300.00 to what I believe to be a not so local ISP. She also had and was using "NetZero" which would have cost $0.00... but she dished out <B>over $300.00 of my and my kids money for what?</B>...<P>And every time she comes to pick up the kids... all she says to me is "...I what what's($$$) due me(W)..." and "... I will discuss nothing until all the money is given to me(W)..."<P>Guys...<BR>Pray for me not to Love Bust... <BR>I told my older son... that "I will tell her I forgive her"... and he nearly flipped out in disbelief... saying to me "sue her!... sue her!"<BR>I hope she doesn't goad me into anything... Like most waywards... she knows how to push my buttons...<P>This after my attorney, today, informed me that extensions to delay my divorce(state mandated "Early Settlement Program") can not go on indefinitely... maybe I can get my last extension up to March 2000... yuck!<P>calm down Jim... calm down Jim...<BR>deep breaths... deep breaths...<BR>I tell you guys to do it... maybe if I just listen to myself?...<P>Jim

WHOA! Goodluck! And just remember it is only money! Your sanity is worth more!

Hey, Jim. I'm glad you're a good and strong man 'cause this is a tough one.<P>I know you can do it. Just coach yourself like you coach all of us!!! <P>Good luck.<P>Lori

Jim,<P>You really DO have the stength not to let her push your buttons. Believe me, she WILL TRY. Foolish woman thinks the money and the OM are going to bring her long-term happiness instead of her dear family - YOU and those KIDS!!! Her priorities are where the rest of her head is .... up her twoit!! (being nice!) <P>Praying for you, Jim. You CAN stay calm....<P>Roll Me Away<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Jim you got my prayers. I know it is so hard not lb with they push those little buttons. And they do know how to do that. I can't remember what money does she thinks you owe her? Maybe you should have your attorney give her a statement of the money she owes you. Or what you have spent on her. Subtract it from the amount she thinks she is due. Maybe that would stop her for a little while. Tkae those deep cleansing breaths. Hang tough {{{HUGS}}}<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

NSR -- Thoughts and prayers Jim. You'll get through this OK.<P>God Bless

Hi NSR -<P>My prayers are with you .....<P>You can most definitely do this!!!! You have learned so much about how all this works...now put it into play!!!<P>Be logical, firm and loving...she will probably fly on her fantasy broom with the screeching....you just stand there lovingly and then restate what you've said calmly...<P>You can do it!!! It's the right way to handle it and might just give her a nice jolt instead of her being able to get to you!!<P>We're with you in spirit....pretend we are standing next to you!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Jim,<BR>You can do it. You know what needs to be done by heart as you have "preached/lectured/reminded" all of us here.<P>Best of luck and God Bless<BR>Bob

Jim, how did the call go????<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Ok guys...<P>It went as well as could be expected... <P>She said she would think of letting our younger son go to the BD party! She will let me know on Friday when she picks them up for this weekend's visitation.<P>Then...<BR>when I brought up the telephone bill... it was straight to the same story line...<BR>Sounds just like a tape recording...<BR>Same words too...<BR>Like a brainwashed prisoner of war...<BR>"...I what what's due me first..." and<BR>"...I will discuss nothing, including any telephone bills, until all the money is given to me..."<P>I told her I forgave her for the $300.00+ telephone bill... (... it was the only time she said F--- --U... thank heavens)<P>Yes... all she cares about is the <B>$MONEY$</B>.<BR>She wants the rest of the balance of 1/2 of the equity of house ($4,000... since I gave her $10,000 for her original move out... dummy me) and 1/2 of US Savings bonds... + a bunch of miscellaneous stuff... (outlined in the draft Property Settlement Agreement(PSA).) BTW she kept her word on nothing in the PSA... but the "visitation" schedule. She won't discuss anything in the PSA... I want to discuss issue involving the kids... but it just isn't happening. I really want to avoid having courts decide everything... what a waste of time/effort/money... stress!<P>I still will keep going on with my <B>Plan A</B>. I still will be praying for the decision of moving to a Plan B in Jan/Feb... I guess when the extensions run out... I might have no choice...<P>I will ask my attorney... how can I keep the restraining orders against OM... and still extend/suspend the divorce. I hope I can get some good news on that front.<P>Thanks for your prayers tonight...<BR>It could have gone so much worse...<BR>LB was at an absolute mimimun!<P>Prayers... and a lit candle for you all tonight! <P>Jim

Jim,<P>This poem by Rudyard Kipling has been one of the things that have kept me going. I don't know if it will help, hopefully it will.<P>IF<P>If you can keep your head when all about you<P>Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,<P>If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you<P>But make allowance for their doubting too,<P>If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,<P>Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,<P>Or being hated, don't give way to hating,<P>And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: <P>If you can dream - and not make dreams your master,<P>If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;<P>If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster<P>And treat those two impostors just the same;<P>If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken<P>Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,<P>Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,<P>And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools: <P>If you can make one heap of all your winnings<P>And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,<P>And lose, and start again at your beginnings<P>And never breath a word about your loss;<P>If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew<P>To serve your turn long after they are gone,<P>And so hold on when is nothing in you<P>Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!" <P>If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,<P>Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch,<P>If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;<P>If all men count with you, but none too much,<P>If you can fill the unforgiving minute<P>With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,<P>Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,<P>And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! <P>You will be in my prayers. Be strong. Keep the faith, God is in control even when we can't seeit.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Jim,<P>It's late and I posted you a note on RMA's thread check it out.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

HI JIM,<BR> Hang in there buddy. YOU are the KING of the no LB's I'm pray'in I'm pray'n!!!! FRANK

NSR;<P>It seems strange posting to you. You always seem to be the one who is totally together, helping other's and giving advice.<BR>Just know that my prayers are with you and your family at this time.<BR>In His hands...In His time...In His love.<BR> [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<BR>

Thank you...<P>Bill...<BR>Very Inspirational... I loved the poem.<BR>Thanks for the reply on RMA's post too!<P>Frank...<BR>You know I appreciate those prayers.<BR>There isn't <B>one</B> I don't thank God for!<P>Nicole...<BR>Ohhhh Nicole... In His hands...In His time...In His love... in all of us!<BR>Yes... I am putting myself more and more into Him completely!<P>I am learning like all of you...<BR>As time goes on... it's not just what the book(s) say...<BR>It's the support we give each other that counts...<BR>Even more so... I'm coming to the realization that...<P><B>My <I>spouse</I> is not the entirity of my <I>life</I>!</B> Not now!<BR><B>The <I>will</I> of the Father isn't necessarily that my marriage heals and rebuilds!</B> Not yet!<BR>Knowing all of <B>you</B>, is part of His will... now!<BR>Helping <B>others</B>, is part of His will... now!<BR>Taking care of my <B>kids</B>, is part of His will... now!<BR>Growing <B>myself</B>, is part of His will... now!<P>I'm <B>not</B> going to <B>stop</B> trying to fix/rebuild my marriage...<BR>But... if I obsess about it...<BR>if I put all my effort into it...<BR>I lose... and the will of the Father loses too!<P>I've been told that I have a great deal of patience... must be the will of the Father!<P>Prayers to all who ask... <BR>I'll ask for <B>all</B> of you too!<P>Jim

NSR:<P>A friendly reminder:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>when I brought up the telephone bill... it was straight to the same story line...Sounds just like a tape recording...Same words too...Like a brainwashed prisoner of war...<BR>"...I what what's due me first..." and "...I will discuss nothing, including any telephone bills, until all the money is given to me..."<P>I told her I forgave her for the $300.00+ telephone bill... (... it was the only time she said F--- --U... thank heavens)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There's a lovebuster there...<P>Ask yourself why you brought up the phone bill issue??? If you were planning on paying it, then you didn't need to "forgive" her for it. You could have just paid it and said nothing (no lovebusters there). Or you could have told her that the bill came and you paid it (and dropped it---very little chance for lovebusters). Or you could have asked her for money to pay it---and if she refused, you would say "then I'll take care of it...". <P>But when you "forgive" her, you are using a "disrespectful judgement" against her (in her opinion). Don't... even though it's tempting, and you're trying to earn points for being the "good guy".

NSR,<BR>oh man, are our (Dylan and I) thoughts going out to you! We just read your profile and went to your site... Dylan is choking back the tears, and I'm trembling, I am so angry that you're being treated this way.<BR>I agree with all the advice you've given me, and will take this opportunity to remind you not to LoveBust. But I'm affraid I'm not entirely standing up for what I believe in when I tell you that. My heart aches to tell you to stand up and put your foot down. Draw the line. Whatever the state of the marriage, or your relationship, you need to be dealt with on a respectful level- I get the impression (I may be way wrong, as I don't know the whole story) that you are taking a lot of crap in order not to offend or rock the boat, and I'm not sure where LoveBusting starts and standing up for yourself stops...<BR>Ahhh...<BR>Maybe I'm not the best one to offer advice here... Just know that Dylan and I are hurting for you, and in our own way, praying.<BR>D&D

K,<P>You're right...<P>When I did "bring up the phone bill"... I did ask her if "she would pay for (her portion of) it"...<BR>and then... her normal $$$ reponses came flowing.<P>A complete Non-LB would have been to just shut up afterwards...<P>Maybe saying "then I'll just pay for it"... might have worked, although that sounds a little condescending. She hates to be talked down to. Almost everything a say to her gives her that feeling. She knows the bill has to be paid... or I'll lose my phone service. Saying it may have made her think... "duh... of course your going to pay it... stupid." ...<P><B>But</B> you are right...<BR>Saying "I forgive her" <B>is</B> a love buster! No matter what I think of it!<P>I've always had a tough time with this one... since I soooo want her to know... that she can come back... and we can work things out... and I can sincerely forgive her. Complete silence (in place of "I forgive you") leaves the door open for her just thinking... "what a bas***d... he'll never accept me back... he'll never be able to forgive me... so I'll fight him even harder the next time... maybe he'll just go away..."<P>I honestly believe that not even bringing it up would have been the best course of action...<BR>... to a certain extent... doormat city!<P>I'm still waiting for a reply back from my attorney... once the extensions to suspend review by the "early settlement panel" are exhausted... I've got some major decisions to make on the divorce front... yes I know <B>divorce=love busting</B>... she won't dismiss the divorce case... Can I be a doormat... and then lose the kids? <P>God... do you hear me?... <BR>...let's talk later... (not by phone though) <P>I'll be OK...<P>----------------------<BR>Thanks for your kind words Deut and Dylan...<BR>It is hard... but I have you guys here to talk to...<P>and... <B>Him</B> who hears me too..<P>You two can make it! <BR>"...You were never that far..."... a portion of the the lyrics from a Christmas song call "In An Old City Bar" from Trans-Siberian Orchestra... I'll have to post the full lyrics some day for you.<BR>----------------------<BR>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited November 30, 1999).]

Reading reading reading, and I saw a statement, personally the best one you've made, in my opinion at least....<P>Quote:--------------------------------------<BR>My spouse is not the entirity of my life! Not now!<BR>The will of the Father isn't necessarily that my marriage heals and rebuilds! Not yet!<BR>--------------------------------------------<P>If you can ever truly accept this, I mean to know this in your heart, I believe you'll see a change. Maybe not in your W, but in you. We pray and pray and pray, we beg, we plead, God please fix this. I recounted the tale of the child wanting it's father to fix a toy and after a short period the child snatches it back and states angrily "why didn't you fix it!" The father looks down at the child and says "How could I, you never let it go"<P>How many steps do you have to take? How close are you? Are you there? If you don't know then you're not. You will know. That day is approaching.<P>As far as the big D goes, you are where I was afraid I would be. I truly feel for you. I will pray for you to have what it is that you need. Not for peace, not for reconciliation, not for patience. But for whatever it is you need.<P>Good luck and God Bless.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul,<P>I've seen statements similar to what I said... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>My <I>spouse</I> is not the entirity of my <I>life</I>!</B> Not now! <B>The <I>will</I> of the Father isn't necessarily that my marriage heals and rebuilds!</B> Not yet!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>... it's a hard thing to accept ...acceptance is slow<BR>... it hasn't sunk in fully ...time to let go<BR>... it's loaded with hurt ...a cross to bear<P>But it is as <B>honest</B> a truth as can exist.<P>We all ask for honesty (and trust) from our spouses... whether wayward or betrayed...<BR><B>We shouldn't ask honesty from them or anyone else... until we are honest with ourselves first.</B><P>Paul, you're kind... you're caring...<BR>I will get all that I need...<BR>I've asked... I will receive... (of benefit to my soul.)<P>Jim