My wife and I have been together for 8.5 years, married for 7. We have four children.<BR>In the beginning, I was a raising executive, earning big bucks. She was young (23), highly intelligent, beautiful, educated, and full of<BR>energy. She'd also gone through a previous<BR>divorce at age 20. <P>Several years ago (3) I changed to an entrepreneurial career. She'd known from the beginning that I had this ambition, and even to this day carries a letter from me in our dating days outlining 10 or so business ideas. She supported the move at the time.<P>She recently told me that she is no longer<BR>"attracted sexually" to me, although she <BR>loves me (but no longer has those butterfly<BR>like "in love" type feelings. Silly me, I'd thought all was well totally. She swears she's never cheated, or would cheat. I offered to leave twice, but she's hung on <BR>not wanting me to go each time. Finally,<BR>I came across this site and got her to fill out the Emotional Needs Questionairre. We talked for nearly six hours straight that night about each issue over and over. Here's what came out: 1) My wife now believes that what's driving her feelings is a need to go out and live a pre-married life - that is, have men pursue her, date and have<BR>sex with them, and then when that phase is over come back home. She calls it the "Grass is greener" desire. It's driven by her not having done this prior to the first marriage at age 19 (parent forced) and her second marriage (me) at age 23 (in which "she" pursued me aggressively). It seems that she may now have a fear that she's "missed" out on an important part of life, and at age 32 if she doesn't act on it she'll lose the opportunity forever. But she doesn't want to be without me either.<P>2) She says that her feelings for me have also diminished due to my lack of attention in several areas which the Questionairre nailed down well. I excell in sex and family committment, but have failed in all other areas. And, to my surprise, the Financial Support area was her #1. We're not poor by any means, and make well into the six figures even strugguling as an entreprenuer. She says that she's afraid of the struggle (uncertainty if the next dollar will come) and that she'd like the old lifestyle back.<P>She's agreed to work on the marriage for us as a couple and not simply for the kids (that's the only way I'd agree to it). I have acknowledged my Husband short-comings, and am eagerly fixing the Emotional Needs issues. I'll admit that I'm a bit angry about how important Money seems to be, and I don't understand what that has to do with love. I also am not happy that she held back so much dissappointment and personal views on things over all these years - trying to please me but actually simply letting things build up negatively inside her. <P>What can I do? Can this be saved? I'm dead against any type of sex with someone else for the sake of satisfying the fear/desire, but I don't want to lose my wife - my partner. I Love her dearly. How can I get her to fall in love with me again? And what the heck do "I totally love you" mean if she's not "in love" anymore. I'm so confused. In the meantime, we're working on things, and I desparately want to believe that things look promising. They are certainly better after talking about the issues. She says she's relieved that she's gotten it all out. Please help?<P>SamH

I think what it boils down to is that she wants to be wooed (sp?) again. She wants the fire and romance back. If you left her right now, I bet she would be miserable, because she would realize that she is IN LOVE with you. I felt the same thing in the past, but as soon as he left, I regretted it and realized that I was in love but just needed more. Try doing little things that you use to do. Take her out, go for walks, whatever it takes. She may need to FEEL that you need and want her and find her desirable not just to be told.

Wow, what a good response, Trying! My first reaction (sorry SamH) to this description is: 'how immature, and what a spoiled brat! She needs a good dose of REALITY!' But she is not the first person to regret marrying young or not "playing around"; I would wish for her that she see how much pain adultery/divorce/etc. causes and how many GOOD factors she has in her life!! But your response is a great one.<BR>Good luck to Sam and all!

SamH,<P>From your wife... you got "but no longer has those butterfly like 'in love' type feelings."...<P>From my wife... I got "he(me) doesn't make me flip."...<P>From your wife you get... "She calls it the 'Grass is greener' desire"...<P>From my wife I got... "I(Wife) don't feel like I'm getting old... but"...<P>From your wife you get... "She swears she's never cheated, or would cheat."...<P>From my wife I got... "I know the adultery is a sin... but sometime you've got to... to make yourself feel better (and then I'll(W) be a better mom)...<P>You can read my profile to see where I ended up... <P>I agree with trying2_4give... you've got to woo her back...<BR>But... I would also recommend some counseling fast!<BR>Both (wooing and counseling)... together can help...<BR>Doing nothing... will make you go backwards!<P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

What great responses! I have long felt that I married too young, didn't date enough. I would love to be wooed, but didn't get much of that even when we were dating, so I don't know how to get it now. I was 18 when we met, shy, thought the way it was with him was the way it's supposed to be. He's a great guy, but now I feel I should have looked at how he did not support my emotional needs then, and dealt with it before we got married. It is not right for her to ask to see other people and have you waiting. She made her choice when she married you. She needs help to decide which is more important to her. I agree, she is IN LOVE with you, but curiosity can be strong. The fact that she talked to you though I think shows that there is a solid relationship there that maybe she doesn't see.Do all those little things, you'd be surprised at how much they mean.<BR>

SamH, I am sorry again if I offended but I want to THANK you again for your post which reminds me to keep gratitide high on my list of attitudes to cultivate. This reminds me of Maslows Hierarchy of Needs, where once the basic needs are covered one looks to fulfil self-aspirations. On this topic of wanting to be "in love" and play sexual games, it would really be best to do this WITHIN your relationship!! It fosters happiness, personal growth and sets an excellent example for the children. If a woman plays around sexually. she usually decides it "must" be "love" because of our cultural (or genetic, depending on your point of view) message that woman have sex for love. But many times individuals carry the SAME relationship issues into the next relationship. Once the initial lust/love subsides, ego boundaries return and reality (gee this person isn't perfect or all I projected him to be) protrudes, we realize this Other Person is no real improvement over the last and WE have remained the same!! Yet sometimes the entire family has been torn apart in the process. My words of wisdom to your wife would be: (playing around) IS NOT WORTH IT!!! If she is mature or bright enough...<P>My H and I married at age 18, twelve years ago, endured many military moves and separations, surgeries for the birth defect of one beautiful child, the death of one newborn, two miscarriages, as well as H's affair and sadly the subsequent birth of his child by another woman, for which H feels no end of remorse. We have never had a combined or single income greater than $40,000!! But I can say I am more appreciative today for what I have than most people on the planet, including your wife!!! I am able to be home with two wonderfully healthy thriving children and enjoy the attentiveness of a very thoughtful loving husband who is also a great father. <P>Please tell your wife the grass only looks greener because she is looking over the WRONG side of the fence!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She could be living the pain of a parent whose child is very ill or worse--dying, the pain of a husband who is ill or cheats on or does not care for her, the deliemmas and difficulties of being a single mother, the trauma of war or famine, the scrapping and worry of financial difficulties... there is no end to REAL gut-wrenching problems in the world. I tend to look for "problems", real or imagined, to "solve", myself, but life has tempered me. I hope your wife keeps a better perspective on her "problems". (I should have these problems!)<P>Love is a commitment, a decision to care.<P>It is the time you put into tending your rose which makes your rose so precious.

Thanks all. And Jenny, I understand completely and am not in the least offended by, but rather am grateful for, you comments. The story you (Jenny) told saddens me greatly - I feel for you. Yet, you are clearly one very resilient person to have gone through so much pain only to surface with you family, pride, and happiness in tack. <P>My wife and I are working on things. It feels and seems much harder for me than for her at this point. I'm terribly hurt by all this. But at the same time I'm also glad that I've been awakened out of my "funk" of everyday marital routine. It is possible that my wife wants me to fail at my new found will to satisfy her emotional needs. I'm almost obsessed by it now - which scares me that I may be overdoing it. She's trying to give signs of affection as well, yet it still hurts me to now feel that she doesn't feel love anymore. I do believe that she is really "in love", but she won't allow herself to say it, and that now hurts. <P>My heart pangs daily, hourly, by the minute that we're just going through a down period, and that all will surface as your marriage did - perhaps much better than ever. Until then, I'm committed to being the champion of making this relationship sing with excitment, passion, and everlasting love. <P>As always, I'm open to and encourage any words of wisdom - any time. Thanks again.<P>SamH

I don't think her "grass is greener" theory necessarily has to do with the fact that she married young and feels she missed out on things.<P>I know I've had this feeling myself and I had time to "play the field" before I got married. <P>I guess I'm just trying to say that she shouldn't feel that she missed out on anything and she shouldn't use that feeling as a reason to go out an live a pre-married life.<P>I think that her lack of butterfly "in love" type feelings are normal and shouldn't be blamed on the fact that she married young. It would probably be better off to fix these problems within the marriage rather than to look outside the marriage for a solution. Looking outside the marriage will only cause worse problems and will only end up breaking both of your hearts.

We are trying to fix the problem within the marriage. Spicing up our marital life I view as an opportunity for both of us, and an opportunity for me to come out of my analytical shell and learn to show (not just feel) love and admiration for my wife - whom I've always loved dearly. <P>I feel that she wants the marriage dearly, and she won't let me go to pursue her desires because she says that I'm her companion (which I'm not to fond of hearing) and she doesn't want to be alone. She literally said that she wants to know what it's like with other people, and even name specific ethnic groups that she's "never had". Yet, she also still shows strong tendencies to be with me, sit where I sit, go where I go, give baby kisses, and cuddle. And she's agreed to trying to get beyond these feelings within the marriage. We're now using marriage builder tools to help. Still, I watched her last night with our 4 kids. And, although she loves them, her demeaner was almost as though they were an anchor in her life. I've asked her directly that if the kids were not here would she still be in the relationship -- after some hesitation, she responds that she'd still work on it for us, but I have to pull teeth to get her to that conclusion on her own.<P>What's also bothering me is that she now has<BR>the "I" disease. "I" want a new car and don't care about the bills or anything else, "I" want expensive boots. Her newly found philosophy (from her work no doubt) is that life is too short and is about me (her).<BR>I love her dearly, but am really scared and hopes that this passes soon. Our sex life has also dropped off the chart recently, which can not be good.<P>SamH

Sam, <P>My heart breaks when I read a post like yours. My wife decided to pursue the same route as yours only she never told me up front. If she isn't involved with someone already, she vulnerable now more than ever. <P>Like you I neglected my wife, and I am now reaping the harvest of neglect. It's a field you don't want to enter. <P>Your wife has said all of the common things a betrayer says to their spouse. So, you are certainly not alone. <P>My suggestion (keep in mind my mental state is rather shaken since I am going through a load of junk again - see my latest post titled "hope walked out the door" if you're interested) for you is to do two things. Woo her back like never before and never - ever go back to your old ways. Show her that commitment love far exceeds exploratory sex. Then have her spend some time reading the posts of the people here on this forum. Let her witness the destruction that infidelity causes on the lives of the betrayed, betrayer, children, OM and his family, relatives, friends, work associates, etc. She has no idea what she is comptemplating. <P>Infidelity is a cancer. Some survive, some don't. But, in all cases damage is done.<P>Best wishes to you SamH, if I can help you, please let me know.<P>SHA<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved. <P><BR>

SHA,<BR>Sure hope you see this. Your response to my questions verged on brilliance. Thanks for what is clearly very clear headed logical strategy - with a ton of potent emotions attached in the most positive of all ways.<BR>As I said before, your strength is remarkable. I'm so incredibly encouraged that so many who have felt depths of pain far worse than I'd ever imagined have so much hope that all will one day be better than ever. <P>I surprised my wife and met her for lunch today at her job. It was a good time, but again she kept saying "it feels wierd". As we walked back to her building holding hands, she slowly tried to "release" my hand as we neared her building. I questioned her about it - she did not deny it, but then held on tight (but clearly reluctantly) in response. I've been wondering ever since why she didn't want to be seen holding my hand near her building. I'm trying to stop asking myself this question, out of fear that the answer may be rather painful.<P>SamH

SamH, thanks for your kind words I love sympathy! I'm happy to say we renewed our vows on our 13th anniversary and dispite previous trials, life is good!<P>Your marriage and wife do sound troubled. I would take a deep breath and ask her about the hand thing; ask whether she's having or considering an affair (work affairs seem common enough). I say this because my H and I BOTH! wish we had confronted his affair (he's a recovering conflict avoider) before the OW got pregnant, and there is more than one man on this board whose wife has gotten pregnant by OM. Not to mention STDs and HIV...<P>There is the book "Light Her Fire" (and His Fire), and some book like 1001 ways to be romantic (which include "exciting" thing like meeting at a hotel), the book on the five Love Languages, and even some books like "After the Affair" might be helpful (she could have an emotional affair or attraction that isn't yet physical but I hate to project on you)... The bottom line is, it takes TWO to make the marriage work and if she's not honestly working on it, your wooing alone may or may not win her over. Maybe she needs something to shock her out of her complacency and me-centeredness, and I wish I knew how to do that. An affair is particularly selfish behavior. What's-in-it-for-me-ness is a frequent complaint my husband has about the teen and twenty-somethings that work for him; it does not seem as prevalent in the over-30 crowd...<P>Good luck to you and your family!!

I really don't have any good advice, but when I read a post like this, it makes me think of something my mother used to tell me when I was frustrated because I couldn't do two things at once. (By the way, my mom was a pretty smart woman) "When you choose one path, it necessarily excludes other paths. In other words, you can't do everything. When you can accept this and be happy with the path you have chosen, you will know you are mature." <P>By the way, I still have problems with this from time to time. As I said, no real advice, I just wish your wife could work on this and stop chasing after things that are no longer possible or even desirable now that she has a loving husband, four beautiful children and no material needs. Sounds like she already has a pretty good life to me.<BR>

My H said his lack of experiences with anyone but me was a factor in his affair. He says now that it isn't much different, but can be so much better without guilt.<P>I want to be romanced and courted. That is something I never really experienced. I have never been anybodies everything.<P>I had a coworker years back who would do something really pretty nifty with her H. Once a month or so they would have a planned one night stand with each other.<P>They would take turns on who would decide on the where and when. The person deciding would leave a note where the other would find it. It was always on a weekend, but the exact day was a surprise. <P>The note would tell the spouse to go to a certain restaurant or bar (a lot of times they would disguise themselves and use role playing or themes like western, or hurt lover or something like that). Anyway, then the other spouse would go to the restaurant and pretend to pickup the spouse and they would go off to a hotel for the night.<P>She loved this and they really had a lot of fun doing it. They were an older couple but were what I used to refer to as "still hot for each other". He sent her flowers, bought her clothes, surpised her with lunch dates. She said life was never boring.<P>I asked my H if we could do this, but he said he wouldn't feel comfortable so I dropped it.

SamH: Maybe call it "the thrill of the hunt." We have all experienced whether a little or a lot, wooing and excitement when we first start off in a relationship. Some, including myself have had this misconception that marriage is "happily everafter" based on the Cinderella syndrome. We expect the exitement or wooing to continue after the wedding bells stop ringing. However, it's afterwards that's the real test of love. A marriage is a living organism(for lack of a better word). It is always in need of constant care from both sides. On some occasions, one side is giving more than the other or picking up the slack. Yes, it is alot of work, effort and heartache. But, it also has it's benefits if the couple are a good match. Communication is a very important ingredient in a marriage(something I wish I had done). You and your spouse obviously expressed your concerns and she told you what she was lacking. It's a start whether you liked what she said or not. My input to you for her is:<BR>Learn from other's mistakes or experiences.<BR>I married as teenager. Yes I felt I missed out on alot. I thought I could play out those years I missed in my late 20's early 30's. Wrong! What I ended up doing was disasterous to myself and my marriage. Unless you're already a predestined player, trying to recapture your younger dating years is an illusion that could end up causing more pain than it's worth. Be aware there are those who will dispute this. <BR>At some point she needs to accept responsibility for her actions. Did she not know her desire to "play the field" after her divorce and before she remarried? <BR>Has she considered how her "missed opportunity" behavior is going to affect your children?<BR>Two of my children are teenagers and two are married. When I told them that I wanted out of my marriage after 20plus years, they were devasted. There was alot of anger, tears and questions of why especially when they and my spouse thought everything was fine.<BR>The money issue. Does she work outside of the home? If you financially do ok, then don't dwell on what may not happen in regards to financial struggling. And if it does, hopefully, you both: 1. Put money in a "rainy day" savings account. 2. Know how to budget and shop wisely. Hard times do occur every now and then and one thing I have learned from living at the poverty level a few times in my life is making that dollar stretch. My spouse and I are financially well off, but I have caused some high bills over the years for my spouse. Not only am I trying to repair my marriage, but also I am currently working hard to help him pay off those bills by doubling payments and limiting my spending. Even now during the holidays, I have set a budget for gift spending. <BR>Tell her to think twice before destroying a marriage that can be improved with alittle hard work and care. The grass is not greener on the other side, it's false advertising with the buyer being taken.<P>Good luck and hang tough.

Sam--<P>I am responding to the one aspect of your post, that your W feels no longer sexually attracted to you. <P>I make no judgement upon the sexual activities that a loving couple engage in BY AGREEMENT. That disclaimer made (and now out of the way)...there are a multitude of ways to spice up your sex life to rejuvenate your wife's interest, ultimately, in YOU.<P>Completely discard or ponder these suggestions, as you prefer (some of the suggestion will have a touch of "naughtiness," but remember, no defined line of agreement HAS to be crossed!):<P>Take her to dinner, you dressed differently than your usual clothing (if you don't typically wear turtlenecks and sport coats, try it/dress UP your casual attire, jeans but with boots if you don't usually wear boots/a different cologne). Perhaps leave her a note how you'd like HER to dress (naughty? leave the undies at home? or simply say "how about something in [red], it looks great on you." By pre-arrangement, have the waiter bring out a little gift from you with her drink, or entree. Be a little mysterious! Generalization, yes, but we women typically love that.<P>If she likes to dance and you rarely take her, it's time! I adore it when my H will take me dancing, a supreme act of love since it's not really his cup of tea.<P>If you think she's game, plan on evening out at a bar or club...when you get there, ask her if she'd like to test her attractiveness without you for a little while...then, of course, if there's a gentlemen SHOWING interest, you arrive to be her selection! (can be fun)<P>Take her to a sex club. Agree on what rules you have as a couple beforehand. (You do NOT have to have actual contact with others there--my limited experience w/this scene showed me people who frequent such places are actually quite polite and non-pushy!--enjoy it as a couple, pas de deux only.)<P>Okay...so you now think I'm a pervert!!! Embarrassed, I'm going to sit in the corner now. <P>Good luck!

Thanks all. What great responses. I really appreciate the help. My wife and I had another long "telephone" talk today. I phoned her at work (6pm) and we talked until after 8pm. The says that I'm her companion, and that she does not want another companion and that I belong at home with her. Yet, she says that she does not feel the same "I Love You" fire and that scares her. She doesn't know what it means and keeps asking "how" to work on it. I always insist that we must work on it for us, and not just the kids. She now says that she's "uncomfortable" with the new me - how I've instantly changed to meet her emotional needs. She says the knows the other shoe will drop. There were good breakthroughs, and some very painful words to me. Then she comes home and kisses me pationately. I'm totally lost and in love. It's like both a bad and good drug. Later she suggested that "our situation is lightweight compared to others, but then again maybe it's really bad too". What the heck does that mean?

Lucks,<P>No need to be embarrassed. I really appreciate the advice, and am actively looking for ways to spice up our life/relationship, and for me to come out of my lifelong "shyness" shell. The problem is that as I implement change (which is actually quite easy for me to do and maintain simply because for me the things I now do have nothing to do with "love" and therefore if they are meaningful to her and I can give them - it's easy) she seems to both like it and fear it. That fear creates uncertainty and cautiousness. She's afraid to open her heart to allow love to simply happen. If I don't change I give her ammo to challenge the relationship, and now if I do change it doesn't feel right (or perhaps she is simply concerned that it won't last or isn't really me) and so it has limited effect. Any suggestions to these things would be great. In the meantime, my love for my wife is unbounded - she is my world, and our family is the fruit of that world. I have at this time all the love and time it takes. And, although this situation has "freed" the old Sam from the shyness shell, the original person she fell in love with is still there and is not going away - he's simply evolving with the relationship. In a wierd oxymoronic sort of way, as much pain as the situation gives me, the opportunity to evolve and be the person I've always really wanted to be anyway feels good.<P>SamH

I've re-read all these posts today, and I again want to thank all of you for the advice. My wife and I are now scheduled to begin counseling next week, and I'm really looking forward to that. I've also recently read that this sudden "change" in her resulting in part from all the little things I did or didn't do over the past years is quite normal. I sure as hell hope so. My family and I need my wife desparately. The love we share is deep, whether she recognizes it at this time or not. <P>No Obstacles, we're going to fix this and live an even far better life together.