Hi all you wonderful ladies. I made some strides, I think, in setting boundaries. I'd like to hear what you all think. H is still under the same roof with me. His housing is now vacated. He got the key Wednesday, water on Thursday, and power lined up for this week. Stuff left behind he cleared out this weekend and bug bombed the place. He was evasive Saturday when I asked about him staying in his new place. The three years he said he would get a job looms in my memory. I can think of a dozen ways he can postpone his move date, and he could probably think of 100. <p>He's left twice and returned twice, gone 10 days each time. This last time it was Christmas Eve with a cold front blowing in. He had been sleeping in his car. His prospect for housing had just happened, plus he made his first appointment at the veteran center. My supply of patience had replenished during those 10 days, and I agreed to what I thought was a few days, a week at the most. Here it is a month later, and I'm still wondering when do I get my Plan B? My blood pressure was beginning to simmer into a boil. <p>In the past, I've allowed things to pressurize until I blow a gasket. Then we have a blowout. I yell at a him like a crazed drill sergeant. This time I said something before blowing a gasket. I asked him again about a date. He said when the power turns on. (mind you, he hasn't said one word about what he wants to take with him, and he hasn't packed one box) He thinks it may be by Thursday. Ok, I said, how about Thursday as our date? He agreed. His eyes have glazed over by this time with his thousand yard stare. <p>I pressed on and asked about things he wants to take with him. Again he was vague in response, saying he'll take some things with him. I asked if that would be happening by Thursday too. He responded by saying how hard it is on him to move. I'm not unsympathetic, but I'm not a one way street either. This could drag on forever at this rate. (I didn't say that to him) <p>I said to him that we seem to have been unclear on what we've agreed on so far. I said last time he came back, I thought it was for a few days. Now it's a month later and my supply of patience is at zero level. Further delays will put my patience supply in the red. <p>I left it at that. I didn't raise my voice. I kept my tone calm and even. As far as I know, we have an agreement that he will be under his own roof by Thursday. He also said he didn't understand why I want this separation. Since I started asking for the separation, I've told him I need some time alone, some time to heal. I've told him I'm willing to handle the bankruptcy papers, but I can't handle him at the same time (that's been on hold AGAIN). I've told him he needs professional help if there's any hope of us having a future together. I told him I need to see his actions match his words. I told him that I feel unimportant to him, rejected by him. I told him nine years of unwanted celibacy isn't normal, that he has forsaken me by withholding intimacy. I told him that I want to depend on him in my time of need, and I have doubts about him taking care of himself. <p>I've told him all these things and still he wonders why. Is there something out of line with what I've told him? Or did the words never reach his brain? I feel comfortable with my decision for a separation. I've tried long and hard to reach him, but he lives in a world of his own, and that world doesn't include me. He gave me a self portrait for Christmas. I had to put it away because it gives me the heeby geebies. Even his gifts are about him. Him him him. This time when he said he didn't understand, I told him the reason is probably lack of interest. I told him I share details of my life with people who show interest. He responded with silence. <p>Whaddya think ladies? Are my boundary skills improving? Do I have solid reasons for separation? How would you feel if H "separates" for a while and keeps coming back? Am I out of line to feel perturbed that the "few days" turned into a month? I feel like my life is on hold again until the "real" separation begins.

Hey LH,<p>You sound better. Stick to your guns. If you feel you need this than by all means go to plan B. I know for me without Tony here I feel more relaxed and able to handle everything else that is in my path. <p>I know what you mean by Christmas gifts being about him. Every gift I get is something he wants. I now have surround sound in the living room. I do have to give Tony credit though he has gotten me some really nice peices of jewlery. <p>I guess knowing how it is I think you have handled yourself very well. I know the glazed over look all too well. It gets madding to say the least. Plus it hurts because I know for me it just means he (Tony) could really care less about me. I am just another object or ends to his means and that anything I want or care about is not important. I hope I am making sense. <p>I am praying for you. Let me know how things are coming. <p>P.S. I never did receive your email. My email address is taffneyc@mediaone.net.

LH, your plan sounds reasonable and good. Don't doubt yourself. Your husband is typical passive-aggressive (being vague, pretending to not understand why even though you've explained clearly, not acting on agreed terms, not wanting to commit to action...). You have been clear in your communication - DO NOT DOUBT YOURSELF! <p>I support your actions. Your husband is not offering you a marriage. You deserve one. He can't get better staying with you like this. He deserves to, but it will be his choice. I am praying for both of you, I know it must be very hard - for him, too. But the best thing you can do is expect him to stand on his own two feet. This is the only way - by his choice. You offered other options in the past - going to counseling together, trying to communicate clearly and setting boundaries. He had choices, but he chose the same passivity. This is now happpening because of that. Even though you are the one having to take the initiative (because he won't) he is responsible because of the choices he made.<p>Praying for you and your husband.

Oh, I feel terrible that I missed this for days!! I'm so sorry!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The thing I most strongly feel about your situation is that you can never truly be sure about anything because of your H's mental illness. I can't imagine a more frustrating situation than a seriously mentally ill spouse.<p>Yes, it sounds like you set some boundaries, and that's super! You also deserve a marriage filled with love and caring, and you aren't getting that.
How long can you go on like this? I guess that's the question.<p>I support your decision for the separation. It's time, I think.<p>As an aside, my ex and I separated three times in about eight months time... each time got better... sadder, but better...

LH,
A few more thoughts:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Whaddya think ladies? Are my boundary skills improving? Do I have solid reasons for separation?<hr></blockquote><p>In your situation YES! It is for your protection (emotional health) and his good. <p>As a contrast: although my H. has passive-aggressive behavior and is therefore somewhat similar to yours, he is making an effort to change now. We have just started Christian counseling and he will also go on his own. For the most part he is doing the assignments on his own initiative. Also on his own initiative he is reading a book and working through the questions. It is slow going (hard for him to see through the denial), but I must admit he is trying and doing his best. For me, the ship may still come in, so I can't turn from the dock yet. Your current situation is different, so your choices are different. From what I can tell your H. has not made these kinds of efforts. He may when the separation comes, but not necessarily. My H. didn't take our situation seriously until I was serious about separating. I'm thankful it hasn't taken a separation (mainly for the kids' sake), though I'm sorry it did have to get to this point. Do not compare yourself to anyone else, or think you aren't "hanging in there" enough, or trying hard enough. Only you live your life. I do believe you have valid reasons for a separation.<p>Have you thought through the terms of your separation? How long, what next?, if you would consider reconciling under certain conditions (and what specific conditions it would take?). Just wondering if your thought process has gone that way yet. Do you have a good counselor guiding you? It could be helpful to continue to make things clear.<p>As a Christian I never thought I would have this kind of viewpoint, but I have come to believe that in some (probably few) situations it is necessary. For your good and his. God will continually guide you.<p>[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: siftedlikewheat ]</p>

Thank you everyone for your responses. I feel a bit wishy washy this week. H has been on good behavior and did start going to the veteran center. I keep reminding myself about the cycle of abuse. The honeymoon period is followed by walking on eggshells, building of tension, and an eventual blowout. He's very closed-mouth about his sessions at the vet center. Makes me wonder if he's really going. And if he is going, is he doing it to placate me? Or is he facing up to his own issues and willing to work on them? I don't know. The vet center counselor warned me that treatment 30 years after the fact has mighty poor success rates. In terms of thinking things through, I'm willing to "wait and see" for nine months. I won't hold my breath, I know his odds for improvement are slim. Still I'll hope for a miracle and prepare myself to move on if that particular miracle doesn't land here. <p>I'm trying to let go (which will be a LOT easier after he moves). H finally made a request for some furniture to go in his new place. Another step in the right direction. The Thursday deadline is probably unrealistic since he will need my help to get (again!). I'm seriously thinking about renting a storage unit. Between his lack of planning, and my desire to seriously declutter this house, I know he'll need/want/take more things from here. I want to take the items to storage unit, and use it as a transfer station. Otherwise, he'll have countless reasons to keep coming back. <p>Thank you all so much for your thoughts. This week is a toughy.

Hi LH,<p>I know how it is when your H is on good behavior. I have seen it so many times with Tony. For me Tony never would change. He would be good for a couple of months and then back to the same cycle.<p>I think it would not hurt if your H moved out while going to the Vet center. He and YOU really need to change the dynamics of your relationship for it to truly work. <p>I think you are doing great. You really have been working on you and that is all that can be done. You H is in charge of himself. If he really wants to get help than he needs too. <p>I know tomorrow is the moment of truth. I think you should stick to your guns. The more he manipulates the situation the more you will feel resentment and it will show. I am praying for you.

LH - whether he is going or is not going or only going to placate you, that should not be your focus. <p>Drive your own bus. Storage unit is not a bad idea!<p>I think you are already in an unofficial plan B - but the B is for setting healthy boundaries - to protect YOU. You are doing good. Just because you aren't absolutely rigid doesn't mean that you aren't doing good, ya know. You do the best you can do with each situation - and keep in constant prayer. <p>God Bless You.
TNT

Thanks TNT. I've been praying for power today, yesterday, and the day before that. Power as in the lights being turned on at H's new place. Pray for lights ladies! He'll be staying there as soon as the power turns on.

The lights came on at 4:00 this afternoon! H is now under his own roof. I helped him take some things twice today. When he saw the power was on, he said he'd get his computer next. I made a couple of stops on the way home. He was already gone when I arrived. It left me feeling a little unsettled, not sure if he would come back for one more thing tonight. His bird is still here. Hasn't said a word about it, or asked that I take care of it. In any case, I think it's safe to say that I'm separated now. Thanks for helping me through this one.

Good Morning LH,
How are you coping with things?
Sending prayers and positive energy your way.
Love, cl

Hi LH,<p>How are you (and the bird) this morning?<p>Thinking of you...

Thanks for asking cl. The decluttering is progressing steadily. Yesterday I guess I should've put decluttering at the top of the list. All the other things I NEED to get done seemed too overwhelming and I fretted away an afternoon. My home office still has a ways to go, but I just got a solid chunk of work done. <p>I feel pretty good about the separation. Over the last several months, I've spent considerable time learning about verbal abuse and passive aggressive personality disorders. It was time well spent in the sense that I learned how to step out of the dance I was in. I learned how it's not my responsibility to manage my H's self care. For the time he was here, though, his mere presence would keep my focus on him while my own self care was going down the tubes. <p>I spend time on feng shui every day. I pulled empty boxes out of the attic yesterday afternoon. They symbolize things hanging over my head, like the work I just got finished this morning. I tried to do it yesterday and fretted instead. Placement and choices of photos in the home are another area for change. <p>I got a small bulletin board and filled it with family photos and photos of H and me from happier times. A childhood portrait of myself moved from a hallway to the living room. A watercolor print in my office that contained a stop sign is gone. I liked it originally because it's a local scene of the waterfront and the colors are bright and cheery. That darn stop sign had to go. Every time since yesterday that I look at that spot, I am SO glad the print isn't there anymore. Just now I hung a photo of Mt. Hood in its place. When I sit at my new secondary workstation, the photo will be behind me. Feng shui says the backdrop of a hill or mountain lends support. Last night I slogged through a backlog of filing. If I can get through all my other backlogs without losing the few clients I have, I think I'll be in pretty good shape. Bankruptcy proceedings still loom over me, but I try not to worry about that too much. <p>Meanwhile, H is living in a dump of a house. The hot water runs on gas. He says he's worried about the place burning down and doesn't want to turn on the gas. In the old days, I might have tried to persuade him that the risk of fire is within reasonable limits, seeing how the house is still standing after a long period of gas service. The risk of fire is certainly possible, but probable??? I don't think so. I didn't touch that subject. He's the one taking cold showers, not me. It's really up to him to decide about the gas, and I'm not going to feel guilty for his lack of hot water. It's not my problem! It's not easy seeing him suffer, and stepping down from the Ms Fix-It role is even harder. It's getting a lot easier though now that we each have a roof of our own.

Lonesome Heart said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Thanks for asking cl<hr></blockquote><p>I asked too, LH, I asked too!!! <jumping up and down!!> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You sound GREAT, do you know that???<p>What you're doing with the house, the clutter, sounds absolutely wonderful. <p>(((((LH)))))<p>[ February 03, 2002: Message edited by: new_beginning ]</p>

Hi Sheryl!!! Bird is doing fine. He doesn't squawk nearly as much now. Amazing what fresh water DAILY can do for a bird's disposition. His water dish was totally dry and empty the first time H left. <p>Today's a good day.

OK, Sheryl, you're onto me. I started a reply this morning and then said, no, I'm going to get some REAL work done. I didn't see your post until after my novelette was finished. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I sure do appreciate each and every one of you checking on me!

Do you mean to tell me that you have a LIFE outside of this board??? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Is that possible? I didn't think that was possible!! How do you do that????<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]