</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't want to go back to an abusive situation. But I'll tell you, with the brick walls that I hit just trying to get out of one </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The brick walls are:

1) No family support. They are not supportive, and will not help me at all. Not monetarily, not with middle of the night prayers, not with emotional support, nothing. That hurts WAY MORE than the lack of love and protection, and abuse that I got from Mike. (I learned that last November when Mike went to law enforcement and child psychologist and said that he and Ryan thought I would kill them. My family was not eager to help instead they said, no, that it is God's will whatever happens, because we "prayed" about it.)
2) Law enforcement is schmoozed and I can PROVE it but I can't post why I know it... It is on the stand provable.
3) No Legal Services support -how do I prove the truth without a lawyer that will fight for me
4) I am isolated out here in Rural MN
5) No job = no safe haven of normalcy, and recently losing my job makes me feel like a failure and I really did try my hardest - and this contributes to my feeling of inadequacy and my inability to support myself or my son, contributing to a dependent victimized hopelessness
6) Son is oppositional
7) Am in small town so no anonymity and this person talks to that person and if he schmoozes this person then the next person is schmoozed too
8) I asked my church to help me but they wouldn't because they want to be neutral (son goes to school there and they hope to be able to minister to him if he ever wants it)
9) No money and no way to get the money he stole back
10) His children and some of his family members mommy-bash contributing to my powerlessness in parenting

Had an incident today. Son has bullying behavior big-time. His teacher and friends tell me this all the time. I have been called by an attorney friend neighbor whose grandchildren know Ryan and have come home and complained about his bullying behavior.

Just today: Ryan's friend spent the night. Ryan had asked friend to spend the night at my house and the court order said to return him at 7 am to his dads so he brought his friend with him. I asked Ryan if he had permission from his dad and he said no, but that was not a problem. He said he tried to get permission but his dad was not answering his cell phone on Thursday night. (Dad is always available and when dad is not it surprises me.) Anyway I thought that Ryan knew best.

So Ryan and his friend went to his dad's and I didn't feed them because Ryan wanted to warm up some cinnamon rolls that his dad bought at his dads house. So everything was fine.

I get a call at about 11:00a from his friend's mother saying that Ryan's dad is not with the boys, that he gave them money and let them go to dairy queen by themselves and that my son was bullying her son and he was crying and what could I do about it. (He lives probably 7 miles from there, and I live about 15 miles from there from opposite directions.) So I went to DQ and picked up the friend. Ryan was there - no sign of dad - and they each had a bike.

Ryan and the friend started to argue and I told the friend to get in the car and I would take him home. Then I heard Ryan say that the friend was a selfish little baby and a lazy good for nothing and he wanted nothing more to do with him because he is selfish (paraphrased).

I stayed there talking to Ryan until his dad showed up. (Ryan called his dad on the cell to tell him I was at DQ.) H started putting bikes in the jeep and I kept asking Ryan what his side of the story was, I did hear what the friend's side of the story was. Son was with dad and we were talking on cell phone and son said "you are just going to call me a liar anyway, why should i tell you anything". Not true. I don't call my son a liar. But I am not going to let him get away with bad behavior.

Was I scared? YES. I was scared. I was angry too. Why did he give these kids money and tell them to get lost? What was more important? None of my business. But Ryan said that his dad was at the hairdressers or at his attorneys.

I have given son money and let him go to pizza parlour across the street from my work before, just so he had something to do while I worked... Just yesterday I dropped the boys off at the dentist while I had another appointment and picked them up down the street at the movie gallery...

This is just so typical behavior of my son to bully his friends and he wonders why he has to beg his friends after a a month of refusals to get them to come over and visit with him.

I'm rambling....

>>10) His children and some of his family members mommy-bash contributing to my powerlessness in parenting<<

Let's start with this one.

Earlier in this very same post you said you receive multiple complaints about your son's bullying behavior, yet you conclude "Anyway I thought that Ryan knew best."

You have given away every last inch of your parenting power. I feel like I'm coming down on you like a ton of bricks here tnt. I doubt there's one helpful thing I can say to you that will be within your comfort zone.

How close is the nearest city? Sometimes counselors travel to outlying areas so people can receive services.

Ask some of those dozens of attorneys WHY they are refusing to represent you.

I thought Ryan knew best about what his dad would say about his friend coming over there today. It was Ryans idea, Ryan's dad's house, and Ryan's friend. I didn't know what his dad would say, that is odvious. I don't know what they had planned toay. Ryan would know more than I would about that.

Why could't I get those attorney's to represent me? Because part of the strategy of my husband is to contact all of those attorneys so that they would be unable to represent me because of a conflict.

How do I know it was a strategy? a) Crisis center told me this was the same strategy as one of their worse abusers, who happened to live with my step-daughter last year. This other abuser guy burned his house down with his family in it. He lived in my stepdaughters house while he waited to go to trial. His strategy became my husbands strategy. b) This is also supported by MN Battered Women's Legal Advocacy Project. Talked to them today. They substantiated to me that this is the new strategy that abusers are using, contacting all these attorneys and telling them their side of the story and then those attorneys will have a conflict if they represent me. c) Because I talked to 35 attorneys by the end of May that had been contacted by my husband.

I also was turned down by another 9 attorneys in the past month. These are attorneys 1) that have been contacted by husband, 2) require a $10,000 retainer, 3) Do not have time

As far as counseling.... I am receiving individual counseling - son is receiving individual counseling, - and we have an intensive-in-home therapist that hopefully can continue to provide services until he is schmoozed by husband.

tnt,

Hi! I've been following along...although silently. I'm just not sure what kind of help to give you. I know you're desperate.

I'm really sorry to say this...But I can't believe your family. Abuse is not God's will. And sometimes, I think that no matter how much you pray, it's not going to just "go away". I prayed for over 10 years and all it got me was more bruises and alot of emotional damage for me and my children. And no matter how much you want to, you just can't reconcile with an abuser unless they realize that they have a problem and get help for that first. I don't see that happening in your situation. Your H doesn't believe that he is wrong about anything and has so many people backing him. He'll never see the light that way.

And about your son, he needs to be kept from his dad. He will grow up to be an abuser. My sons haven't been around their father but maybe 10 times in the past 4.5 years and I still worry about my 2 oldest. (ages 12 and 14) They have such horrible tempers and can be VERY disrespectful. We (my new H and I) are having a lot of problems with my oldest. He's been smoking, and smoking pot. Plus he ran off one time and I had to get the Sheriff to help look for him. He was gone for over 24 hours. It always seems that just when everything seems to be going good, something happens to put me back into "that place". It's hard for anyone involved in abuse to fully recover. Please, PLEASE get lots of help for him!

As for you, keep your chin up! Your determination will pay off!

Lots of (((((HUGS)))))
Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi TnT,

I am feeling a little like LH and Mitzi here... for two reasons most of all.

Your family -- what the H-E-double-hockey-sticks are these people THINKING? When my parents found out that David was hurting me in ways they hadn't realized (pulling hair, name-calling) they were HORRIFIED. They are respectful to him on the rare occasion they see him, as he is my kid's father, but they do NOT love him like they once did. HOW COULD THEY?

Think if it were YOUR DAUGHTER/SISTER/AUNT? If *she* told you that she had stitches in her head from her H. Would you be saying, "Now, now, girly, just get back in there and fight for your marriage!!"?? C'mon... anyone who loves you would want you to be SAFE, for crying out loud.

I read that email and had to read the dang thing THREE TIMES because I couldn't tell *what* was being said. At first it seemed like she was siding with Mike... then you... then Ryan... then Mike... what the h***?????????

Secondly, abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse. When David pulled doors off hinges and punched holes in walls, that *shoulda* been a hint, but it wasn't. I was lucky in that he never hit me (well, except once when he slapped my face because I called his 1st OW a name)... see how it is, TnT? I hate to say it, even now. We never want to admit that the men we love(d) abuse us. Somehow it makes US feel flawed.

WE AREN'T THE ONES FLAWED, THEY ARE.

I don't know what I can say either... except to add to the chorus and tell you to keep trying until you find someone to HELP YOU GUYS.

((((((((((((((TnT)))))))))))))))

WOMAN, YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAN THIS. STOP THE INSANITY NOW AND TAKE CARE OF YOU AND RYAN... BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

Next time it may be more than stitches and it may be more than your head. If Ryan tries to protect you, he could be hurt or killed. Please hear me. Hear us!

What am I doing that you don't want me to do?
Please be more specific.

I "Am" doing the following:

1) I am trying to find an attorney so that I don't lose my son and my assets by default. Have MAJOR obstacles there. More than what is normal obstacle3s. More than just money obstacles.

2) Abiding by the order for protection.

3) Getting individual counseling

4) Calling for help at crisis center (what a joke... and it aint funny.)

5) Getting intensive in-home therapy for son and I

6) Getting individual counseling for son

7) Trying to take care of my medical issues

8) Praying for my husbands salvation, repentance and change, asking for others to help me pray for GOOD things not bad things, praying for my son and I, praying for my safety, calling the police when I need it, doing everything that I can do to advocate for my family and I.

9) Asking for support and help from family and friends

10) Trying to do what is right for everyone. Including not standing there and taking more abuse. I drew my line in the sand.

<small>[ July 19, 2004, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: trustntruth ]</small>

tnt...

You're not doing anything wrong. I think you're doing everything you need to do. I think because you mention possibly having a marriage with your H AFTER he gets help, well..it's just hard for some people to understand. But I do. For a while after my ex and I split up, I would've taken him back in a heartbeat. I was willing to put up with anything from him just to be with him. It's very hard to get out of an abusive relationship and actually move on. You spend all of your time trying to please someone who can't be pleased. And when they're not there, you don't know what to do. There's no one to please.

Just keep trying, hon. It'll eventually work. Someone gave you advice to call the state's attorney general. I think that is a great idea!!

(((((HUGS)))))
Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TnT,

Among all the hugs coming to you is probably a bit of frustration -- NOT WITH YOU, but with YOUR SITUATION.

I will back off now. Clearly I am upsetting you, and that's the LAST thing you need.

I know how it feels to tell your story and feel like nobody *really* understands.

Like Mitzi, I do understand how come you want your marriage to work *if and when* your H gets help. I felt the same way about David for YEARS. Nothing really changed though, because HE WOULD NOT GET HELP. I did, but he just did NOT see his part in the drama. I stayed with him for 20 years. I very much "get it"... I promise.

As I said, I'll back off... know that you're being thought of with warmth and love... it's just hard to sit by and watch someone you care about be beaten down, that's all.

YOU AREN'T DOING ANYTHING WRONG.

(((((((((TnT)))))))))

TnT,

Your not doing anything wrong--

I haven't read all of the posts--but your son is scared right now--He witnessed his dad throw you and crack your head open--and as your son said--his dad tried to kill you--so he understand's what's going on--

Abusive people are sick people--and I'm sure he is telling your son that if he doesn't go with him--He will hurt mommy again--so in his own way your son is trying to protect you--

And your son living in his own fear that if he goes against his dad---dad will turn on HIM too--
so he's doing the only thing he can think of to protect BOTH of you---

My prayers are with you both--

trustntruth,

In reading your aunt's e-mail I would have to say that she is being supportive of you--

She is not however living the life that you are--
she is not stuck in the abuse--and is trying to encourage you to draw on the strength you have in Christ to remove yourself from this situation--

This is going to be difficult to for you to hear
but I feel I must say it--

God is NOT going to swoop down and change your husband--God is NOT going to force Your husband to change--He has to WANT to change--and right now
He has NO DESIRE to do so--So it isn't going to happen--the sooner you come to terms with that--the sooner you will be able to get out of the marriage--

--I am not seeking support to STAY with my abusive husband!--

TR--Your husband IS NOT going to change--so if you STAY in the marriage--you will continue to be abused--

--I do not want a divorce, but I don't want abuse, either!--

TR--I understand this desire--many of us here do-
but from all that has been shared you can't have BOTH--You either divorce him--or continue to be abused--the choice IS YOURS!!!


--I want to stay married, but I don't want to stay married to an abuser. Does that make sense?

TR--It makes perfect sense--but please understand
you can't FIX YOUR HUSBAND--You can't make Him want to change--He has to be WILLING TO CHANGE!!

--Is something messed up here? Why does everyone think I have gone back to him? --

TR--I guess the reason so many people think your going back to him is out of fear of losing your son--fear of what He will do if you leave with your son--his manipulation and your desire to be loved by this man--who doesn't even love himself--
who doesn't even KNOW what love is--

but God does not intend for YOU to stay in an abusive marriage--it appears that you are putting your desire for your husband's love above the Love of God has for you--

Not everyone will come to accept Christ as their Savior--Not everyone will enter Heaven--even many of those we love will never see a need to repent--
they are blinded to the truth--

Hi y'all,

Remember me -- Taj and I started this forum in 1999.

Just wanted to encourage you that hubby and I are planning how to celebrate our 20th.

This is something I NEVER thought we'd get to.

If you want to chat me, please post in WBS but start a new string -- I don't want to stomp on your conversation.

hugs,

lizzie, lizpearl, POGP, wearer of the occasional thong .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

----------------

Hi Liz!

Wondered where you've been! Must be out buying thongs! LOL

Good to see you!
Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TNT
Im new to this site been through a bit myself. Ive never posted but read very much. I just want you to know that ive been reading your posts for a month or so and I have been praying for you and your situation. My very best friend was in a situation similar to yours. she is out of it now but it took much strength to do what she needed to do for herself and her kids. Just know I am praying for you and I will continue.
God Bless You

Wow TNT, this is SueB, can't remember my password after all this time and no longer at the same email address! I am so glad you are still here and that this study is stil going on. Hubby and I have separated and I have serious doubts about reconcilliation, especially in light of Dan Allendar's teaching in Bold Love about reconcilliation coming after remorse. I do not think there ever will be any. I was kind of shocked to recognize the emotional abuse that occurred in the relationship. If anything differed from his thinking patterns, then we were all messed up. His identified needs were bdsm related and he wanted to be god first and foremost. My God says no comes before Him.

At any rate, I felt the need to touch base again for some reason. blessings to all of you ladies.

Hi SueB! Looks like you posted a while back. Hope you see this. I hope tnt is alive and thriving. This forum helped me so much at the time I needed lots of help.