Hope everyone had a good Turkey Day. I've been offline for a few days, so I need to get my "fix". Things haven't been so hot. In fact, they've been pretty gloomy. But, I'm looking for hope, particularly from some of my heroes (Hey Susan, Sheba, Katya, SHA, RMA, flipper and Dazed and Confused)<P>Okay, night owls. Particularly those who are betrayers with emotional affairs.<P>Q1: Did you ever apologize to your spouse for having an EA? If so, how long after discovery?<P>Q2: When did YOU realize that you were betraying via an emotional affair? Are you still viewing your affair as a "friendship"?<P>Q3: Have you broken ALL contact with the OP?<P>In a way, I think I have the answers to these questions. But, I'm back in the "valley", looking for a peak. I guess I'm looking for some more insight, some encouragement, some hope.<P>I'll check back in the am!<P>Chin up!<P>--keystone

Keystone,<P>Man I am back with you for now. The valley today seems somewhat low. Had a good talk with my wife last night and blames none of our problems now on her "connection with OM". Those feelings of something not being right have been there for awhile. I almost have to laugh after the conversation that we had 4 weeks ago where she said there was a connection etc.<P>I wish I had good words of wisdom. I will tell you that after a year of this BS I sort of blew up a little last night nothing major just talked about what was on MY mind for once. I am so tired of being on the defensive with everything. Hang tough man. I know one thing that we are far better people then when we first got here.

Zip --<P>Sorry, I left you off my list of "heroes". As you know, our stories are all too similar.<P>I just wish I felt there was some progress. No apologizes (I know I shouldn't expect one), no acknolekdgement of an affair (ditto), and still no real conversation about our ,marriage and how to rebuild it.<P>I'm trying to hang tough. But, even a little bit of progress would be like a world of good right now.<P>--keystone

keystone,<P>As you might know, I was in an emotional affair. I knew it was wrong from the beginning. I knew my feelings for the OW weren't good. I was depressed from the outset. We acknowledged our feelings for each other and tried to remain just friends throughout, but of course it was very difficult, and intimate things crept in.<P>When my wife found out, I did apologize. I felt pretty crappy about the whole thing, because I knew from the beginning that it would be bad for everyone all around. It felt to me like I had destroyed the lives of 5 people! (me, my wife, my son, the OW, the OW's fiance).<P>After we broke it off (pretty much the day after discovery) I didn't do the no contact thing immediately. I was very weak. It's awfully hard... such an addiction!<P>Anyway, don't know if this helps you at all...<P>--andy

I certainly cannot be in your hero list, but I will answer your questions ....<P><BR>Q1: Did you ever apologize to your spouse for having an EA? If so, how long after discovery?<BR>--When I confessed the affair I apologized right then for hurting him. I apologize off and on at least once a month. I am racked with guilt at what I did to him.<P>Q2: When did YOU realize that you were betraying via an emotional affair? Are you still viewing your affair as a "friendship"?<BR>--When the affair first began and we were doing the "friends" thing (no physical) I told everyone we were JUST friends, really good friends ... but I wanted more all along.<P><BR>Q3: Have you broken ALL contact with the OP?<BR>Finally, yes. That's very hard. There are times even now (over a year) that I want to talk to him. The feelings are still very intense ... and while I know he's a jerk lowlife, I do still love him ... I know you don't want to hear that, but I'm just telling you how I'm feeling. I don't want to be with him, know I can't trust him, but he's still very much "there" in my mind/heart.

Keystone - Thank you for the nice compliment. I really need to hear that today.<P><B>Q1: Did you ever apologize to your spouse for having an EA? If so, how long after discovery?</B><BR>My discoery of the affair was in Feb 99. She didn't know that I knew until June 99 when I confronted her about it. At the confrontation. She said she was sorry for hurting me. She never apologized for the horrible things she said to me. She also never apologized for having the affair just the fact that I was hurt.<P><B>Q2: When did YOU realize that you were betraying via an emotional affair? Are you still viewing your affair as a "friendship"?</B><BR>I can't answer the first part for her. In my opinion, it became an emotional affair when secrts were kept about whereabouts and confidences were shared. As for the second part, YES she views it as only a friendship - I view it as a whole lot more. <P><B>Q3: Have you broken ALL contact with the OP?</B><BR>No way. She's at it again. <P>I'm sorry to be so gloomy. Things have taken a turn for the worse for me and I'm rather unstable art this point. <P>SHA<p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited November 30, 1999).]

Airheart,<P>you truly have some of the best responses out here!<P>I too apologized immediately after discovery.<BR>We really did start out as just friends, and my feelings kind of crept up on me. I stopped seeing him a week after discovery, and just this past week cut off all contact. But it is hard, and I am weak. And I will have to see him sometime, as we work for the same company.I am still in the early stages here, and I honestly believe at this point that I'd be happier with him than my H.<BR>I knew better but got involves anyway. I wonder how long before I can convince myself that OM is not "the one". I never felt so sure about things, not even with H. Ever. Not that our marriage has been all bad, but think I went into it with too many doubts. After trying so long to adjust to the aspects of H I don't like, I ask myself why?<BR>Talked with him last night, he has never said EA is why I'm unhappy. SHouldn't because we've been havng the same issues long before. But at the same time, still thinks it's my problem, that he has done all he can. Sorry to get into this on your post, you know how it is, you try and give someone else insight and it reminds you of what's going on in your life.<BR>I guess what I'm saying is that there is hope, it's just hard.

keystone - thought I'd give you my H's version of his EA (though there was some physical -kissing sessions- during the last two to three weeks of the affair. <BR>Q1. H did apologize many times. There was no "discovery" as H disclosed it about three weeks after it ended. First "apologies" came only in the form of "I made a mistake, I'm human, I exercised great restraint". Later (maybe two or three weeks after disclosure) there was true remorse and self loathing.<BR>Q2 H didn't realize it was an EA until nearly a year into their close friendship. He said he "ruled out and didn't want to deal with any other characterization other than friendship." Three months before the affair ended he acknowledged in his therapy that his feelings for the ow were a violation of our marriage. (He then decided to file for divorce.) However, he is still viewing "it" as a friendship up until the last three months of the affair. Neither he nor our marriage counselor will label it an affair. She calls it an "infidelity". He calls it a "distraction".<BR>Q3. H has not broken all contact with ow; they work together. They have however worked out an arrangement where they email each other if they plan to be in the office during other than business hours - H says the understanding is they will never be alone together in the office and that all communication is strictly business. I believe my H as to his intentions but don't trust ow as she is quite manipulative and she did not want to end their "relationship".<BR> I hope this helps. There IS hope!<BR> Simone

Back to the top, plus another question...<P>Q: How do you explain what an "emotional affair" is so that she'll see the parrallel to her relationship with the OM? She doesn't get it, and I'm starting to sound like a broken record! She just doesn't want to see how destructive the "friendships" are!<P>-- keystone

Hi Keystone-<BR>I have not been in the loop too much lately and had been thinking of you and really hoped things were going better for you.<BR>I will try to answer for my H the best I can (he's not here or I'd have him do it).<P>Apologies-immediately upon discovery.<P>Reconizing EA-I'd have to agree with SHA and when it started becoming necessary to hide meetings and conversations. He has since said he tried to stop it when it first became apparent where the road was leading but alas he was weak also.<P>All contact- I think you know the story. YES YES YES! In our case the no contact thing for our part was pretty easy because it became readily apparent that she was a total looney tune after it was over. I (being the best friend and all) had recognized she was one as they say "one fry short of a Happy Meal". He couldn't see it while involved with her emotionally but it became crystal clear by her actions afterward. That made the no contact thing easier because he had no desire to be anywhere near her. She actually started saying things were all his fault and he realized she was nothing like he thought.<P>I would have to say an EA is described as an attachment to someone other than your spouse with whom you feel a special bond and share intimate or personal details about yourself or your marriage in which they have no direct<BR>connection to. Or someone in which you find yourself wanting to spend more time with them than your spouse. Someone who is fulfilling your needs or whom you are ALLOWING to fill your needs.<P>My H really woke up to the fact that things with us could have been different if he would not have allowed her to fill those needs. Once we were on the road to recovery and concentrated on only the two of us filling each others needs it was great. It is very easy to love someone and want to do what makes them happy when you are more or less in a competition to see who can serve the other one more. Does that make sense? Things I didn't enjoy before--lots of "things", I don't have a problem with because I truly feel loved and want to love him back any way I can. That's why in that one post I said to just keep loving and showing and don't give up. Try to push the other guy out by being the one filling those needs. You can find a way I know it. <P>By the way, have you made her laugh in a while? Email her one of those animated greeting cards.Have you laughed in a while? Send yourself one.<P>I am not making light of your situation, I can only begin to imagine the pain. I wish I could sit her down and tell her that she cannot have a guy friend closer than her H, it doesn't work, my personal belief is that you really shouln't even have a friend that is the same gender that close.<P>One other thing, you really can't expect an apology until she sees the error of her ways.<P>Chin up, I will try to be an encouragement for you as Clinton would say "I feel your pain" how ironic-he did the very things that seem to cause the most pain for others.<P>Incidentally- going through Christmas decorations and things I have run across some things from my ex-best friend or OW whatever, and it did bring a lot of emotions back to the surface for me, so although Thanksgiving was a time to give thanks it also was a flood of memories-is there something I can do to make memory fade? In a case like this it makes Alzheimer's look a bit more rosey.<P>Sorry to ramble....<P>D and W

keystone,<P>1) Yes, I apologized to my H about 50 zillion times!! I do NOT think he has forgiven me yet.<P>2) As I have posted before, I had what I would have called an "infatuation" with OM. I would never have called it an EA until H told me I had an affair when I discovered HIS affair. Turns out after reading all the books, he was right - I did have an EA. It took time, effort, energy, focus and love away from my H and went to OM. Even though it was never physical - still an EA. I sometimes think my H doesn't believe it wasn't physical - that I am lying to get us back together.<P>No, I do not consider OM my friend. I consider him a PREDATOR!!<P>3) I still work at same hospital with OM. He is a doctor there. I see him professionally about once a month, and always in a meeting with someone else/others. He doesn't pursue me anymore since I rebuffed him twice for sex, which shows what he was after all the time, anyway. I think I can still work with him because I don't have to see him constantly and daily - that might be problematic. I do not love this man - he is definitely NOT even my type. As a matter of fact, and I told my H this - in many ways I have transferred alot of "hate" to him. I have NO PERSONAL contact with him at all - no e-mails, cards or phone calls!!!!!! Strictly professional. <P>I have offered over and over to quit if it bothers my H that I still work at same hospital. He insists it doesn't, but I wonder if it really does. If H ever indicated in the slightest he wanted to work on our marriage and he wanted me to quit, I would in a heartbeat - despite my fantastic job!!!!!! Family first!!<P>Roll Me Away<BR><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

keystone,<P>Some signs of an emotional affair. It can contain all these elements or just some:<P>1. Very close friendship. Discussion, sharing, commiseration of intimate marital problems.<P>2. Hiding aspects of the relationship with the OP from spouse (meetings, secret email accounts, separate pager, private phone calls, whatever).<P>3. Addiction to seeing/talking to/having contact with the OP. It's a "friendship" you don't want to live without!<P>4. Talking about "What if's"... what if we met 15 years ago? what if we were divorced? etc.<P>5. Big time sexual flirty behavior. Bigtime sexual tension.<P>6. Giving each other "the eye".<P>7. Having private jokes only shared between you and OP.<P>8. Wanting to spend (or actually spending) more time with OP then with spouse.<P>8. Ignoring your spouse in lieu of the OP. Ignoring the spouse's feelings. Defending the OP, especially when under attack from spouse.<P>My EA contained every single one of these signs. <P>--andy

airheart --<P>I realize the differences between a 'friendship" and an EA. The challenge is trying to get my W to see it. She just doesn't want to accept it. i think alot has to do with the fact that nothing physical occured (according to her), there was no affair. I know it's still an affair. It's trying to get her to accept that fact.<P>Therefore, no apologizes, no breakoff in contact with OM and third party connections, and no sincere approach to really making an effort to rebuild. After all, this is all MY PROBLEM!<P>This valley is getting lower. Make it a quick sand pit!<P>--keystone