JL,<BR> Well, today is the big day at the squadron. I did everything that I could for her last night, candle light dinner, fixed her a bath, a massage, and.... <P>I went into it once again with your insight to be here for her. Hopefully it has worked.<P>She told me last night when I got home from work, that when I dropped her off after lunch, she talked to a Maj. (that knows the situation) and asked if he could send OM somewhere else for the rest of the day. He did.<P>When I asked her why she did this, her reply was that she knew it made me uncomfortable knowing she was working with him. <P>I don't know whether to belive her that she talked to the Maj. or, if she was only saying this to me so I wouldn't be upset.<P>I'm having trouble trying to figure this one out. I want to believe her so badly!<P>Any thoughts?<P>I'll post back later and let you know how things went today.<P>JW

JW--<BR>Trust is so hard, isn't it? But, I would trust her on this (that she asked to have them separated yesterday)...it really sounds like you are both trying your hardest, and I think trust will slowly grow again.<BR>Let me reiterate what JL has told you...she probably feels guilty and stressed when she sees him. If I were her, I would also feel like I'd allowed myself to be used...making me feel like dirt.<BR>Every marriage, whether touched by infidelity or not, has times when one partner has to really reach out to the other, and carry more burdens than seems reasonable. If we only did what was fair and reasonable, that would be an equitable business partnership. It is love that makes us able to go the extra miles , esp. when the terrain is so rough! <BR>You are doing great. Good luck on today's events!!!<BR>Kathi

JW,<P>I'll be gone next week on business trip. So this will probably be my last post for a few days. Just keep doing what you are doing; Being the best H you can. <P>Let's talk about the trust thing. Most people believe that you either trust people or you distrust people. Black or white, yes or no. That really isn't the situation. It is more complex. Do you trust someone you have met for the first time? Do you distrust them? For me the response is neither. Trust isn't the issue. I deal with the data and see how a person reacts to things, little clues, etc. You know what I mean.<P>Now, let us take your wife. You have trusted her and she violated that trust. Now you distrust her: Very reasonable. However, she isn't asking you to trust her really. Think about this. You are not staking your life, your fortune, or your health on her. You want to be able to but you are not being asked to do this. You need to move to the state of meeting a new person. For all of your past history, she is a new person. <P>Treat her well, like someone you want to impress. Treat her as someone you would like to know well enough to trust in the future. Don't evaluate everything in the trust perspective. If she said she requested it, the assume she did if you don't have data either for or against that statement. It doesn't really matter at some level. <P>Your problems are with her and not the OM. While his presence can be a hinderence to your recovery, your response to her will carry more wait right now.<P>JW, treat her like someone you would like to become your friend. Evaluate on real data and not speculation. Don't put words in her mouth nor try to anticipate what she will do. You do what you know how to do, love her and take care of her. She has to handle her part of the picture.<P>I know I sound like I am painting some abstract logic tree, when there is real pain and suffering going on. And you have every right to feel these things, but you are new people to each right now. <P>She has no idea how you will respond. You could say she doesn't trust you either. Neither of you have been in the position before. You are new people to each other. What has to be decided is can you become friends that trust each other again. You have the love part for her and hopefully she will develop it again for you, if she has lost it.<P>JW, all you have to do and all you can do: is do the right thing. That is what you heart and mind tell you to do, not necessarily what your feelings tell you to do. Make her your friend again. Build up a level in trust in her that she has never had before. She knows she has hurt you, but she doesn't know how strong a man you are. JW, it is show time . You are that strong.<P>Go for it my man. Give her a good dose of love and affection.<P>I hope when I get back things are better. But do remember you have been given (free and without you asking ) a ticket on the rollercoaster. There will be ups and downs.<P>Meanwhile, keep up the good work.<P>God Bless You and Your Wife,<P>JL<p>[This message has been edited by Just Learning (edited February 05, 2000).]

Everyone, here's an update of yesterdays events.<P>She came home from the base yesterday and was acting really secretive. She got out of her uniform, showered, put on some nice clothes did her makeup and left without telling me where she was going. I lost it as I saw her pull out of the driveway.<P>I sat here at the house crying with an understanding of what I thought was obviously happening. I actually felt lower than I did the night that I found out about the A. I didn't think that was possible...<P>About two hours later she came home. As she walked down the hallway towards me, I just wanted to bolt for the door, I didn't even want to look at her. I couldn't believe she did it to me again! <P>This is where things did a complete 180! <P>I had just opened my mouth getting ready to ask her where she had been, when she lifted up her shirt...She had gotten her belly button pierced!!!!<P>I couldn't believe it!!!<P>I had mentioned a while back (6 or 7 months ago)to her how much I liked the way it looked when a woman had a "six pack" stomach with a belly button ring. And at a lean and tone 6.5% bodyfat she definetely has the right stomach for it.<P>I WAS SOOO SHOCKED!!!! She had told me "NO WAY IN HELL!!!" when i mentioned it before.<P>I couldn't even say anything to her! After I picked my jaw and tongue up off the floor, she said to me "didn't you find my card?"<P>Of course I hadn't found the card because I was too caught up in wallowing in my own sorrow and self pitty when she walked out the door.<P>I had to sit down. I went to the living room and when I sat down on the couch i spotted it! Sitting in plain sight on the coffee table.<P>I opened the evelope and read the card. It said: Just a little card to say....<P>I WANT TO RIP YOUR CLOTHES OFF!<P>And hand written at the bottom was, "don't worry about where I am or who I'm with, I'll be home with a big surprise just for you.<P>I felt like sh*t!! Here I was moping around the house not trusting her at all, thinking that she really didn't care about me anymore. When the whole time she was doing something for me that she knew I would like.<P>I am an [censored]!! She had obviously gave me the opportunity to trust her and I didn't!<P>I know this is a long post but, I'm almost done...<P>We stayed up real late talking, and for the first time in two months SHE actually started a conversation about the A. <P>She told me that she had finally figured things out... she told me that she hadn't meant to fall in love with the OM, but when they started talking(as friends) that he reminded her more and more of me. And her being lonely and missing me so much, that when she was with him she said it was like she was spending time with me. <P>This confuses the daylights out of me!! Because if he reminded her so much of me, why would she not want to talk to me when she had the chance?<P>She also told me somethings about him last night that show he is not much of a man at all...He's divorced because he found out that his wife had cheated on him. <P>Which brings me to question both of them even more. If he knew that he left his wife because she cheated, why did he do it to my W ?? And if she knew that he left his wife because his W cheated why was she willing to do the same?<P>Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions???<P>JW

JW--I was so glad to read that things are goig better. I know trust will still be hard at times, but that's OK. Harley actually claims that no one should trust their spouse 100%...we are all human, and under certain conditons, any of us could slip.<BR>Obviously your wife is trying very hard, as are you, and I predict ya'll will do great.<BR>As for your questions... my 2cents worth:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> ... she hadn't meant to fall in love with the OM, but when they started talking(as friends) that he reminded her more and more of me. And her being lonely and missing me so much, that when she was with him she said it was like she was spending time with me... if he reminded her so much of me, why would she not want to talk to me when she had the chance? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Because, by that time, she was conflicted over feelings for you/feelings for him. BTW, Conversation is often what starts affairs...then feelings arise, built on the good feelings conversation brings...then sex comes in. She started out talking to him just for the conversation. Then, her feelings got involved, confused. Talking to you probably made her feel more guilty, more conflicted, so she avoided it. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If he knew that he left his wife because she cheated, why did he do it to my W ?? And if she knew that he left his wife because his W cheated why was she willing to do the same?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You DO realize that looking for logic here isn't going to work, don't you? Affairs are built on feelings and confusion, not logic!!! But, you knew that already, didn;t you?<BR>Enjoy the belly-ring, and what it says about your wife wanting to do something special for you!<BR>Kathi

Kathi,<BR> I can't even begin to tell you and everyone else on here that has offered advice, how much it helps knowing that there are people out there that are willing to listen to my problems. Thank you!!!<P>My W just came home for lunch, while she was here she said something that really confused me, maybe you can help.<P>She seemed upset, so I asked her what was wrong. Her reply was that she was upset that I am handling everything so calmly.<P>What in the world does that mean????<P>JW<P><BR>"GA TE GA TE PARRA GA TE PARASAM GA TE,BODHISVAHA."<BR>(look beyond the upside down views of yesterday, and there will be no pain or hindrance in the future)<BR>-Bodhitsattva Kwan Yin<BR>Buddhist Goddess of Compassion<P><BR>[This message has been edited by JW (edited February 06, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by JW (edited February 06, 2000).]

JW,<P>I haven't left yet. But let me suggest somethng. Bring her to this site and show her what you have posted. She will see that you have been in great pain, but you are trying to safe your marriage. It is that important to you to do so, that you have been willing to suffer the pain.<P>Also if she read and understood the principles here, she would better understand what you have been going through and why you have acted as you have. <P>Of course she is confused, the OM divorced his W for adultery, and you haven't threatened that yet. Instead you have been showing her love.<P>I think your W is ready to learn how to rebuild a marriage and maintain once it is rebuilt. Bring her here and even have her post if she feels like it.<P>I think things are going well, JW. As I said in my previous post to you, she will have to learn to trust you also. You are a new man to her.<P>Keep up the good work JW.<P>God Bless You and Your W<P>JL

Well everyone,<P>I'm going to try to make this my last post for a couple of days. I'm going to see if I can handle things without asking for advice a couple of times a day.<P>I finally think that we are really starting to make progress. I brought her to this sight last night, she said that she knew that I hurt but had no idea just how bad until she read all of my posts. <P>At first she was upset that I was seeking help from others, she thought that everyone would be bashing her for what she had done. But she quickly realized that not a single person here has ever said anything negative about her.<P>She opened up about her feelings of how I'm handling everything that she has done. She has been confused and feeling guilty about her actions, and told me that if it had been the other way around. I would have come to an empty house if she had found out. And that it didn't make sense to her that I have never gotten angry towards her. It HAS upset me and she knows it.<P>She said that she would feel better if I would do it to her now...I DON'T THINK SO!!!<BR>I tried explaining to her that two wrongs don't make a right! She's obviously feeling real guilty about it still. Hopefully that will fade soon.<P>I'll be back in two or three days to give an update on how things have gone.<P>Thanks for being here for me,<BR>JW

I'm glad you brought her here...that was a great suggestion, JL.<P>My H also says he would be much angrier if the situation was reversed. He told me at one point that he did not deserve the kindness and support...I told him that he's my H and I love him, and that makes him entitled to all the support I can give. <P>Let us know how things go. You know there will still be ups and downs, but you are doing great!!!<BR>hugs-<BR>Kathi

Hi Everyone,<P>Just wanted to give a midweek update...<P>Things are still rolling along rather smoothly, a few ups and downs but not really anything for me stress about.<P>She's still running into him just about everyday, she says she can't avoid it...but i trust her when she says nothing is going to happen.<P>Yesterday she was a half hour late getting home for lunch, my imagination started getting the best of me. But I've come to realize that I can't freak out about every little thing like that. How am I ever going to trust her again, if I'm not willing to let myself trust her when she's trying so hard. She says that she had to work through lunch a little, although it's hard for me to believe at this point, I truly think she's being honest. <BR>Besides, she said if I didn't believe her I could call SMSgt.(last name goes here). <P>I wanted to call but, saw that as a big LB, not trusting her.<P>The weekend is almost here, and if I can make it, that will be one whole week without a problem <P>This may sound really strange but I feel closer to her now than I have in a long time.<P>Well, once again thank you all!!<BR>I'll give another update on saturday, I'll probably still be lurking in the meantime <P>JW<P>PS. Kathi, I am enjoying the belly-ring, it's great!! <BR><p>[This message has been edited by JW (edited February 09, 2000).]

Sounds great! And, feeling closer than ever at this point doesn't sound at all odd to me--my H and I have that same feeling. At this point (almost a month since he told me of his EA) he still has feelings of withdrawal for her, but we are feeling very close, talking a lot, having great sex. This kind of thing brings an immense amount of hurt...it sort of "strips" away your defenses, and lays open your vulnerability. If you let it, it also gives the opportunity to truly love and care for the other person's deepest fears and needs. I think that is what you and I are both seeing...<BR>Kathi<BR>

Kathi, <BR>Glad to hear things are going so well for you too <P>Things kind of took a slide back down today <BR>I didn't have to work today, and when i'm home alone my mind starts playing tricks on me, kind of letting myself think too much into things if you know what I mean?<P>Everything seemed alright last night. Except she was really "interested" and I wasn't. I had just got home from work and it had been more stressful than usual. (I work in a medical diagnostic laboratory, stress is always really high!!) <P>Last night was probably the worst night there I had ever had. So when I came home I just needed to relax! She had other plans...<P>She kept trying to get really affectionate with me but I just wasn't into it. I didn't refuse it but, I did make it clear I just wasn't in the mood.<P>Now that I'm here today alone, I worry that she might be seeking what she didn't get at home with her H with some one who is interested.<P>So tell me, is this just my mind getting to me?<P>James

Oddly, last night was not good at my place either... He leaves today for a biz trip, and I'm flying up tomorrow to meet him & spend some time w/him over the weekend. He had some issue come up before he left the office yesterday and had to work on it at home since he'll be traveling today. Even after he got it squared away, he was very quiet, tired, not interested, tho I was.<P>So, today I'm sure he was quiet bcs he was thinking of her (maybe he really was, and maybe not, who knows), and I'm apprehensive abt what the weekend will be like. <BR>Guess this is why they call it a see-saw, but I HATE these ups & downs...<P>As for your wife, don't let it get to you...Given how well ya'll have been doing, I think you can turn her down once in a while w/o her running off to the OM. (Besides, affairs are usually not really about just sex). <BR>Reign in that imagination! Hope you two have a good weekend...<BR>Kathi

Oh Kathi, I just screwed up big time!!!!!!<P>She didn't come home for lunch today(she had the car). I was already in a bad state of mind and didn't need her not showing up when I was expecting her to.<P>To make things worse she didn't call to tell me she wouldn't be home... She called about a half hour ago, to say she was sorry about not making it home for lunch. She was attending a going away party for some people that are leaving the service in the next couple of months...<P>Well guess who is leaving in a couple of months... Thats right! Him!!!! She also conveniately added that she has to work a twelve hour shift today so she won't be home at 3. instead it will now be around 7:30 tonight!!<P>Now you know how I've been feeling already today so this probably won't be a big surprise... I committed a HUGE GARGANTUAN LB!! I called her a liar And then proceeded to tell her EXCACTLY the way I felt about everything! And added where she could go, and what she could do when she got there! Oh my God! I can't believe I did it!!!<P>Well, baby steps forward, and rocket pack leap backwards...when I finally stop I don't know where I'm going to be.<P>I'm dead!!!<P>What in the heck to happened to me???????<BR>Was that just building up in me and finally escaped??<BR>I don't know what to do now!!!! <BR> James <P>[This message has been edited by JW (edited February 10, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by JW (edited February 10, 2000).]

HEY...it is really, really hard to do what you are doing. Don't be hard on yourself. Honestly, I think you have done wonderfully so far.<BR>I don't know what her reaction was, but even if it was angry, I bet she'll understand your feelings after she has a chance to think.<BR>You both have been pretty reasonable and caring thru this so far. Don't you think she will understand that you are trying your best, but are still human? I've been able to avoid LBs for the most part, but have told my H in a calm way how angry I was at first, how hurt, how I'm trying, but trusting him to be truthful is hard. He understood it pretty well...tho it was hard for him to hear.<BR>I'd suggest you apologise to your wife for jumping to conclusions & calling her a liar; let her know you are trying your best to trust her, but that it is hard and you are a little insecure right now. Ask her to help you by staying in close communication ... I really think she'll understand. <BR>Everyone slips up sometimes...you've just proved that you are no exception. Hard to learn that, huh?<P>Kathi

Kathi, <P>About me be human, I don't feel like it right now. i'm pretty sure you know what i feel like <P>IF, she calls me back (I wouldn't if I was her!) I will definately apologize. I just hope she'll understand <P>She got real upset with me when I said it, I could hear the tears in her voice I feel sooo bad! <P>And when my ranting and raving ended, she said that she had to go back to work. She said goodbye and "I love you" but I didn't say it back...I just hung up the phone <BR>I have never hurt her before, but I know i did then <P>I'll keep you updated on what happens next...<P>Any suggestions on what I can do to make it up to her when she gets home tonight??<P>The Big Jerk (formerly known as James)

Kathi and JL,<P>This is off the subject of my problems...<P>There is a new member to the forum: going to make it, she has the post: just not getting any easier.<P>Her story is a lot like mine, with the distrusting still after the A is stopped etc...<P>If you get a chance, check out her post.<P>Thanks,<BR>The Big Jerk (formerly known as James)

My best suggestion is simply to be honest with her and let her know how sorry you are; how much you are trying; share your feelings in a non-LB manner. IMHO, that's better than trying to "make it up to her" with flowers or gifts.<BR>I really do think she'll understand. Both of you will have bad moments, but it will get better.<BR>Kathi<BR>

Kathi,<P>Well she did call back(big surprise to me!)<P>As soon as I heard her voice i was going to apolgize, but she did it first! She apologized for upsetting me, and for hurting me,and for lying to me for so long, and cheating on me, and for etc. etc. etc...<P>She wouldn't stop. She said that they were really busy doing a preflight inspection and had to go, she said goodbye and hung up.<P>If you could only see the "deer in the headlights" look on my face.<P>i didn't get to say a word!<P>What's going on with that???<P>The Big Jerk (formerly known as James)

James:<BR> Sounds good...you can do your half of the apologising later (just don;t forget!). Keep in mind that ya'll are both emotional wrecks right now, and try as you might, these things are gonna happen. The important thing is that you are working together to heal together!<BR>