Here are my comments to you all. <P><B>Betrayed</B><BR>Thanks for your thoughts. I certainly am leaning towards contacting the OM's wife. Someone's going to have to talk me out of that. I also starting looking at punching bags - I like that idea. I have a picture ready to put on it.<P><B>Roll Me Away</B><BR>My emotions are not as raw today - I'm trying to think clearly. I don't believe my wife would want a divorce - and I don't either. She is very prideful and stubborn in her ways. I really don't know how she would respond to an ultimatum. I'm still mulling over my options and I'm trying to see the big picture.<P><B>Nellie1</B><BR>You sound as depressed as I do. I'm sorry. There has to be good somewhere in all of this. <P><B>Just Learning</B><BR>You ask a lot of good questions. I don't have answers for all of them. I do want to meet with my counselor before I make any big decisions. There are lots of things I want to do right now. Like tell OM's wife, she needs to know if she doesn't already. "Complete" honesty with my wife seems to back fire every time I choose that path. I'm sure my wife would say they are still "just friends". She doesn't buy into this emotional affair stuff. She's still blinded by that. She also doesn't know I'm going to a counselor - I haven't told her yet. Don't know when I will. I don't feel in control. I know I could hurt a lot of folks if I did decide to air all this dirty laundry - but, that isn't my goal. Thanks JL, your insight is priceless to me - don't lose that.<P><B>awoken</B><BR>I still want to succeed, I want us all to succeed. I don't know exactly when my wife and the OM are together. I do think the OM's wife should know. I think that would be fair. Not leaving the house seems to be unanimous. I don't want either of us to leave. Awoken, thank you for your kind words. Gosh, if anything I say can help anyone then maybe there is some good that can come from this. Thank you.<P><B>Kat1</B><BR>Thank you so much for posting. I really want to believe that this is just a minor set back and that things will fade with more time. I'm just trying to figure it all out.<P><B>nlitend</B><BR>Thanks for posting - I have been wondering how you were doing. I am getting meds. I have copies of all emails between her and OM. I rarely look at it because it's a sure bet I'll be depressed afterwards. As I stated, I'm leaning toward telling OM's wife. I know this is a love buster, but hey she needs to know. I hope neither of us has to move out, that's the worst scenario I think. Thanks for the advice.<P><B>Zip</B><BR>yet another vote for calling the OM's wife - thank you. I also like the idea about confronting OM too - I have a very strong urge to do that. Thanks for posting.<P><B>Dr. K</B><BR>Thanks for not hating me; you mean a lot and I value your advice. I just need to do this local therapist first. <BR>I like everything you say. You lay out the facts pretty well. I am not bent on divorce - far from it. What I read does kill me that is absolutely true. I am staying consistent with my Plan A I have not wavered at all. She is cherished more than most women could dream of. Please, please, please explain to why I should not tell the OM's wife anything about what I know. I am certain she has no idea any of this has ever taken place. Doesn't she need to know. I do not want to punish her, I simply want her to know and start down the road of recovery too. I also have a strong need to get in the face of the OM. I've never met him, I have never spoken to him, I think he only knows about me from what my wife would have told him. I think he needs to see me. I think he needs to know there is a husband that goes with the wife he's messing with. I know it would be a love buster, but I can't help what I feel. Talk me out of these K. Everyone seems to think I should do these things. <P>I don't think I'm losing my love for my wife. I'm just hurt and angry all over again. I hate this feeling. I hate this mess. I hate always being the one to keep it together. I am trying my best to do this K. I want to do all the right steps. I have done nearly everything you have asked except go to Steve. I want to see a local person first. Other than that doctor, I have followed your advice to the letter - I think.<P><B>Lone Star</B><BR>Thanks for your thoughts Lone Star. I know you don't post much anymore, and I do appreciate your insight as one who has "made it".<P><B>jenny</B><BR>What a bad last few weeks this has been. I've been thinking about you and your hubby. I hope you are well. Thank you for posting it means a lot to me.<P><B>sue</B><BR>You're right about no contact. If only I could be the one to make that decision. But, I can't it has to come from her. I've been giving her every reason to choose me. This business gets so complicated. Thank you for your thoughts and advice.<P><B>professorg</B><BR>You're a good man Rob. Your perseverance is an example. I am praying more now and trying to lean on His word. Thank you for answering my questions.<P><B>julsv</B><BR>No need to apologize for being a junior member. Wisdom comes form experience and it sounds like you have travel this road too. I like what you said about trusting God's goodness for me. I'm trying so hard to see His direction. I'm am resolved to get through this with all I have. Thank you for posting to me.<P><B>cl</B><BR>Thank you - the virtual hugs are much needed.<P><B>to all</B><BR>Thank you for all your advice. I could not have imagined such a wonderful out pouring of love, encouragement, and thoughtful advice. I cherish each of your opinions. You are my friends. Thank you again.<P>SHA<P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved. <P><BR>

SHA - To start with, I just want to let you know once again how much I admire your forbearance and patience with your W (and the way you're taking care of your kids). It's only human to fume a bit in such a situation. And it's good to hear that you and your W had a great lovemaking session. From your description (especially of those long kisses) sounds like your W may be coming around after all? (I wouldn't try too hard to figure this out!)<P>As to emailing the OM's W, you can do it more or less anonymously. Set up a free email account under a fictitious name on some site like Microsoft's Hotmail, and send the email from there. Unfortunately, Hotmail also sends along a lot of routing info garbage that might include what's called the IP node address of your computer. If the feds wanted to track you down using this, they probably could, but I don't think the OM's W is going to be able to. I've actually sent my W fictitious emails this way, and she never figured out who the crank emailer was who knew about her affair. (I guarentee, if she had figured it out, I would have heard about it!) Do it, man.<P>Otherwise, sounds like things are looking up a bit. Keep giving your W those hair rubs! R & B,<P>--Wex

Sir Hurts Alot,<BR>I did read your post yesterday. It bore a huge hole in my chest, full of pain. I am so damned naive, but still fail to understand how someone who claims to "love" you can do such a thing. You are indeed a stronger and braver man than I, to stay in the same home while all of this is happening right before you. But your children are very important. Ironically, I understand if in your heart what is most important is regaining the trust and love of the one whom you've loved so dearly all this time. But the idea of my wife having sex with another man repulses me and delivers a pain far worse than any physical pain that could be inflicted on this earth. I admire your resolve, and committment.<P>You advised that I woo her back and never go back to my old ways. This is the exact remedy I'm now implementing. She says she's waiting for the other shoe to drop, for me to go back to the old ways. She says the "new" things I'm doing are good, but "feel very wierd coming from me". I ask her if they might feel better coming from someone else and she answers maybe. Is it possible that I'm doing too much? Or, is her current reaction on course with this type situation?<P>SamH

<B>Wex</B><BR>Thanks for the info. I have sent my self an anonymous email just to see if I could track it to me. The site ID is attached and it does peg it to my company or at home to my ISP. I thought there was an anonymous email site, I'll have to do some searching. Thanks, again.<P><B>SamH</B><BR>I wouldn't refer to yourself as naive - your here learning, and trying to save your marriage as the rest of us are. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But the idea of my wife having sex with another man repulses me and delivers a pain far worse than any physical pain that could be inflicted on this earth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You have no idea until it becomes true in your own life. The easiest thing to do is quit. The right thing isn't necessarily the easiest thing. There are other here that have encountered far more than I. Some have become pregant by an OM and are raising the child. Sam, you never know what your true strength is until you're tested way beyond what you think you can handle. You are right in your quote about infidelity being the worse pain that a human can inflict on another. It's not just the sex part either, the emotional bond that gets created seems insurmountable sometimes. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She says she's waiting for the other shoe to drop, for me to go back to the old ways. She says the "new" things I'm doing are good, but "feel very wierd coming from me".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>She will keep wondering for a very long time too. I don't know the depth of the valley that was created between you and your wife, but for me it was deep. My overnight transformation over a year ago, was meet with severe hostility. I didn't give up. I found new ways to met her needs. My wife refused to fill out the emotional needs questionaire, so I had to guess and did a lot of trial an error. The two keys to a woman's heart are <B>conversation</B> and <B>touch</B> specifically non-sexual touch. you need to be a great conversationalist. It's hard at first, but my wife and I can talk for hours now about almost anything (not this). As for touch, you would not believe how much I give my wife every single day; hair rubs, foot rubs, back rubs, you name it. It took a long time for her to accept any touch from me, but now I'm addicted to giving it to her. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is it possible that I'm doing too much? Or, is her current reaction on course with this type situation?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>She'll let you know if it's too much. She'll also let you know when you stop giving. She's looking for long term changes not short term stuff. A dozen roses and a box of chocolates won't fix this problem. Her reaction is in line. As I stated earlier, a lot of mine was met with hostility so I had to get through that.<P>If your wife tuly isn't involved with someone else right now, I think you will be able to recover pretty quick (6 months or so). If she's in the early stages of an affair, your in for the long ride. <P>A good book for you is "Husband 101". Lots of neat things to do and not do for your wife. Keep that in your hip pocket and do all of them consistently and you'll get there. Keep reading, keep posting, keep working on the new you.<P>SHA<p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited December 01, 1999).]

SHA, <P>Listen, I know the answer to the question about the annoymous email because the W of the OM sent meanie-grams to my workplace, and my job forced me to file a report...<P>Unless a police report is filed re: threatening email, and the person pursues further legal action, there is no way that the IP # can be traced down to a phone number by the recipient, at least not <B>legally</B>. <P>That means, no way that the recipient can get it unless he files a police report. And then, <B>only the police</B> can obtain the phone number of the sender from the service (like Yahoo, hotmail, etc.) if, and only if, a the recipient choses to press charges. <P>How's that??<P>------------------<BR>Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss it you are among the stars!!

Oh, SHA, I am sooo sorry. I've been reading your posts and applauding your efforts long before I ever started posting.<P>I'm glad you have a plan. I do think it's time to take some more action. But, I agree with most here, this setback is not necessarily the end. <P>My prayers are with you. <P>Lori

HI SHA<P>I'm so sorry for what you are going through.<P>I have no idea what to say, except this one thing about the children and you moving.<P>Someone said that the children need stability and morality. They were right.<P>If your W won't move out of the house, could you not move, but also take the children.?<P>Start looking for a house/apartment to rent now, and have removalists come in when she's not around ? I think if it was me personally, I would be telling the children what is going on, that Daddy and they are moving to a new house, and Mummy will be staying in the old house. I would also say something like "Mummy just needs a bit of time by herself at the moment, and we need to give her that time and space." (Can you tell my children are very young!!!) Modify it obviously depending on the ages of your children.<P>I agree, why should you have to move, however, if she won't, you go. But take those children with you. Don't let them down. Your W, and every other betrayer here are not thinking clearly, they're not thinking at all. Even if you moved, without the children, when she wanted her time with him - who would she call on to babysit. You.<BR>You might as well offer those children stability, morality and all your love, at this difficult time.<P>I also agree with the trust fund for the children. Your W doesn't need to know about this action at this particular point in time. You are protecting your children, and your children's futures.<P>Please hang on to those children, don't let them get caught in the middle. They need one parent who is 'sane'.<P>One point I would like to make, I feel so strongly about this, is that the children must know that this is not their fault, that both parents love them, and that it is OK for them to love BOTH parents. It is also OK to cry, to see Daddy cry, and for you to let them know that their hugs make you feel better.<P>I'm sending a big hug for you, and I'll be thinking of you.<P>Take care of you, and those children<P>Jo<BR>

Hey SHA -<P>This "Husband 101".....I want to know if they have classes someplace and if I can go and participate in the final exams?<P>All this talk of hair rubs, back rubs, foot rubs......shoot - I'd settle for a punch in the arm at this point!!!<P>AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!<P>God, I love you MB guys!!!!! You too gals but I'm not that way.....yet!! <P>LOL!!!!!!!!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

SHA,<BR>Your response to my questions verged on brilliance. Thanks for what is clearly very clear headed logical strategy - with a ton of potent emotions attached in the most positive of all ways.<BR>As I said before, your strength is remarkable. I'm so incredibly encouraged that so many who have felt depths of pain far worse than I'd ever imagined have so much hope that all will one day be better than ever. <P>I surprised my wife and met her for lunch today at her job. It was a good time, but again she kept saying "it feels wierd". As we walked back to her building holding hands, she slowly tried to "release" my hand as we neared her building. I questioned her about it - she did not deny it, but then held on tight (but clearly reluctantly) in response. I've been wondering ever since why she didn't want to be seen holding my hand near her building. I'm trying to stop asking myself this question, out of fear that the answer may be rather painful.<P>SamH

<B>{{{{{{{{{{SHA}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>I'm sorry to hear that things are not going well ... I do understand, believe me. It's been 14.5 months since I found out about the affair, and 12.5 months since he moved out. Last year at this time, we were in Florida together, enjoying each other's company and the 85 degree temperatures.<P>Over the summer, I too, thought things were going so well, there was light at the end of the tunnel... and this fall avalanches have fallen down, covering the end of that tunnel.<P>But you know what? I'm too far down the tunnel to give up and go back. I've picked myself up, dusted myself off and I'm going onward. I love my husband, and I'm going to continue to stand for my marriage.<P>Listen to K - he hasn't steered you wrong yet. And go over to the Divorce Busting forum and read the posts by "David" there. No LB's in sight ...<P>Hugs and prayers coming your way, SHA...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P>

I think It's ok to feel what you feel. Its hard to set things aside like they never happend. For some people they just ignore it. After something like this happens it feels like someone just ripped out your heart and ran over it with chains. I hope you find your peace soon and the children will be alright. I'm going through the same thing I just haven't made a decision yet. It seems that It is my decision if our wonderful perfect family stays together or not, Eventhough I did nothing wrong and neither did you.<P>god bless

SHA,<P>OK I may make you angry, but the gloves are coming off !<P>Has your wife lost her mind !?<P>I'm sorry, but I see how much the men on this board (You , Chris, Rob, Wex, ect.. ect.. ) put into saving your marriages, and I can't help but think how many of us would give ANYTHING for a h who cared that much for us.<P>Yet some of these wives have no idea what what they have in men like you.<P>Trust God SHA, thats all you can do now.<P>I'm going to slip back into lurker mode , but I'm here at least once a day. Please know I respect you and am thinking of and praying for you !<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SHA}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P><P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

<B>new_beginning</B><BR>Thank you. I will keep your advice in mind should I decide to tell the OM's wife anonymously.<P><B>lostva</B><BR>Lori, thank you for your prayers. I'm trying to do what is right and good and I sincerely pray this setback is not the end. <P><B>bonnet</B><BR>My kids are the reason my wife never left, and right now they're the reason I'm not leaving. They are a blessing in many regards. Knowing my wife, she would tell me to take the oldest kids and she would keep the younger ones. She offered that to me a year ago when this all started. I just can't imagine what to tell our kids if it comes to that. The oldest one suspected something many months ago and thought mom and dad were getting a divorce. I'm not so sure about crying in front of the kids. I know it makes them very uncomfortable being that I am a rock in their eyes. Thank you so much.<P><B>Sheba</B><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>All this talk of hair rubs, back rubs, foot rubs......shoot - I'd settle for a punch in the arm at this point!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL!!! You certainly know how to boost someone's spirits!!! A punch in the arm - you deserve so much more than that!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You too gals but I'm not that way.....yet!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFLOL!!! Don't go there Sheba!!! That's icky.<P><B>SamH</B><BR>I'm glad I can help. The "feeling weird" stuff will be there for a while. Fight through it. After a while you and your wife will become comfortable with your new relationship. Don't read in to her reactions too much. A "new" you will take some time to get use to. I have every bit of faith that you will be OK. We're here for you.<P><B>terri</B><BR>You know I miss your old signature quote. Thanks for the hugs. You certainly give me hope. Your trials are more severe than mine. You're a very strong lady. What is the URL to the Divorce Busting forum? I guess I could do a search. Thank you so much.<P><B>camjon</B><BR>I feel for you. It does sound like we are in similar situations. Keep posting.<P><B>Deb</B><BR>Hey lurker. I'm glad you posted. Yes, my wife has lost her mind - I'm convinced of that. As you know, when the cloud of infatuation surrounds a betrayer they are blinded to everything around them. I'm certainly not perfect Deb. I hurt her in the past - neglect. I'm reaping those seed I guess. But, I have been doing all I can to keep us together. I love her. I know what it means to cherish someone now. My one true regret is that I wish I knew all this stuff I know now a couple of years ago. I am giving this over to God - fully. I can't manipulate things anymore. I have to let go and let God do His work. Thank you did for coming out of hiding.<P><B>TO ALL</B><BR>I will close this thread now. I see that it has offended some folks and I never in my wildest imagination <B>ever</B> thought that would happen. I appreciate every response because I know it came from your heart. You all are my true friends and I cherish your wisdom and encouragement. <P>Thank you so very much.<P>SHA <P>------------------<BR>There is only one happiness in life, to love and be loved. <P><BR><B>Oops. I guess I can't close it. you have to be an administrator to do that. So, please don't post to this thread anymore. Thank you.</B><p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited December 02, 1999).]

SHA - Just read your response to SamH. Man, you are a real treasure to this forum! Regards, blessings and many, many well-wishes (call them prayers if you like),<P>--Wex