Hello, all. It's been a while(over a month) since my last original post. Been mostly lurking with an occasional reply, but it's time for an update for anyone interested.<P>My last post was just after our anniversary, which wife forgot even while remembering to sign her apartment lease, on January 7. She will finally be moving on February 12 after much waffling on her part. The impetus that finally made her move was the fact that her sister is visiting from Canada next week and she wanted to be in the apartment when she got here. She's not moving much heavy stuff, so a friend of mine and I are going to truck the stuff over.<P>It's been a weird month since I posted. We are talking much, much more and arguments are less and less destructive. I had to go to Germany on business in the middle of the month and just before I left, I told her that I was feeling about her and about us better than I had felt in 10 years. She said it was true for her, too. I've seen a psychiatrist on three occasions now, and she has decided not to put me on meds right now. Guess I must be handling it OK, but doesn't feel like it at times.<P>OM broke his leg while x-country skiing and she has once been to his house to clean and such. She asked me how I felt about it before she even called and I told her if she was just helping out a "friend", that I had no problem with it. The day she did it, she made sure before she left that I had her cell phone number, his home number and that she would call just before she left. I asked if OM would have a problem if I called and she said "No, of course not". She was there for a total of two hours and called right before leaving. When she got home she was all smiles, hugging and kissing me. I think she was grateful that I let her do it, but she never said anything.<P>I've been told by the psych. and my therapist that I am not doing enough to express how I feel to W. In fact, the psych said that W didn't seem to have any problems "trampling" my feelings and basically tried to make me see that I was letting myself be a doormat with all of her waffling. I related this to W with the expected reaction. But, she has been better about telling me things that she hasn't wanted to touch on before.<P>Another crisis erupted at her work. She is part of a two-person team and her partner is transferring to another project. Her boss told her to give him a list of people she would like to work with and another list of people she would not want to work with. OM was not on either list, but he did send an e-mail of interest to her boss. Making a long story short, guess who got the job?? Yeah, OM. I blew a gasket at this because when her boss asked for the "NO" list, he told her she didn't have to supply any reasons and she didn't for the people on the list. She could have excluded OM without explanation(no one at her work knows anything about this stuff). I told her she had no care at all about my feelings and so on. We were just mildly cordial for a day or two and then things warmed up again.<P>After that, I asked her if she didn't think that this would heat up the affair again and she said it wouldn't. When I asked why she thought this way, she said it was because she knew that she just wanted them to be friends. I asked her if she had told him that in a blunt way and she said she hadn't that they had an "understanding". I told her that she needed to do that for me before she moved out(like I really thought she would). She didn't respond.<P>She doesn't yet want the divorce saying she didn't but I did. We talked it over and I can see she really doesn't. She is again talking about things for us in the future as much as things for her separately. I told her we could move both spare beds for when her sister visits next week. She told me she wanted to leave one of them here. When I asked why she said "in case we stay here". She's not moving as much stuff as originally planned and said if she gets depressed, she can just come back here. <P>She is not putting in a change-of-address, I've told her she is welcome anytime whether I'm here or not, to stop and pick up her mail. She has given me back the YMCA card that she got for me thru work and suggested that she might want to go work out with me. She practically insisted that I start carrying her car key again in case she "accidently locks herself out", something she hasn't done in her entire life that I know of.<P>She stopped sleeping in our bed about two and a half weeks ago. She just said she stopped just because she wanted to, but wouldn't tell me why and got angry when I asked. She often stops by our bedroom to kiss me and say goodnight before retiring. She just made the decision on a move date last night. We have been talking more and about more of our "stuff" than since this all started 10 months ago.<P>I really don't see any positives in her moving out. I know a lot of you will see it differently and you are entitled to that, but I've been living with this person for the last 11+ years and I don't see how her pride will let her return. She has been sweet and kind and affectionate for most of the last month. If there was any realistic thought in her mind about us, then why should she move? Rhetorical question, no answers necessary. There's a lot more that has happened in the last month, but this is a pretty good synopsis of events. <P>I love you all, but there is no one who can help anymore. I know that I have to start thinking of life without her and adapting to what is happening.<P>--DeWayne--

(((((DeWayne)))))<P>I know how painful and confusing this is for you. I wish I had magic words to make you feel better.<P>I do want you to know how much I appreciate all the time you've taken to reply to all of my down posts. And the few happy ones I've had. It's really meant alot to me. You are one of the good guys!!<P>Take care,<BR>Mitzi

Hi <B>Mitzi</B> -- Thanks for the kind words. You know, we're all good guys here. Good people in bad situations. That's one reason I cannot stay away for very long.<P>--DeWayne--

Hi DeWayne,<P>You must have read my mind. Last nite I was thinking we hadn't heard much from you lately. I'd seen you offer a few lines to some other folks during the last 5 days or so. Thanks for the update.<P>You've shared a lot with us on the Forum. You've got friends here. And, what are friends for? They celebrate with you during good times, they help you along when times get tough.<P>We've come to know know lots about you, DeWayne. We know you're a good guy, contemplative, an independent man. You'll make your own decisions and set your course of action. But you don't have to follow that path alone.<P>Of course, you know your W better than any of us. And yes, there's a chance of some magnitude that you and she will take different paths. But, there's also a chance you both will decide to follow a new path. Together.<P>We, your friends on the Forum, DO see signs of a flame. Maybe we can help you with ideas for how to blow on some of these embers? Maybe it's only that we can keep you company. Either way, it's better than going alone. Doncha think?<P>Thanks again for the update. Keep in touch.<BR>

{{{{{{{{{{{{DeWayne}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Lori<P>(see how good I'm being?????)

Hi, <B>dMac</B> -- I'm always glad to hear from you. I do realize what you say about friends. That's why I can't seem to be away from this place. There are so many good people here.<P>I'm trying to figure out how I want to handle this separation. Should I be available all of the time? Should I take some pages from the Plan B book(not the whole thing -- I'm still hard-headed about that) and ignore some of the potential in-coming phone calls? Got a lot to think about before Saturday.<P><B>Lori</B> -- Whaddya mean you're being good??? LOL! Luv ya, Sis....

DeWayne,<P>I was glad to see your UN on the board because I hadn't heard from you in so long but sad to hear of your news. You do, however, seem to be handling it very well though. God Bless You DeWayne!!!<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DeWayne}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole

Nothin' much to add, except my heartfelt love and some great big hugs!<P>~Sheryl

DeWayne,<P>You seem to be handling the situation pretty well considering all you have been through.<P>I think at this point, only you know how much longer you can keep going, and if you are getting enough positive signs to keep the faith.<P>There is tremendous inconsistancy with your wife's actions, and quite honestly, depending on whether you want to be positive or negative you can pick and choose those actions which support your feelings.<P>I know when my ex was acting this way, it made me completely bongers. I overanalized everything. Every little thing she did either sunk me to the depths of depression, or had me at the highest of highs. It was horrible. <P>Try not to look to far into things. As men, we are always trying to make sense of these actions. Guess what, a lot of her actions will not make any sense. She is still confused.<P>Keep the faith,we are here for you..<P>Good Luck and God Bless<P>

<B>Nicole</B> -- Nice to hear from you. You haven't posted much lately, either. I'm not handling this as well as it may look. I told W last night to please bear with me as I'm going to have some down times as the week wears on. I said I was having problems seeing how her moving out was not going to be a step towards the end.<P><B>Sheryl</B> -- Ah, Sheryl, you came from the depths of lurkdom for me. And with all you're going thru right now, I really appreciate it. Love ya, girl...and hugs back at ya..<P><B>Joe</B> -- This waffling does drive one crazy. I really don't know how much more of this I can take. If I could get something definitely positive out of her, it would go a long way.<P><B>Everyone</B> -- Just got back from my therapy appointment. Rebecca told me that the most alarming thing I have told her over the past 10 months was that OM and W were now working side-by-side. She is really upset about that. I told her, "You think <B>you're</B> upset about it, but there's nothing I can do here!!".<P>The lemons life throws me are so rotten, they won't even make a passable lemonade. Hope the pigs like them. "Here, OM, have a lemon".<P>--DeWayne--

Well, last night, we spent most of the evening cleaning the house to make a good impression on appraiser #3. At least W is in a good mood and seems happy. Must be because one decision has been made at least.<P>She thanked me for doing the vacuuming and I told her(jokingly) that it had dawned on me that, not only wasn't I getting paid for this work, but it was actually going to cost me money in the end. She did laugh....<P>--DeWayne--

Hey there D,<P>Nice to see your sense of humor still active. Yup, sometimes ya just gotta laugh, eh? <P>Truly, I think you're handling this pretty well too. It's a tough lemon, this. Sour too.<P>I know what you mean about being caught betwixt and between. "Side A" says reinforce how nice it is to be with you. "Side B" says remind her what it'll be like when you're not around for her. <P>My own tendency would be to try to do a little of both. You two obviously still get along well and there is affection between you. That's a damn fine start that many of us haven't had.<P>Conversely, she's bound-and-determined to live this independent life for awhile. Gotta let her do it. Let her see the upside AND the downside. There's independence and... there's being alone.<P>Before closing up this post, one thing I'd like to learn more about... your counsellor's comment about making it too easy for her. How so? Is she saying your W is testing you to see how much you care? I'm curious especially because my OW behaved in the same fashion with her H.<P>Anyhoo...more food for thought.<P>Be well.

Hiya, <B>dMac</B> -- A sense of humor used to be one of my strengths, but it's really getting tested now...love to laugh, love to make others laugh...regular clown...<P>You know, doing a little of both <B>is</B> probably the best approach, but it's like any recipe, gotta get every ingredient pretty close to right or it spoils the entire dish.<P>You are exactly right about the difference between independence and alone. Problem is, when there is an OP, there never needs to be an "alone".<P>Everybody tells me the same thing, that I <B>do</B> make it too easy for her. Whatever she wants, she gets, even if it goes against my wishes. I guess I'm just too helpful...<P>No, dMac, she isn't testing how much I care, she has absolutely <B>no</B> doubts in that area, but she may be testing what she can and cannot do as far as I am concerned. I'll think about this a little and maybe post back..<P>I've gained 22 pounds with all of the food for thought you've given me over the past months...got any diet food for thought????<P>Thanks, man...<P>--DeWayne--<P>By "making it too easy for her", did you mean the implication the psych made about being a doormat? She is concerned that I let W waffle too much and don't stand up for myself and force decisions to be made. I just sit back and wait to see what the outcome will be and she thinks I should be more pro-active in helping determine what decisions are made.<p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited February 09, 2000).]

One more thing that I just thought of....<P>You know, I could accept whatever she wanted, if I just knew what it was. If she wants out of the marriage, I am prepared for that. Won't give her a hard time, attempt to delay or slow her down and help her in any way she would want. On the contrary, if she wanted to work things out, I am ready for that, too.<P>Where I am having the problem is knowing whether she is being honest, and more importantly, forthright with me. There haven't been all that many lies over the last several months, but there have been a lot of deceptions by "omission". The lack of honesty and forthrightness is what causes most of any anxieties that I have.<P>Even if I could know for sure that she is truly confused and doesn't know what she wants, that would be a comfort, too. Guess that is an example of how hard it is to completely regain trust. Trusting her implicitly again would probably eliminate these concerns.<P>Oh, well...just talking<P>--DeWayne--

DeWayne,<P>Thank you for the update...wish the news was better. Sorry things don't look so hot.<P>The worst part of this is the combo of her moving out coinciding with the OM being her new team-mate at work. BOOOOOOO!! THUMBS DOWN!!!!!<P>DANGER>>>DANGER>>>>DANGER!!!!<P>Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Howdee D,<P>Prob'ly too much wine and alt.country music tonite...but try to hang with me. <P>I wanted to respond back to your post as well as share some of Suse's thoughts.<P>Okay, my thought is that chances are you're not making it too easy for her. Personally, I believe it's better for people to be allowed the autonomy to take the course they are driven to take. Even if it's a mistaken one. Most times, by forcing them to stay off that course, things get worse. They want it all the more. Additionally, they resent you for keeping them from it. Damned if ya do...damned if ya don't.<P>But, there's another "take" to this. Call it "alt.country" if you must call it something. Okay, I'll be direct. Suse thinks your W if just letting you down easy. In her state right now, she has no idea of coming back to you. She's just sooooooo relieved you're making it civil for her to ease out of your relationship. Honestly? She might be doing that.<P>So, what the hell do you do? From my perspective, what choice do you have? You can't FORCE her to stay in your relationship. You can't PREVENT her from spending increasing time with OM. About all you can do is try hard not to wizzz her off too badly while giving her a taste of what it'll be like in this world without you.<P>Hey, she may someday realize she made a big mistake. If she does, at that time, you may or may not be available and willing to have her back. <P>That's the "alt.country" part. See what I mean? Ya lose your house, ya lose your wife, but ya don' lose your life nor your self-respect. There'd be irony in her coming back and you don't want her anymore. <P>It's a classic. I think I'll write to Steve Earle, Robert Keen, Lucinda Williams or somebody and suggest it.<P>Gawd, I hope you're okay with this. Ya gotta laugh. Even in tough times.<P>Be well, D. Hang tight.<P>DMac<P>------------------<BR>I'm just a pilgrim on this road, boy. 'Til I see thee... fare-thee-well.

Hi Heartpain,<P>I don't really know your full story, and I haven't responded to you before, but I would like to tonight.<P>I'm sorry for what is happening to you, your W and your marriage.<BR>You sound as though you still get on with each other, and still care and love each other.<P>That is such a bonus. Maybe she does need time out, to assess what she has done, what damage she has done, and what she wants to do with her future.<P>The fact that she is not moving all her things out would have to be a positive. That to me says she has not made up her mind - she isn't sure at all. And the fact that her sister and she may stay at your home - when they could stay at her place - that's a positive too.<P>I agree that working with OM again is sickening, galling, revolting, and any other adjective you care to insert, however, I don't feel that that is too constructive at this point in time. The way she gave you her cell ph no., his home ph. no when she cleaned is great. If she wanted time alone with him, she never would have done that in a million years. I still hate the idea of them working together, on your behalf tho. Are you sick of hearing that - sorry ?<P>I get the feeling that all is not wonderful with OM. She sees that now. Maybe she doesn't know how to forgive herself, or isn't sure of how you could ever forgive her. My H has thrown that line in my face quite a few times, ie,<P>"Joey, you will NEVER forgive me for this !!"<P>If only he knew how I would love the chance to show him I no longer give a damn about the affair - all I want is him and our marriage (I think - but that's another story)<P>Please don't be a doormat for her. I don't know if you are or not, I don't know enough of your story, but if she decides on the freedom road, let her pay her freedom bills....<P>Anyway, I wanted to respond to you, and let you know I am thinking about you. I will say a prayer for you, and hope that the right decisions are made.<P>Take care of you, and big hugs your way<P>Jo

Hey, <B>dMac</B> -- Don't worry, I'm okay with all you have written. Deep down I have to agree with Suse's assessment. I've felt that way for quite a while, just wanted to take the positives in what she said/did to see that there was a chance for us, even tho' very small.<P>I realize that I cannot prevent contact with OM, never have been able to. Wouldn't even want to if that is what she really wants. Even more than wanting to work things out, I would really like to just have the truth. I think that affects me more than anything else. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Hey, she may someday realize she made a big mistake<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is where the self-respect interferes. Do I really want to be second choice? The runner-up? The consolation prize? Don't think so.<P>Yup, gotta laugh even when things are bad.<P>Thanks, my friend.<P>--DeWayne--

Hi, <B>Jo</B> -- She claims that what you say is exactly what she is doing. Taking time out to "find" herself. Could very well be, as she has more than you could believe of demons from her child/teenage-hood. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line, I and my behavior have been blamed for the effects these demons have had on her.<P>Her not moving some things out has a more practical reason than emotional. She intends to buy a house and it's easier not to move some things twice. Being the soft-headed idiot that I am, I have actually encouraged this thinking that it will keep ties unbroken. Sentimental thinking on my part, I know, with no basis in reality.<P>She knows full well and in great detail what I think of her and OM working together. I have made it plain that it is a demonstration of her lack of care or consideration of my feelings. I'm not sick of hearing how other people feel about this, but I'm sure I won't hear anyone say it's a good thing.<P>I don't think she has enough of a conscience to "forgive herself" because in words and deeds, she has shown that she really doesn't think what she did was all that wrong/bad.<P>Thanks a lot, Jo and lots of hugs back your way.<P>--DeWayne--

DeWayne....<P>Haven't posted to you before, but goodness gracious...I wish I had your strength! You are so strong, patient, understanding. <P>I can just see in your words how much you love your W. It makes my heart soar to see you and all these other folks here with high hopes, good stories, along with the bad.<P>Makes it a lot easier for us newbies to see the support and love. I just wonder sometimes why it takes "this" for all of us, waywards and betrayed alike to come to our senses. But, I guess it's like that in a lot of other situations in our lives too. Live and learn as they say.<P>You hang in there. I can offer no advice, but I will be checking in to see how it goes for you.<P>Just keep giving her that love. It's good to see that she's accepting of it too. I hope she finds out what she could be losing by moving out. <P>You're definitely in my thoughts. Keep the chin up as they say.<P>purplemag