I've blown the last chance to get her and my marriage back. This is the first time that I have ever posted on this board, but I think that my wife is a regular poster on here. I won't say what her name is so that she may have some anonymity if she wants. I know that most people on this board have been betrayed, and I know that I don't have any right to ask, but could someone please help? I'm feeling really low tonight, because I had to say goodbye to her, which may have been forever. I love her so much, and wish that I could have taken the last 2 years back. I have been suffering from depression for over 2 years, and had cheated on my wife for the last 1 1/2 years. She had tried so hard for so long to help me, but I couldn't pull out of all of the ugliness, the self pity, the seduction of an affair that was so vile, and contrary to everything I held as true and right and wonderful in my life. Through out this whole time, she has given all that she could to save us, but I feel that I have used up her last good grace, and don't know where to go from here. I feel lost without her in my life. she has said that I am not proving to her that I have changed, and that I have given my life back to Christ. I think there may not be any way to change her opinion of me, because of all of the horrible things that I had done, and for making strides in the marriage, only to stumble and fall, and go backwards, which crushed her spirit. Now things have done a complete turn about. She now has found someone who says all of the right things to her, and has a stranglehold on her. A stranglehold which I placed there. I'm trying so hard to do all of the right things, but feel like I have pushed her too far, and don't know how to compete with her fantasy. She could not compete with the fantasy that I had placed around my affair. I am praying for her and for my children who I have betrayed too, and for myself. We are seeing a christian counselor, and have been for about a year. He has really helped me deal with my betrayal, the incredible guilt that goes with it, my depression, and helped me recognize that I had abandoned God. He has helped my wife a great deal too. I know that I don't deserve any more chances, but I love this woman so much, but don't know how to reach her. Please help me. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank You for your thoughts and any prayers for our marriage. <P>------------------<BR>

I have nothing but compassion for you.<P>As you are attending a christian counselor...<BR>please learn the most important thing you can now do is <B>pray</B>...<P>I too will pray for you...<P>Add to that <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>It sounds like she knows about what <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> is all about... Don't worry about that... just keep plugging away.<P>If you are unaware of it... I have a post of general welcome post I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited February 09, 2000).]

Guard, If your wife is posting here, she probably still wants to save the marriage. <P>Go to your wife, tell her what you said here. Be prepared to go under a microscope for a long time. You have proved that she can't trust you for 1 1/2 years. This might sound hard, it is hard. Once the trust has been broken, it's hard to rebuild it. <P>Have you read on this site or did you come right to the forums? NSR will soon (possibly while I'm writing this) post a welcome letter. Click on the links and read everything.<P>It sounds like you've drained her love bank empty. You have to redeposit those love units. <P>You can do it! <P><BR>[This message has been edited by Keosha (edited February 09, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Keosha (edited February 09, 2000).]

Hello, Guard,<P>I was a betrayer too... had a long-term on & off affair... and understood later the role depression played, especially in the "backsliding" (was undiagnosed at the time & am now on long-term anti-deps). I understand the guilt and self-loathing that goes with being a betrayer, especially a betrayer that seemed unable to break the vicious cycle. It is a long climb back. I think you can make that climb now - the OW is out of your life (as my OM finally exited mine), and you have the *desire* to make things right, which IMO, is a big part of the battle.<P>Guard, I have figured out who you are... the best thing you have to offer now is your *constancy*, your steadfastness in your efforts at recovery, and efforts at rebuilding your family. Stay on your meds FAITHFULLY. If they're not working for you, try something else (I've been on several before finding a good match). <P>I know you understand that there is very little trust left. Don't EVER lie to her again; don't ever fail in a commitment you have made, large or small. You are going to have to earn back trust both in you, and in your relationship, one tiny bit at a time. Show her you're up to the task... "put your money where your mouth is"... don't expect a quick fix. It wasn't a quick disaster, it won't be a quick fix!<P>I don't know if it's too late... I do know there's a strong lady with her head on straight who is unlikely to do anything foolish. But the onus is definitely on you to do most of the grunt work now.<P>My heart aches for you both... pick yourself up, Guard, and make yourself back into someone you like to see in the mirror every day. Miracles can happen (case in point, my H and I! ). Good luck to you.<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

Guard,<BR>I have you and your family in my prayers, I too was the betrayer and first and foremost there is nothing here but support I have been on this board since July and no one has judged me for being the betrayer, we are all here for the same reason, to try to save our marriages. You need to let your wife know how you feel in reference to<B>everything</B> if need be tell her your screen name and let her read your post. you both should fill out an emotional questionnaire it is 11 pages and you need to print one out for both of you be brutally honest on every answer. Use the policy of joint agreement and even though you have been married for a while get the book "the four gifts of love" by Dr. Willard F. Harley. He sent this to me so if H and I do start over we do it on the right foot. If you live by these four rules you will build your W's love bank back up to over flowing. You do need to do Plain A and let your W know it is safe to love and trust you again. I pray for the day my H will give me just that chance, now we are looking a divorce in the face, Even in this I am using plain A and I will continue to do so until I feel my love for him to be threatened, then it is time for plain B.<BR>Just know that you are not being judged here and when you ask for advice and truly want to mend your marriage you will get the advice you ask for here.<P>Lesa<BR><P>------------------<BR>"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and<BR> lean not unto thine own understanding." -Proverbs 3:5<BR>Take care and God Bless.<P> lms20ish@jobe.net

Thank you for responding so quickly. I expected that I wouldn't be much welcomed. I am still strugling with the guilt, the self pity, the self deprecation to sometimes be the man that my love needed me to be. <P>It's difficult.<P>Thank you Jim for the references. I understand a little bit about Plan A and Plan B from what my wife had tried on me to get me to come back from the pits of hell. I have a great dilema right now, because my christian counselor has suggested to break off contact with her until she removes the other guy out of the picture. My wife had tried this on me and found it very difficult. I presented this to her tonight and she was very bitter about it because of all of the "crap" that she had to endure. For me to lay this now at her feet is difficult, to say the least, for her to understand and to accept. How can I possibly go through with this plan when I have left her several times, and this might appear in her eyes to be another act of abandoning her (even though I am already not living in the house)? How can I possibly show her how much I love her, and yet tell her that I can't see her until the other guy is out of the picture? I know that if I keep trying to court her, and do all that I can to win her back, yet know that she will not give up this other guy, will just drive me back to the insanity that I just came from. <P>To Keosha, No, I haven't done any reading on this site before, so I really don't know what I am doing yet. You are right. I have erased all of her trust in me. God, I would give anything to get that back. I don't know what you mean by "draining her love bank", but if it means, have I drained all of her love for me? The answer is, regretably, yes, I think that I did. I wanted to try to "woo" her back, to show her that my love for her is real and that I am excorcising the demon that I had become. But, I think that this other person has a grip on her, and I think that she can not believe anything that I say or do, nor can she trust her eyes to see that I am the man that she once loved. I am not saying that I have made a complete change in what I am, but I know that I never want to go back to what I had become, and that is a great stride for me.<P>To Suze, What you have said about the guilt, the self-loathing, the backsliding, the almost unbreakable cycle is just uncanny. It has just felt like there is no one that could ever understand how deep and dark the world could be. It seems as though this journey will never end. You are right about the meds. I have been on and off them, and the effect is always the same. I have come to accept the fact that no matter what happens to my marriage, and my life, I have to stay on the medication. I didn't realize it at first, how deep I would fall when I went off of them. Especially as a man, you have this feeling that taking medication is a sign of weakness, and I felt like I could control my moods by myself. I can not. It's so difficult to accept that. You are also right about me not liking the person I see in the mirror. I have a strong feeling that this was the one of the main reasons for my depression, and my affair. I have always been very self concious about my body and my looks, but always used my personality and wit to try to mask this. I was once a very confident and focused person. That all has gone away, and is now replaced with self doubt, confusion, hesitancy, self-deprecation, to the point that I find it difficult to function sometimes in large groups, or with alot of background noise. Suze, thank you for your imput. You seem to have been down the same road that I have gone. Yes, I am going to keep trying, with the help of God. I will pray for the same miracle that God has granted you and your marriage.<P>To LMS, thank you for your words, your thoughts and especially your prayers. I will pray also for God to bless your marriage and to heal whatever hurt that has come between you and yours. <P>Looks like it's going to be another long night for me. It's so difficult to know what direction to turn next. I want to show, and prove to my wife how deeply I care for her and want our family to be whole again, but to try wo win her love back, when she cares so much for another, seems so insurmountable. I will try none the less. Thank you for your prayers and counsel. <P>------------------<BR>

Guard,<P>I hear your pain but I sympathize with your W because I am in her shoes. Only a month into it, but this pain is just too much. I can't imagine going through it for 1.5 years. I just asked for some help myself from betrayers.<P>All I can say as coming from the other side, when your H betrays you and has an affair, it is the worst feeling in the world, the only thing worse is when your beloved one dies. Other than that, this is about as bad as life can get. (or your children being ill)To feel that after all your committment your H can just up and leave for OW is unbearable. You wonder what you did wrong, why is she better than me, how did this happen. Then you go through that stage of back and forth. Your H wants you, then runs to OW. It devastates your self esteem and your whole world falls apart.<P>TO meet someone new after going through that stage is like a new beginning. Here is someone ready to shower you with love and affection. You feel like a woman again. You feel like you are human and lovable for the first time in so long. It is SO easy to get caught up real quick in this new OM because he gives you what you desperately needed. My H has even said lots of men prey on vulnerable women like that. Then again he is a predator. When you have this new person showing interest, and THEN after ALL OTHER THINGS HAVE FAILED, your H wants you back, even though deep down its what you want, it is still a little insulting. NOW my H wants me back?? What if I never did this, we could have went on for years like this?? Also, now your H has created so much fantasy around the affair, you want to see what its all about. You figure, there must be something to all this. SO you go for it. Now shoe is on the other foot and for the first time in years H wants to be a better man. But its not good enough. <P>I guess I rambled, sorry, I just want you to know that to be on the other end IT HURTS. It sounds like you have been on the other side for a short while. Remember how patient your W was for that year. You may have to do the same now. It is hard, but the good people on this forum will help guide you and give you strength. It can be done, but to expect it quickly and without a lot of hard work on your part, it won't last.<P>Thank you for your honesty on what you went through. You actually gave me a little hope that one day my H will see the light and want to make things right. In my heart, if he divorces me, that will be it. I can't see taking that step so soon after our ordeal, that I would ever go back. Take some time and read all through the MB site. There is a huge amount of info. I also read a book called Private Lies by Dr Pittman. I even gave the book to H to read. It goes into a lot of statistics on affairs and has some really good info. Try to educate yourself as much as possible on this process. Be honest with your W at all times and by no means get tangled with OW again through this mess. Give your W some time. SHe has been through a lot and now this is a consequence of all that has been done to her. I can see exactly where she is coming from.<P>Prayers are with you . Good luck and be strong!

Guard, you have some good advice here. I too am the betrayed and lonelymom has described the feelings we go through very well.<P>Even now when we have started recovery, I know I'm vulnerable if I met a good OM.<P>I don't understand your counsellor's advice. To put that pressure on her after all you've put her through seems like a kick in the face. I think if what you really want is to get on the road to a great marriage, you need to just focus on yourself for awhile. Do a full Plan A. The OM may seem to have a stranglehold, but she has been looking to you to meet her needs for a looooong time.<P>Now the shoe is on the other foot. Search the old read only posts by name and read some of the posts of the guys that have really struggled to win their wives - K, Sir Hurts A Lot, NSR. To do a good plan A, we have to decide we want this more than anything for ourselves/kids. It takes a lot to be consistent, to get up again when we fail and do some LBs.

Welcome. It takes a good deal of courage to come here and lay out your problems. I will pray that you find the answers and the peace you are seeking. I believe I have prayed for your marriage for almost a year now. I have to tell you I am surprised to wake up and see you here. Something must have changed within you.<P>However, if I was your wife, I would wonder what your primary motivation at this time. So many times you have made commitments and thrown everything you had away with both hands. Is it not that you see her as maybe developing a relationship with OM, you are unwilling to lose her?<P>If I was your wife, would wonder how valuable something really is to you if you don't care for it, even abuse it....until somebody else wants it. I remember that kind of stuff from Kindergarten. I know it is human nature and who knows, maybe the timing of this new attitude of yours is completely coincidental with the timing of that OM coming into the picture. Or was that the final push you needed to make real changes? Or are you just caught up in the thrill of the chase now she is not just yours for the asking?<P>If I was your wife, I would wonder if I broke all contact with OM, would that actually kill any long term recommitment from you? I would wonder if you no longer felt the threat of the OM, if you would lapse into your old ways. And since you have been outwardly acting like you have changed, but pretty recently been caught doing some decietful things, I'd be wondering if you are as sincere as you sound.<P>Never the less I believe that God can change hearts and can give you all that you need to recommit to your faith, your marriage and your family. Do not give into despair. <P>Listen to Suse, she has really been there and understands. I do not. <P>Although I don't want you to second guess your counselor, you are accountable for your actions and your marriage. He may have urged your wife to break off contact with you, but it just wasn't right for her. If she can not see the clear and constistant changes you are making and exposed to your available love and affection, I'm not sure how beneficial breaking contact will be in achieving your desired goals. <P>I'd take out your calander...one that has a few years on it, and ask yourself how much time your marriage is worth? How long are you willing to work at gaining the respect and trust of your children? How long will you be willing to keep putting in the effort, regardless of the tangible results you see. Are you willing to be that new man...or the man you used to be, even when you are met with stumbling blocks? <P>You can not control what your wife does. That should be pretty easy to take ownership of because certainly you see how her incredible efforts did not control your behavior or hardly influence it. <P>You can however control what you put into your life and into your relationships....and that is what you are accountable for, not the outcome.<P>It is going to take sometime. If you get caught up in the results instead of the input, you will undoubtedly be disappointed. If instead you commit to clear congruent words, thoughts and actions that will lead you back toward the integrity you've lost and continue to grow in faith and spirit, your efforts will be blessed <P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I forgot to address the issue of you demanding she break off contact with OM. I think that is not the wisest thing either, you didn't mention it, but I am sure at one point your W demanded this of you. Did you comply?? If your like my H you may have downright refused. <P>I agree with the FLH above me. I can see where your W's feelings are coming from. If this OM knows the past year, he may use it to get in close with her. I know I sound synical, but again, in your case, this OM is somewhat a loser for doing his part in this. I have a big resentment towards OW/OM. I don't like feeling like this, but I can't fight my feelings right now.<P>I got this link from another forum that I am on. <BR> <A HREF="http://www.gospelcom.net/bttb/devotions/classics/streams" TARGET=_blank>http://www.gospelcom.net/bttb/devotions/classics/streams</A> <P>It has daily devotions and I have been reading them. It may help encourage you. I haven't searched that whole site since this one has been my life.<P>Give your W some space. I think the more demands you make may push her to OM. Remember, she probably doesn't have many negative experiences from him yet and her Love Bank gets deposits in greater amounts from him right now compared to you. <P>There is no magic time limit, no magic answer, even your W knows this, maybe too well, all you can do now is Plan A and wait. Years even, if you want the marriage that bad, you'll get the support here to do it.<P>Can you bring some printouts of Harley's plans to the counselor, so he/she can support you in this. If this is your decision, you need a counselor that will support you. Also, has this counselor ever been betrayed? Have they been involved in this field for years and years? As far as I know Harley has never betrayed, but he is SO INCREDIBLY EXPERIENCED in all this. I think he is quite brilliant. But I don't think anyone can just sit there and tell you to start making demands. LB's will not be good for you right now.<P>Read NSR's Plan A link and info too and get educated with this MB site and learn as much as you can before you do anything else.<P>Good luck, let me know how you like that site. I hope it works to get you in.<P><BR>

Guard<P>I hope you don't mind, but I copied your reply to lonelymom about what it feels like to be a betrayer and e-mailed it to my H. He has told me he wants a divorce, so it may already be too late for us although I want it to work. Hang in there. I appreciate your candor and honesty. It really helps me to understand where my H's head is. You can move forward from here if you truly want to. I hope your W realizes you want to make a go of it and gives you another chance. I think if at all possible, marriages should stay together. Blessed be.<P>------------------<BR>Keridwen

Guard, K7:<BR> I copied that response also (it was great) and saved to show to my H ... not sure if I will or not, but may next time he starts talking about feeling bad. Hope you don;t mind!

Hi, Guard and the other betrayers on this thread,<P>I have been married to my husband for 2 weeks tomorrow!! A week before the marriage I found out he spent the night with OW the week before I found out. They had only met briefly in September when we were kind of off again. I say kind of off again only because he broke it off (we were suppose to be married in September), but kept calling me as friends. I realize now that was his way of controlling any dating I might have done (gave me hopes he might come back to me). They only e-mailed from that brief meeting until January 11th, 2000 (how do I forget that date?). At the time of their spending the night together, he had moved in in December and we were very active in planning our January 28th, 2000 wedding. He mentioned this OW a few times and said they worked together and she was older and they were just friends. Any way, I finally became curious and IM'd her one day and introduced myself to her thinking we could all be friends. She was extremely shocked to hear we were getting married the next week because they had been making plans for the future. I found out they don't work together and the only reason they didn't see each other was because she lives 1 1/2 hours away. He begged me not to leave him telling me it was all a game and she meant nothing, that he was playing games with her. They both told me that he couldn't even get it up the night they spent together so they didn't really have intercourse. The OW e-mailed me a good portion of their e-mails and I'm haunted by his charm and smoothness in the e-mails.<P>My question is this: you speak of the guilt and shame you have lived with and my H says the same. Was this guilt there during the affair? Did you have this great love you now profess for your spouse during the affair? Or has this guilt and shame only begun since the discovery? Were your words to the OP just words or did you really mean them?<P>Our Pastor suggested we not go through with the wedding and work on this issue before getting married if we both wanted it, but if I called the wedding off, that was it. We had a wedding date last year that never happened for a similiar issue (e-mail only no meetings that I know of). I knew I wanted this marriage to work so it had to happen now. To say that I don't have regrets for marrying this man would be a lie, but I'm happy about my decision 95% of the time. It's only when he LB that I regret my decision.<P>I am very much in love with my H and I am trying hard to ensure his continued faithfulness (talking more the main thing I'm doing).<P>I have vowed to myself that if I catch him again - it's over! I've been divorced once, I'm not afraid of it.<P>Thank you for any insight you can give me.<P>God Bless.<BR><><

Hi, Guard and the other betrayers on this thread,<P>I have been married to my husband for 2 weeks tomorrow!! A week before the marriage I found out he spent the night with OW the week before I found out. They had only met briefly in September when we were kind of off again. I say kind of off again only because he broke it off (we were suppose to be married in September), but kept calling me as friends. I realize now that was his way of controlling any dating I might have done (gave me hopes he might come back to me). They only e-mailed from that brief meeting until January 11th, 2000 (how do I forget that date?). At the time of their spending the night together, he had moved in in December and we were very active in planning our January 28th, 2000 wedding. He mentioned this OW a few times and said they worked together and she was older and they were just friends. Any way, I finally became curious and IM'd her one day and introduced myself to her thinking we could all be friends. She was extremely shocked to hear we were getting married the next week because they had been making plans for the future. I found out they don't work together and the only reason they didn't see each other was because she lives 1 1/2 hours away. He begged me not to leave him telling me it was all a game and she meant nothing, that he was playing games with her. They both told me that he couldn't even get it up the night they spent together so they didn't really have intercourse. The OW e-mailed me a good portion of their e-mails and I'm haunted by his charm and smoothness in the e-mails.<P>My question is this: you speak of the guilt and shame you have lived with and my H says the same. Was this guilt there during the affair? Did you have this great love you now profess for your spouse during the affair? Or has this guilt and shame only begun since the discovery? Were your words to the OP just words or did you really mean them?<P>Our Pastor suggested we not go through with the wedding and work on this issue before getting married if we both wanted it, but if I called the wedding off, that was it. We had a wedding date last year that never happened for a similiar issue (e-mail only no meetings that I know of). I knew I wanted this marriage to work so it had to happen now. To say that I don't have regrets for marrying this man would be a lie, but I'm happy about my decision 95% of the time. It's only when he LB that I regret my decision.<P>I am very much in love with my H and I am trying hard to ensure his continued faithfulness (talking more the main thing I'm doing).<P>I have vowed to myself that if I catch him again - it's over! I've been divorced once, I'm not afraid of it.<P>Thank you for any insight you can give me.<P>God Bless.<BR><><

Hi, Guard and the other betrayers on this thread,<P>I have been married to my husband for 2 weeks tomorrow!! A week before the marriage I found out he spent the night with OW the week before I found out. They had only met briefly in September when we were kind of off again. I say kind of off again only because he broke it off (we were suppose to be married in September), but kept calling me as friends. I realize now that was his way of controlling any dating I might have done (gave me hopes he might come back to me). They only e-mailed from that brief meeting until January 11th, 2000 (how do I forget that date?). At the time of their spending the night together, he had moved in in December and we were very active in planning our January 28th, 2000 wedding. He mentioned this OW a few times and said they worked together and she was older and they were just friends. Any way, I finally became curious and IM'd her one day and introduced myself to her thinking we could all be friends. She was extremely shocked to hear we were getting married the next week because they had been making plans for the future. I found out they don't work together and the only reason they didn't see each other was because she lives 1 1/2 hours away. He begged me not to leave him telling me it was all a game and she meant nothing, that he was playing games with her. They both told me that he couldn't even get it up the night they spent together so they didn't really have intercourse. The OW e-mailed me a good portion of their e-mails and I'm haunted by his charm and smoothness in the e-mails.<P>My question is this: you speak of the guilt and shame you have lived with and my H says the same. Was this guilt there during the affair? Did you have this great love you now profess for your spouse during the affair? Or has this guilt and shame only begun since the discovery? Were your words to the OP just words or did you really mean them?<P>Our Pastor suggested we not go through with the wedding and work on this issue before getting married if we both wanted it, but if I called the wedding off, that was it. We had a wedding date last year that never happened for a similiar issue (e-mail only no meetings that I know of). I knew I wanted this marriage to work so it had to happen now. To say that I don't have regrets for marrying this man would be a lie, but I'm happy about my decision 95% of the time. It's only when he LB that I regret my decision.<P>I am very much in love with my H and I am trying hard to ensure his continued faithfulness (talking more the main thing I'm doing).<P>I have vowed to myself that if I catch him again - it's over! I've been divorced once, I'm not afraid of it.<P>Thank you for any insight you can give me.<P>God Bless.<BR><><

Guard,<BR>You came here seeking help and already your participation is helping others.<P>Kind of cool. Take care.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Dear dear Guard,<P>I figured out who you were too. I don't know how many times we have prayed for you, for your wife, for your marriage and the kids, yeah - even OW. <P>The Christian Counselor your wife was seeing has really helped her hang on - probably longer than she would have. Her hope in you sort of died - with the back and forth stuff..... but, her hope in the Lord is still there. <P>Have you figured this out yet from a spiritual standpoint? Someone (and he aint the nice guy ya know...) wants you both apart. Someone wants you both divorced, and your family destroyed. I can tell you this, that someone isn't God.<P>I know you love your wife, and I know she loves you. Go back and read the first page on the site - and you will see different stages of the relationship. Intimacy, Conflict, and Withdrawal. <P>I think your relationship has progressed to withdrawal - and that is a scarey thing. But, getting back to intimacy - you end up going through the conflict stage for awhile. So, what you need to do is find a place to put your hope, even when your wife isn't giving you any. Stick with that counselor. And you have a grandstand of people cheering you on in the background, praying for you both, and praying that you will both heal from all of this.<P>I do believe you both love each other so much, I can just feel it when I read your words. I know your wife is just out of steam. But God isn't out of steam. He will help you get stronger, he will help you and your wife get back together.<P>There is a battle going on, but the good knews - is that we know the outcome. So, put your focus and strength in the goal, the outcome, in the end product. <P>He who began a good work - is faithful to complete it. <P>God Bless You,<BR>TNT

Guard,<BR>I too know who you are. I don't know if I have much to add to Suse, FHL, lonelymom, Schizzo, & TNT's wise words. You've gotten some wonderful advice & insight into your W's head, heart & emotions.<P>Your W knows all about Plan A & used it on you extensively. Will it be effective if you use it on her? Or are the walls really high and thick? I've used Plan A for 21 months and believe firmly in it, but one of it's advantages is that it will help YOU sort yourself and your behaviors out.<P>Your counselor is a good one. Your W hasn't always taken his advice...he advised what is known here as Plan B, and she considered it many times, even tried it twice but couldn't do it.<P>I don't see the OM as a particular threat to you, I think he is only in the picture because you left her so many times. Your W lost trust in you, the lovebank drained to a nasty gurgle. But as all of us on this site know, a friendship or work relationship can turn into an affair in the space of a heartbeat...so I hope she is wise.<P>Are you listening, Guard's wife? <P><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)

Guard, I am new to the forum, so I haven't figured out who you are! Just wanted to thank you for the reply on my post, it seems a lot of people are getting some peace out of it. I know I am. <P>Prayers are with you.

Guard<BR>Everyone here has given you wonderful advice so I'll try not to repeat it.<BR>The greatest gift that you can give your W is complete honesty.<BR>The lies and secrets are more damaging than any other action.<BR>When you lie and keep secrets you rob her of the right to make decisions based on reality.<BR>You rob her of her dignity. I don't mean that to sound harsh in any way. <BR>This is the one thing that I need so desperately for my own H to understand. <BR>Can you make a vow to give your wife the honesty she deserves?<BR>1 1/2 years may seem like an eternity. But look past this moment for now. Where do you want to be in twenty years? You can start on that today. Picture you and your wife together, playing with grandchildren. This time will be in the past. You can do this.<BR>Prayers for both of you! <BR>Focus on where you want to be and keep taking steps forward.