Hello friends,<P>I was planning on putting this post up a few days ago but my life went into an emotional overload. My story is out there if you don't know who I am .<P>I am searching for some answers because today I am in an incredible amount of pain. A few days ago, I was numb (Thank God) but now the pain is back. Last night was a terrible struggle for me.<P>I was with my H for 10 years, we waited 7 to be married (to be sure it would last). We have three daughters 2,6, and 8. On this past xmas day , my H left me. At first , he didnt' say why. A week later, he brought the OW to his mom's for New Years. A few days after that, he moved in. He claims he met her 3 days before xmas. I thought he lost his mind. I faithfully tried for 4 weeks to save the marriage. In the process, I started losing all the things I held dear to me. I have back tracked, and I honestly don't think H met OW any earlier than first of second week in December anyhow, because we did everything together. Either way, I feel he hadn't known her long at all. OW knew he was married. Probably thought he was a good provider, if he told her the things we have, it would appear that way, but I am a hard worker and make as much as him. (still not much!). He brags about his kids and used to about his wife all the time. He works with engineers and when this ordeal happened, they always told him to go back to your wife. <P>Here is my question. I hope you can help me stop my wandering mind a little. The first 4 weeks, my H expressed a lot of confusion. He said he really didn't know why he left and that he was happy. He had doubts every day about what he had done.We talked about little things that had been wrong in the marriage, like he went out a lot for his own recreation but took me no where. Now in his new relationship (if you can call it that) he takes her out all the time and does none of his old recreations. But we talked about things and we almost got back together twice the first four weeks. He called me once to say he was coming home to save the marriage. Ten hours later, after work, he went to get his belongings, and told her he was coming back and I don't know what OW said, I know she cried, and he called and backed out. That broke my heart. From that point, we are drifting apart quick. He has stated that he still loves me and always will. He claims he is happy where he is right now. He is working on his issues. No clue what he means. I told him OW is probably dancing on her toes to keep him happy after he said he was leaving. He now a week after almost coming home is going to a lawyer for divorce. Although I don't know how I feel just yet, I am hurt. To me, it seems soon, to walk out of a marriage, move in, get divorced and start a new life with OW and her son, and leave us behind. He has been really harassing me for kids to meet OW and I feel it is too soon.<P>Here is my questions. What does it feel like when you cheat?? Obviously there are a lot of lies. Does the guilt catch up soon, or not for a while. At night, when all is quiet, do you think of your spouse you left behind. Do you miss her. How about longer down the road, when you seem to have settled in to your new life, does that pain go away? And why does the Betrayer get so furious when the betrayed, finally gives up and meets someone new. Or when the affair ends, then the betrayer is finally ready to make the marriage work. As a spouse being betrayed, that hurts a lot, to feel like second choice, or now that someone else likes you , you are worthy of your betrayers affections. I have a million questions. I wonder does he think about me. One time in the beginning he said everything he does, he thinks of me. I am sure that OW is replacing me quick . SHe is turning him into a monster. He complains he has a lot of mental exhaustion. I feel like he gets mad at me (on his terms) and runs closer to her, then when he is nice to me, I feel its because they must have had a fight.<P>After ten years, I have done so much for him. I was the giver, he was the taker, there never was common ground. I can't figure out why I even love him or want him back right now. But I just want to understand what it feels like. I have considered doing the same thing to answer my questions, but right now, I can't even think straight. It doesn't help that H mom, is lying, starting rumors and saying things to make this whole thing blow up. I have no idea why, but she is using tactics she used in her divorce years ago.<P>Please tell me any info you can. I would appreciate it. I feel like I woke up one day, was replaced and forgotton. It is a horrible feeling. I have heard that somewhere down the road most H's go back to W. I heard a lot of W don't go back to H. <P>Thank you very much for your help.

Hi lonelymom,<P>I am not a betrayer, but I was feeling many of the same things and had many of the same questions about 4 months ago. I cannot answer your questions, but when my husband, firestorm, gets home from work I will ask him to respond and share his point of view with you.<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you.<P>peppermint

lonelymom, first off, let me say how sorry I am for your pain and also would like to thank you for your words to my message. I don't know if I can answer all of your questions, but will talk to the ones that I can identify with as a betrayer. You ask, "what does it feel like?". This is very difficult for me... you must understand that the affair is not real, but a fantasy, and once it is revealed for what it is, the ugliness of it shows through. For your husband, I am sure that he is experiencing excitement and a sense that this is the "real" him and how he wants his life to be. I believe that if he has had in the past, strong moral convictions, that yes he will feel incredible guilt and remorse. You should probably know though, that the grip that this fantasy has will make it very difficult to act on those feelings. The guilt had taken me over, and I did confess to my wife, and tried several times to break off this horrible thing that I had done. To her credit, my wife was forgiving, and steadfast in her belief that God wanted our marriage to be. <P>The lies and deceit do rip you apart, but you commit them anyways, because in your mind, one little deceit, such as an email message between friends can really come to no harm. But it's like the little Dutch Boy trying to stick his finger in a hole in the damn to keep back the flood waters. <P> Yes I used to think about my wife, after I had done what I did, I would think of my wife, and feel horrible, remorseful, sorrow, self-loathing. <P>Lonelymom, I will pray for you and your husband that he will see and understand the pain that he is putting you through, and will stop and turn to you. It will be very difficult for him and I know that it will be incredibly difficult for you. My counselor has worked with both my wife and I on forgiveness. I will try to add more later on. I am now feeling pretty down. This is hard for me to do, and I am new to this board. Take care. May God give you peace for today.

Peppermint<P>Thank you for your concern and assistance!<BR>

Guard,<P>Thank you for your reply. I guess in my mind, I'd like to believe that sooner or later, this will hit him. He may wake up and say "what did i do?". We were together ten years, we had problems, he was selfish, I was way to caring, but he was never a monster or "frankenstein" as one person referred to him, I thought that was hilarious. How would he feel if he knew that? <P>I am in a lot of pain too. I am trying to keep in my head, that deep down he was a good guy. This is not like him. I feel a lot of his actions are through the OW. Of course, she would want us to fight and feel more secure every time we do. <P>If he lives with her now, and soon his check will be garnished for child support and eventually from the IRS, and then H and OW will start to have bills and burdens. I hate to say it but good. Maybe he will wake up and see the ugliness he created.<P>Thank you for your reply. I am curious if I will get many or not. A lot of this site, is made up of the betrayed I think. I know you will find peace and comfort here, a lot of us will want to learn through you as you can learn through us. I have only been here a week and this is the only place I can get comfort right now. That is why I can't lose my computer!<P>Good luck, be committed to your wife and stay away from OW. Give W time and she will see her OM faults and then you can try and win her back. Plan A and no LB's!!! Just plan to take some time, it won't happen overnight. You can do it. Everyone here will support you.

Lonelymom,<P>Do I ever know how you feel! I am not a betrayer, so I can't answer your questions. My H left 2 weeks ago, but I found out 2 days after Christmas that he was still seeing his OW. He calls her "my beautiful Julie Ann". It really makes me sick. Anyway, I know how desperate, out of control, sick, sad, unstable, etc. you feel, because that's exactly how I feel. I have known my H for 20 years, with him 16 years, married to him almost 15 years. I can totally relate. Up until Christmas he had been willing to work on things, but like your H, I think the OW in my scenario did or said something to push him over the edge. I just don't know. I've thought about calling her to find out just exactly what her agenda is, but I doubt it would really help the situation. Please, please, please, if you haven't already, get some counselling to help you start dealing with all this. It has done me a world of good personally, although it didn't do a lot to help my marriage. You can only change yourself and your perceptions and reactions. You can't change someone else. Focus on yourself, how you can get better, how you can be more stable. My heart aches for you, me and everyone here who has experienced this awful experience of betrayal. (((((((hugs)))))))<BR><P>------------------<BR>Keridwen

Keridwen,<P>The pain at Xmas is unbearable. I fear next XMAS each day and so do my children. <P>I am hoping that a betrayer, hopefully "former" and now reformed, can give me some insight on how much affect an OW/OM can have on the betrayer. I believe it is that there is first an extreme sense of mutual attraction, friendship, and then when the affair starts, you think "its for real". But in reality a relationship that is built on betrayal, lies and abandonment has a lot of insecurities. The OW/OM must be deathly afraid of losing their "new love" and probably acts very different (nice, extra special treatment). Then when they think the old relationship is over their true colors come out and thats when these betrayers start really seeing what they had wasn't so bad. This is just my guess. I am waiting on someone who can tell me from their point of view. '<P>I also think that when the betrayed, kind of loses it and gives up, or moves on, then it is another slap in the face to the betrayer. It seems some seem to get a wake up call then. <P>Me personally have no intentions of waiting around 2 , 3 or even 4 years like some of these people. I can't do it. Not yet I can't. Hopefully my life will either move forward or move along in some way.<P>

Hi,<BR>I was the betrayed so first had I can't answer those guestion.....some of them I still ask to this day. I know from reading other posts and from friends that they do think of you...but will rarely admit it. Sometimes my stbx will say something under his breath but loud enough for the girls to hear that make me think that he is sorry or at least is starting to feel some remorse. But then he does something so horrible that it negates everything that I thought might be occuring. I have prayed for over a year now that he comes to his senses before this divorce is final, but I have seen only a few signs that would even suggest that he might be confused. But everytime these signs are seen by me or others it just gets "me" more confused than ever. I feel sometimes that I am in constant turmoil. And some days the turmoil inside of me is caused by myself, because for the life of me I can't understand why I still love him and would still take him back. He has fought for custody and in the most part won. Although many say it is you that can make your own happiness...I still believe it is others who lead you in the direction of this happiness. I mean how can I find happiness when he has casued so much pain. I still do not see what is so exciting about an affair. Maybe my morals and values just won't let me think like that. I felt so comfortable, so secure, so "in love" with my H that another man could not have held a candle to him. No, he wasn't a stud, or the greatest, or even the best H, but I still loved him and accepted all of him for who he was because he was my H and I loved him.<BR>Nancy

Nancy<P>I agree that it is confusing, and it does hurt. I was similar with you that I was happy enough. I know now I deserved better, but I accepted it.<P>This whole process is about faith, committment and time. HOw much faith do you have to hang on just a little longer, how committed are you to doing anything needed to save the marriage and time - how long can you do this before you reach your breaking point (and move to Plan B). The love is always there, buried deep sometimes, sometimes more evident than ever. But for most of us, myself included, the love is there, we just question why?<P>Betrayers, are you out there? Please help us with some answers. As for me, I am tempted to see what all the big deal is about too, like Guard's W, I am really starting to get curious. And I would have NEVER cheated, but if we are all wired for an affair, I guess its possible. ANd let me stress the curiousity is not about getting even, though it could be looked at that way, a lot of it is about being lonely. Way too lonely. I can't eat or sleep. I never knew my H had this much impact on me.<P>

I am so sorry to read of your pain - can't eat, can't sleep, why would you still love him and want him after what he's done and all that.<P>I've been there too. <P>But, this is not about the OW - I think we are too eager to blame the OW or OM. It is our husband's or wives who made the choice to go ahead with an affair and this is something that maybe we do not want to face.<P>MO

I agree, I do blame most of his behavior on OW . Partly because I never saw this side of him before. I know our relationship had a positive impact on his behavior in life. He also told me once before OW loves it when we fight. <P>But in all fairness, the people who are OW/OM are selfish homewreckers. They know what they are doing. Ruining a life time that two people built. If they would stop and say, there are plenty of people out there, why would I want to get involved with someone who is married when...only half divorce over this, ... the chances of this affair surviving are slim... and I may not compare to the W/H. They just think of themselves, they think they are somehow better than the spouse, or the betrayer wouldn't have left. In most cases, unless physical abuse is involved, the spouse is ALWAYS the far more logical and even better choice than the OW/OM . <P>I'm sorry , I guess I am a little angry with OW today. Please excuse my venting.

First off. I was the betrayer in my first marriage and I did marry the OM. We are happily married and I do not regret the choice that I made. Now, I'm not telling you that to make you feel bad. I'm telling you that because we are a very, very rare case and if our circumstances would have been even a little bit different it would not have ever happened. We knew each other for a very, very long time before our affair even happened and when we did leave our marriages we knew we loved each other. Even given those things, we almost did not make it so given the circumstances that you and a lot of these people are in on this board, makes me a firm believer that your spouse would not make it with this ow.<P>When you first start dating someone and you feel "in love" right away that is all it is, a feeling. You can't really love somebody until you know them inside out. Bad moods, bad habits, the whole bit. The first months or even years is infatuation. Trying to impress ea. other etc....Well, affairs are no different in that aspect. You can possibly meet somebody and decide that you "love" them in a short time. Short term affairs just don't make it. Your husband has to be infatuated, not in love. Another thing, I do not believe you can love two people, I mean REALLY love them at the same time. When I knew I loved the om I knew I didn't love my husband and I didn't tell him that I did. If your husband is telling you he still loves you, will always love you then he does. It's tough to start a relationship, it's REALLY tough to start one with an ex wife and kids. You don't "instantly" love somebody elses kids and when your in an infatuation stage with the OW or OM you certainly are not going to want to take on the kids once you realize what is really involved. I have a very good divorce attorney friend and he swears that the ting that wakes up a spouse when they want out of a marriage is getting a clear picture of what divorce will really do to them. I am a true believer that if you want to save your marriage showing them what divorce is workers better then begging them to stay. You have small kids. Your husband would be paying a lot of child support for a lot of years. Does he know exactly what that amount would be? Bet it's a lot more then he thinks it will be! After awhile the ow is gonna get darn sick and tired of seeing his paycheck go down every year instead of up. Once divorce proceeding start, if it's a good state they will make both of you go to co-parenting classes together. Your husband will get a real eye opening there too. Also, your getting on with your life may make him second guess too. Remember when you were a teenager and there was that boyfriend you had that you were not sure about? Well you'd break up and immediately they were dating this other woman. Hey, you'd second guess yourself. Did I toss out a guy that everyone else wants? He must be pretty special. Well it works that way with adults too. Geez, I leave and there is 10 guys wanting to take my place. Hummm......maybe one of those guys will be my children's step dad someday. Do I want their love elsewhere??? What I guess I'm trying to say is that sometimes divorce proceedings are exactly what wakes them up. It doesn't mean that your marriage is over. Again, my husband and I almost didn't make it through the stress of divorce, betrayal, lies and we only did because of our circumstances. If those circumstances would have been any less we would have stayed in our first marriage. Your husband doesn't have much going for him and there is a good chance he'll change his mind. Stay strong but don't let him walk all over you too. If you do end up divorced, you need to take care of yourself and your children. Good luck to you.

lonelymom,<BR>I was the betrayer in my marriage six years ago it was not a "love" affair it was just two weeks but it was two weeks that I wish I could erase from time. I was with the OM three times. and after first I felt very guilty and mad and hurt,but I did go back two times and I did feel the same way. I didnt tell my H for a year, the whole time I was still hurt and angry and guilt,but I was putting this on my H and now I see that is was to myself that the feelings were ment. I told him,but I didnt tell him every thing he wanted to know (detailes) it was not good enough he went to Om and got them and was angry with me for not telling him. we worked through it(I thought) three months we found out I was pregnant,well I lost the baby on mothers day, I felt that it was my punnishment for doing what I did, and I know everyone says it wasnt but it is how I feel and more than likely I allways will. But anway it makes me sick to know how I cheated on my H and then treated him the way I did. we had five years since then now he says he cant live with what I did any more. during the five years I had to watch how and what I said cause I didnt want to trigger any thing for H but it was in my every thought on how to keep it in the past,I'll never forget what I did to my H as I know he will not forget it either.<P>If you truly forgive your H please let him know so he dont spend all of his time and energy trying to keep it barried and not meeting your needs.<P>I pray to God my H will give me another chance right now it dont look to good but I will be here for him always I love him enough to wait. we have alot to lose we have two wonderfull babies and two that are with God,I will fight for my family till I take my last breath.<P>I have no Idea if this is anywhere what you wanted but it is all that would come out. I'm not good at this stuff but I tried.<BR>Lesa<P>------------------<BR>"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and<BR> lean not unto thine own understanding." -Proverbs 3:5<BR>Take care and God Bless.<P> lms20ish@jobe.net

Bonnie,<P>First, let me appologize for my comment that OW/OM are homewreckers. I said that out of anger, and in my case it is true. The OW set out to do just that and she did. But I felt bad for saying it after I read your reply.<P>I totally believe you, you can't love two people at the same time. Not real love. Thank you for the kind words in that area. I also think you are "the exception" and for my case, thankful to that. What you said, really makes SO much sense. You were pretty much falling out of love with your first H before you fell in love with second H. That makes a lot of sense. Maybe thats why a lot of affairs do fail, because the betrayer, still loves the spouse very much. Thank you for your reply and again I applogize to those I may have offended, that comment WAS DIRECTED TOWARD THE ONE OW I KNOW, and not to anyone else. I wish I could take it back.<P>To Lesa,<P>Thank you for your answers as well. I guess I always want to believe my H suffers and incredible sense of guilt. He has said to me that he can't sleep good, and he is an emotional wreck. He doesn't know what he wants from one minute to the next and he lost about 35 pounds the first two weeks. He had a few extra pounds, and now HE LOOKS GOOD. Sure after 10 years he lets himself go and now he changes !! He was always a good dresser, and cologne and hair in place, but now he is taking care of his body too. Kind of made me mad! <P>My H has said a few weeks ago that I could never fully forgive him and he couldn't live with himself for what he did. It seemed like an excuse. It is much easier in his eyes to stay put and not deal with the mess he made. He STILL doesn't have a reason for leaving.<P>I talked to him for a minute today. I am going to KILL my girlfriend, she said she would call me back and I thought it was her, so I picked up. It went very civil. I am PROUD of myself, I wanted SOOO bad to say, so where were the police?? I didn't. I was calm. I was civil. HE asked if he could take the kids. I said with an address. He said I don't get one unless I get sole custody, if I had sole he'd have to tell me every little detail but if we get joint, he has to supply it. First I said, look H, you know I am an excellent mother, he agreed. I said you make me very nervous about NOT disclosing this address. If I were serving you papers,you'd get them at work, if I really wanted to know sooner, one of my friends would have followed you home from work. So I have not stalked you, or anything, I just want to know where my babies are sleeping. I put a lot of work into my beautiful kids, and I will not just send them off to never never land. I said you can see them during the day without an overnight then. HE said well they don't want to go with OW cause they said you will be mad. I told him I never said that, and I monitored the call today and that was not said. He got real quiet. I said, until court, I want no conversations with you unless its legitamate. I am offering you several options, you refused them. So what else do we have to discuss, because I have plans. He got real quiet again and said well I have to go to lunch (I.E. OW just walked in) and we will discuss this later. We once had a discussion that I told him I DO NOT like him saying "we are leaving for lunch", etc. He went out of his way to NOT say anything. <P>That trip to the lawyers must have sent him into a frenzy, because he was so civil. Unless as Lesa I think was the one, stated, that divorce can be a shocker. The last conversation we had before the fight he started, I said I love you and I don't want a divorce. I am here when you are ready to work this out. <P>I know I got through to him that day. So anyhow, thats my update. Accept my appologies one last time for my poor comment on OW/OM that was totally uncalled for. Can I plead temporary insanity?? Thanks to you all. <P><BR>

By the way my lawyer told me that who ever has the kids in their coustody at the time of the papers beini filed had full tem coustody until the divorce is final...just a bit of info that I was unawaer of and thought I'd share it.<BR>Lesa<P>------------------<BR>"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and<BR> lean not unto thine own understanding." -Proverbs 3:5<BR>Take care and God Bless.<P> lms20ish@jobe.net

Can you clarify that for me? I have the kids in my custody right now, as he walked out. So does this mean, that even if "HE" files they remain in my custody since I had them when he filed? Or does this mean, now its his custody?? I can't make it to court til MOnday morning so I am a nervous wreck. And thanks to one writer who told me about the Temp Domestic order, I am looking into that!

Something struck me in your post, why don't most W go back to H's. This is very troubling to me. I have been there for her through everything, i do almost all the housework and take care of the kids and i would do anything for her. Why don't most W go back? Hers is an EA but sometimes i think that is worse than a PA. God i hope your statisics are wrong in our case. I will do my very best not to let it happen to us.<P>I have the same ?'s, i'd appreciate hearing more answers from betrayers.<P>Derek

Just read your update and wanted to reply before I left for the day. It was me that made the comment about opening his eyes as to what divorce is all about. I agree, I think he went to an attorney and found things out that he didn't like. Try very, very hard to not go off on him. It sounds like your doing a good job so far. But, and I repeat, do not let him push you around and make threats. As a divorce comes closer he'll be filled with more second thoughts. At this point I would imagine the OW is holding her breath just waiting for his divorce to become final. She'll be as sweet as pie. So, move in that direction so he gets a taste but take your time!! You can slow it down without it being obvious.

Lonelymom<P>When I came home from work today, my W asked me to read your post and reply. My circumstance is a little different from your H's. I have known the person that I got involved with for about 14 years. My affair involved physical contact one time, but, I did continue to see her afterwards and we put the physical stuff behind us and remained close friends. I did not get involved with this person because of something that was lacking in my marriage. I think most men get involved in affairs because they let their ego take control of rational thinking. This was my case and I bet it is the same with your H. I kept going back because she stroked my ego and made me feel good about myself. What I realized after this was over with was that I didn't care anything about her. My W is my one true love. Almost all affairs will eventually end and when reality sets in, you see who really matters in your life. <P>During the time I has having my affair, I began to feel really bad about the physical contact. It began to show on my face and I know other people could see that there was something bothering me. It took me about a month to get all of the truth out to my W about the affair. I was ashamed, confused, and hated what I had done. I tried to hold back telling her because I didn't want to hurt her any at all, however, the lies only made me feel worse and betrayed her trust in me even more. There is not a day that goes by that I don't think about this situation that I have created in our marriage and the damage that I have done to both of us. There were days when I coundn't look my W in the face because I didn't feel like I deserved her. I have wanted to run and hide. I have wanted to pretend like this never happened. I just wanted it to be over.<P>This is not easy for either one of us and I am still coping with the enormous amout of guilt that I feel. This was not my W's fault and it is not your fault either so please do not blame yourself. I took my W, my marriage, and our love for granted and it almost cost me all three of these. <P>Without a doubt your H is probably ashamed to face you. He will have a very hard time trying to express his feelings about why this happened. The guilt will eventually get him and the fantasy relationship will soon end. When that day comes, he will see that you were the person that he fell in love with first. If he can face you, your children, and the truth, then he will probably come walking through the door one day. Be open minded as best as you can and be willing to listen if he wants to talk. <P>I did not do this because I didn't love my W. My heart did not lead me where I went. My ego did. Now I have to repair two broken hearts. My W's will come first because mine will never be the same until her heart is mended.<P>My thoughts and prayers go out to you. All things will work out for the best in the end and you will be ok. And remember, this is not your fault!<P>firestorm

Hi, I have just read your post and cried, you are asking all the questions I want answers to,On new years day I discovered my wife was having an affair with my best friend, it had been going on for only 6 weeks, we have been married for 20 years (together 25) and have 3 great kids aged 5, 10 & 13. I have not coped to well, even thought of ending it all at times, I still love my wife with all my heart and have begged her to think about what she is doing, throwing away 20 years and destroying everything. She says she loves him and is going to move into a house with him, she is infatuated with this guy, who is also married (to a woman who was his best friends wife 20 years ago). He has no kids, they are moving into a tiny rented house at the end of month. I just don't understand any of it, its like my wife has had a personality transplant, she is a different woman. What I can't reconcile is how loving and caring she was up to when I found out, it that normal, I mean we had a brilliant relationship, was this out of guilt? She is now very cold and mean, and I have shown nothing but kindness and tried to show understanding, but I am having my nose rubbed in the dirt. She is out right now with OM while I am baby sitting the kids! When it is your best friend, its like a "double wammy" , my head is just reeling with it all.I just do not know how to cope with it, Other friends keep telling me that light will be at the end of the tunnel and that at 42 I will maybe meet someone else, but I just want my life back and her. Its so hard isn't it, I feel for you, because you know this pain, my wife was such a gentle caring lovely women, I never thought her capable of this in a million years, its like she is drugged. The OM has no idea what will, hit him, living in a tiny box house with my 3 kids (madness) he has no children and is still telling his wife that he loves her at the same time as telling my W he loves her? This won't last will it ? what do you think ?<P>There has been so much hurt, how do you forgive, I desperately want my wife back, if she came could it ever be the same. sorry if I am rambling I am a little crazy just now