Compared to the intensity of any "normal" relationship you have had, not just your spouse, was the intensity of the affair that much greater? <P>I can not even begin to comprehend how someone could give up their children for an OP. I know it is an addiction, but is it that much stronger than being in love with someone<BR>when the relationship is not illicit? When I was first involved with my H, when I was most "in love" I still felt guilty because I felt like I was neglecting my dog - and I never blamed it on the dog.

Nellie - I am not a betrayer but responded to your post out of empathy for you. If you'll recall, my H is the one who seems to be exactly like yours - irrational, cruel, insensitive and always BLAMING me for everything. If it's a rainy day outside then even that is my fault. What stood out in your post is your overwhelming concern for your children. Yes, Nellie, I understand that, too. Because of all the things my H has done (and he has done them ALL) the fact that he has left his children for this OW is the one thing that wounds me like a sword. I don't think I will ever get over it nor do I think my children will. Last night he said "I'm not their daddy anymore. They don't even want to talk to me when I call," and then he proceeded to accuse me and say it is all my fault. EVERYTHING he has done in the past year (since he left) has been my fault. <BR>But the worst part of it all is that I know and the kids know the truth: He just doesn't love us the way we thought. In fact, he doesn't love at all: He is 100% selfish and self centered and the OW is welcome to him. She's got all of this pain ahead of her as I know he will do to her and her little girl exactly what he did to me and my children. But that's another subject...

Moving On,<BR>One of my daughters said that her father says he loves the kids, and probably even thinks he loves the kids, but he doesn't know how to love. <P>Sometimes I wonder if there is a basic fundamental difference between betrayers who leave their children and those who don't, even if they continue the affair for years.

Nellie1,<P>Your post hit me pretty much in the gut. I had a flood of memories going back 13 years ago when I made the fatal mistake of cheating on my first W. <P>Nothing else mattered to me at the time except to be with Rita. I had to be or I would die. I walked away from my loving W and 2 small children. My Dad tried to knock some sense into me. It didn't work. I don't hear you! He went so far as to threaten to write me out of the will. Go ahead. I don't need anything else in my life. I've got it all. <P>That fantasy lasted a grand total of 9 months before I saw the light of day. Looking back I can't even imagine what the [censored] I was thinking.<P>I have a better understanding of what Val is going through because I also experienced it. It's not very comforting.<P>It has been said here before that "they" go insane or have been abducted by aliens when in the throws of the affair. It is absolutely true. If I was in my "right" mind I would never have placed my marriage or my children in such a situation.<P>Well, that's the way it was for me.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

A quick question for Medic - <P>During your affair 13 years ago you mentioned that it took you 9 months to "see the light". What was the defining event or moment that made you "see the light"?<P>------------------<BR>He who has a "why" to live for can bear with almost any "how".<P>-Nietzsche-

Hi Shattered1,<P>I can't say that there was really one event that brought me back to reality. <P>My sad story from 13 years ago. I was running for a volunteer advanced life support ambulance service every Saturday night. We had the same crew members for ever. In a normal working situation you do get close to your co-workers and know their stories. <P>In EMS with the life and death stuff going on you get very close. I got too close. I was not even aware. One of the crewmembers told me that Rita thought I was nice and wanted to get together. I must have asked him three times to hear the story. Wow, someone is interested in me. BIG TIME EGO BOOST. That was it, I was hooked and didn't even know it. Things at home were not good, not that they probably couldn't have been fixed, but I didn't know how to correct them. Just like water I took the path of least resistance. The affair was in full force. <P>Infidelity was rampant at the corps, there was a room with two full size beds known as the "sin bin". Looking back I should have gotten out. I was just stuck on stupid.<P>I really can't put my finger on what brought on the reality factor. There were no money, children, family issues at stake. It just hit me one day. Nothing my W did had any effect. I wish I knew what happened. There was no secret event that I experienced.<P>Sorry, I would like to give everyone here some kind of special words to make everything right.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

Medic - <P>Thanks for sharing what must be a painful memory. My W has been in her affair for 6+ months now and there doesn't seem to be any end in sight. She hasn't talked to her family since July.<P>I unfortunately will probably be divorced (she filed) before she crashes and burns. I have continuously prayed that God let me pick up her pieces but I get the feeling that she will be one of those 3% of affairees that make it long term. Lucky me.<P>------------------<BR>He who has a "why" to live for can bear with almost any "how".<P>-Nietzsche-

Shattered1<P>If you truely, truely, [look deep inside yourself] love your W. Delay the divorce as long as you can. Plan A her to death! Affairs DO NOT LAST.<P>I have been "hanging out" with an XGF who is tall, blonde, attractive, and willing. The only down side is that I am still in love with my W, if you would consider that a down side, I don't. Until the time that the divorce is final I am still legally and morally married to Val. She still has the only key to my heart. <P>For me, It's not over until you are dead for two years. Don't give up hope quite yet my friend. The fat lady is still in her dressing room.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

Nellie:<P>I may be unique in this opinion, but I don't think that your husband nor mine are in a crazy, passionate-driven affair. The way you describe his household, with him on the computer all the time, frequent blow-ups with the kids, and him and the OW hardly talking, doesn't sound like that romantic rush I've read about. Furthermore, I think that if he was in this state of infatuation, his mood and outlook would be much more "up" than it is, especially since you're always so nice to him (which should be viewed as a relief).<P>After months and months and months of over analysis, I still can't pinpoint with any degree of confidence what's really going on here (I think our situations are analagous). Of course, I have a few theories, most of which have depression and it's variants as their basis. If you'll bear with me on this (and not send out the funny farm detectives to find me because of my obsession with finding the answer), I'll try to break this down.<P>First, let's start with an assumption that our husband's are actually rational. Given that, what could be driving this behavior? In your case, if your husband is rational, I could come up with a strong financial motive for the relationship and staying in it. His anger could be a deliberate attempt to get you to hate him so this break-up is easier on you (since you'll think he's scum). As far as the children go, he may rationally think that to have the OW relationship (and therefore her money), his children need to be secondary as he needs to dedicate himself to her and her children. He may also be concluding that although he can't give himself to them, he's giving them a future by having access to money. This is one hypothesis based on rational thinking (it's pathetic, but quite possible). If this is driving him, he should be very anxious to get the divorce done and marry OW as soon as possible, to lock her in. I'm sure there are other possible rational explanations for his behavior.<P>On the irrational side, depression, feelings of little self-worth, and digging himself in too deep now to ever get out, could be driving the behavior. We've seen some indication of this based on his statements. I an more inclined to believe one of the things you posted from one of Pittman's books before - that he knows that YOU KNOW his weaknesses, he's really disappointed you and his children, and he can never make up for it. Much better to run from the situation and start over somewhere else, where he won't be constantly reminded of his failings. His angry behavior towards you may reflect self-anger at feeling "forced" out of his previous life and "stuck" in this new one, it could be because he views the problem as "you knowing what a louse he is" and is mad at you for being "too good" (possibly jealous), it could be because he sees how much he's hurt you and the children and doesn't want to have to feel pain from that, it could be that he thinks you're deliberately being nice to him and fighting the divorce just to make him take responsibility for the marital break-up and cause him more pain (I think my husband thinks that), and of course, it could be that he really thinks you are the complete cause for all the financial and other difficulties during the marriage so he can't stand to be around you. Again, all of these thoughts are irrational, in my opinion, and indicate some need for him to take a good look at himself, which I'm not convinced he will do.<P>Nellie, at this late stage, I really have trouble believing that these guys are in an intense, romantic affair. I also have trouble believing they are going to get their acts together and seek the help they really need, which is probably years of therapy. They don't seem motivated in any way to treat the situation differently. The only way out, I think, is for them to crash hard from an external influence. In your husband's case, that means the OW throwing him out. In my husband's case, it's either the OW throwing him out or losing his job. But my point is, SOMETHING needs to happen to shatter the current situation in order for them to take the hard action of looking at themselves. Otherwise, there's no compelling reason to change.<P>All right, I went off on a complete tangent. Forgive me.

Frankly, I hope my W does leave me for the OM, and then HE cheats on her, she finds out and he just keeps denying it. I know this doesn't sound very charitable, but it's how I feel at this point. This is the best she deserves for the way she's treated me.<P>--Wex

Wexwill,<BR>Don't worry about being charitable here.<BR>Distressed,<P>I'd vote for the theory that he is irrational. He did seem "up" off and on for awhile after he left - but since he filed (which was virtually simultaneous with discovery) he has almost always seemed just the opposite. I don't know what the status of his relationship with the OW is. Even if he were not madly in love with her, I think he would be so frightened of being totally alone that he would hesitate to leave. <P>I think it is likely he thinks I am fighting the divorce just to make it difficult for him, though I have told him otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if that is what the OW is telling him. I also wouldn't be surprised if he were thinking most or all of the other possibilities you mentioned as well. <P>Medic,<BR>Thank you for sharing that painful story. You are right though - I wish there were something I could do that would suddenly wake him up.