is just all the wrong things, and it's pushing her farther away. I'm trying so hard to make things right and it just has the opposite effect. Please tell me what to do. I was suppose to give her space, and all that I have done in the last couple of days is to intrude on it. I am trying so hard to show her how much that I love her, and want to help her heal, and atone for all of the hurt and humiliation that I have put her through, and everything that I do just reminds her of what a reprehensible person that I was. <P>I showered her with gifts yesterday, when she asked me not to make a big deal out of Valentine's day. I wanted to show her how much I do love her and care for her and want to take care of her forever, but all that it did was remind her of broken promises and my worthless behavior these last 2 years. Every time that I do something nice, she wonders why I couldn't do that these past 2 years, and I don't have an answer.<P>NOW THE REALLY IDIOTIC PART!! I checked her phone to see if she was calling him. I don't know why I did that?! She couldn't trust me for 2 years, and what do I do? I invade her privacy, I give her no space or freedom. I show her no trust. I had been praying all day long to get my emotions under control and to just give it up into God's hands, but I keep bucking him.<P> Please, Please help me. I don't know where to turn, or what to do?

Hello Guard,<P>I am a betrayed wife, so the advice I give comes from that perspective. I have been here about five months and know about your situation from reading your wife's posts.<P>First of all, be patient. You did not destroy your marriage in two weeks. Don't expect it to heal in two weeks.<P>Secondly, if she asks you to do something, do as she asks. If she wants space, give it to her. If she asked you not to make a big deal, you shouldn't have made a big deal. Here's why- For over two years she has been asking you to do something, give up the OW and commit to your marriage. You refused to do what she asked. You are still refusing to do things she asks you to do, so it will be hard for her to believe you have changed.<P>If you truly want your wife back, commit yourself to making her wants and needs #1 in your life. Notice I said HER wants and needs, not what you want and need for her.<P>Guard, please believe me when I tell you this. There is no pain that can compare to the pain your wife has suffered because of your betrayal. She is not going to quickly commit to giving you another chance to do that to her again. You will have to prove yourself to her before she can trust you again. Right now, she will be suspicious and cynical about everything you say or do because of your previous behavior.<P>If you are sincere about changing yourself, work on it and let her see it in her own time. Be honest with her about everything as any lie or untruth will undo any progress that you make. Apologize to her often and sincerely for the pain you have caused her. Do not make any promises that you cannot keep, as any broken promise will make you have to start all over in making this up to her.<P>Work on establishing a good relationship with your children. Apologize to them for the pain they have suffered and for the hurt you caused their mother.<P>Realize that even with you doing all the right things to reestablish a good relationship with your wife that it will take at least two years to repair the damage that has been done, but focus on the wonderful relationship that is waiting for the two of you at the end of this recovery journey.<P>Appreciate the wonderful woman who put up with the same things you are feeling, plus the agony of being hurt by the person that she loves most in the world, and that is you.<P>Keep coming here to ask for advice and support. We all care about your wife very much, and that means we care about you too. We would all love to see the two of you as a MarriageBuilders success story. It can be done, but will take time and effort. It is all well worth it.<P>Best wishes to you and Lor.<P>Peppermint

Maybe initially,she's experiencing anger at your attempts to love her,but when she has time to reflect on your efforts, I believe it will soften her heart. It may not have the proportionate effect that you hope for,and it might not ever have an effect that you actually see,but inside we do realize the efforts of others to bring us feelings of being cared for.We betrayed ask ourselves many,many times WHY,WHY,WHY, did I have to go through THIS for my S to realize their love for me??? It is a difficult pill to swallow.Don't stop with the displays of affection,but take it slow and in pieces that are easy for her to digest. Don't overwhelm her and it might be easier for her to feel good about your efforts from the outset. Don't forget to keep giving this marriage to the Lord. His way and His time are much better than ours.It is all in His control anyway...not much we can do but live in His ways and live in His will. Chin up! It is through the fire that we grow!

WOW! Really GREAT post by Peppermint! Listen to her!

Guard<BR>Sometimes you can't do the right thing.<BR>You just have to keep trying.<BR>Stamina is the key here. we all know you can do it and we are all routing for the two of you.<BR>Take a deep breath. Slow down. Think about the years of effort that fabulous wife of yours has put into this.<BR>I've been here from the start, Guard. I've watched her grow and learn. This is not easy by any means but if you take a good look at everything she has done that didn't seem to work..... you'll know the best thing you can do is just keep trying.<BR>Forget about the OW PERMANENTLY! Concentrate your efforts on what you want. It isn't doing the right thing that matters. It's the consistant effort. <BR>There are no overnight miracles here. <BR>My H supposedly hasn't had contact with the OW since July. I still cry. Read, understand, give it everything you have. Don't worry about doing the right thing. Just do anything Sincere!!!!<BR>Keep your chin up! :

Peppermint's post said just about everything perfectly I think. The only other thing is that she may also resent the implied time limit you are setting. I assume she asked you to give up the OW at some point during hte affair? Chances are you didn't immediately do as she'd asked. Now you have turned the corner, and are asking her to forgive and forget and are upset that your wish isn't being immediately granted. <P>Imagine your marriage has been a wall of deceit and disrespect for the last couple of years. Now you've torn down that wall and are ready to rebuild. But first you have to find which bricks to use and which to discard. And the wall, if its to be a strong, solid one, has to be built one brick at a time. <P>Ok, so its pretty cliche, but you know what I mean. <P>

I am so happy to see you back. I thought we all scared you away.<P>Wasstubborn is right, take a couple of breaths and slow down. <P>I don't have much advice for you, except to let you know I'm rootin' real loud, acting like a fool - out here on those bleachers. <P>I'm sure you feel like this is someone else's territory, here at MB. I can understand why you want to check your wife's phone. It's driving you nuts not knowing exactly where you stand. That hangin' by a thread feeling. It is horrible. It is really scarey.<P>I've never seen Lor be so stubborn, and act like this. She is totally out of character. I understand exactly why you are so afraid. I guess, when she was more predictable, you would know that the least bit of crumb you threw her, she would eat it up, and sit there and beg for more. <P>Now, she doesn't care if the crumbs fall or not. <P>This is very well described in the basic concepts section on the first page. There are 3 categories your relationship with your wife can fall into: Intimacy, Conflict, Withdrawal. I think Lor has hit Withdrawal. That is the scarey category.<P>In order to travel back into intimacy, your relationship needs to move out of withdrawal. That means that your giver needs to kick in. But, do you know what stage Lor will get to next - before she gets to intimacy? Conflict. So, hang on tight, because it is a rough ride.<P>I really encourage you to go back to the first page and read everything you can possibly read. Do you have the book "surviving an affair?" Get it. If you don't have it, then tell Lor you want it. Lor is really in withdrawal, and, I don't think this is a game.<P>It is scarey, because when one spouse moves into withdrawal, the other spouse just thinks things may be getting better, because the conflict is gone. But, when the conflict is gone, and there isn't any giver working, that is dangerous dangerous territory. <P>You have me in the bleachers saying prayers for your marriage. Now get out on that court and score. Score the points and work like you never worked. Learn all you can learn. And get ready for the long haul, because this rollercoaster ride has just begun for you. You need all the emotional strength you can get, right now. We are here for you. <P>TNT

Change your focus. <P>It is always wise to evaluate ones actions and conclude whether or not those actions are bringing you closer to your goal. I am sure that is what you think you are doing.<P>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your motivation was: (quote from previous thread)<P>"My motivation is to live my life as a man that God would want me to be. My motivation is to be the husband that my wife would once again be able to say that she is proud to be married to. My motivation is to be able to meet the eyes of my children and have them be proud of their Dad." <P>So Lor's responses aren't the arrow on the compass, getting closer to being the man you described here, is your compass.<P>Look what you are putting in, rather than the Lor's reactions.<P>Lor is not interested in what you do or don't do today and tomorrow as much as she is interested in the kind of man you are becoming.<P>You are a work in progress.<P>Lor can't see the whole picture yet, so she is hesitant to "buy" it yet. <P>Consistant, congruent, sustained efforts to achieve your stated goals will profoundly impact your marriage. <P>So take out that planner again. God gives us a lifetime to work on who we are. Whether Lor responds this week, this month, this year or next year is not as important as who you are when you look in the mirror.<P>Your efforts will be blessed. <P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi Guard,<P>Okay, take a breath. Peppermint's suggestion is a good one. Keep perspective. It's gonna take awhile. <P>I know if feels awful. It feels like you're falling and you no longer have a safety net. Guard, I've been there too. You will get through it.<P>Coming to grips with your own human frailties... leaving yourself vulnerable... atoning for past indiscretions...yep, they're all part of the healing process. Go slow. Ride with it. It's SUPPOSED to feel worse before it gets better! <P>Okay, a little truth in jest. I'm teasing but I'm also very serious.<P>Peppermint and FHL have posted some wonderful things to you. Dayam! If I can suggest... read them over and over and over. And over again. <P>As you've seen, there are some wonderful and caring people here. They've embraced Lor and they'll embrace you too. We WANT you to succeed. And, we'll do all we can to support you. But... you gotta do all the hard stuff.<P>Hang with us! Hey, btw...did you get email from me?<P>Best,<P>DMac<P>

Hi, Thank you for all of your words of encouragenment. They do mean so much to me right at this moment. I couldn't get to them until early this morning because my internet provider was not working. I have been praying through the night and trying to think back and see just exactly what it is that Lor needs from me right now. What I know for certain is to give her some breathing room, to work on myself, and to start getting my children's respect back. To that end, I think that she might be uncomfortable with me being on MB right now. I am thinking about trying to find another place to get support. She had mentioned a place called Divorce Busters, but I can't seem to find it right now. Any help in that area is trully appreciated.<P>Peppermint, thank you so much for the great words of wisdom. I will keep asking God for patience and understanding. It is in his time and in Lor's time, and not mine. I am going to try to be cognizant of HER wishes and not what I think she wishes. I will not give up.<P>mthrrhbard, wasstubborn, Moira2, TNT, FHL, DMac, thank you all. you are right about me trying to overwhelm her right now. ------------Deep Breath ------------. I will slow down, be sincere, compassionate, caring, loving and consistant in my actions. As Lor speaking as Yoda would say to me, "Do not try, Do". Dmac I did get your email and I replied back. Keep those cards and letters coming. I have to go to prayer breakfast now. God bless you all.

Would she really want you to leave MB to give her space??? I wish my h would come here. Since we know a lot about her, I think you can get even better help than most. Don't leave.<P>Let me say as a betrayed wife who is only recently trying to recover, your wife's reactions are totally "normal". I've been going through the same thing. If he doesn't celebrate me on a holiday, I feel he doesn't really love me. If he does, it's why couldn't you have done this before. I know it's hard on him, but it's truly how I feel, and I have to sort through all these mixed feelings.<P>An example, last night, I was crying when I tried to go to sleep, seeing pictures of him and OW. He comforted me, even though I had woken him unintentionally. Then I asked him if I didn't deserve better? He didn't answer. I said "yes" would be the right answer.<P>He thought he would "lose" either way, that if he said yes, I would ask why he did it? That was not on my mind at all, but I realize where it came from.<P>Actually, Peppermint's post makes me realize my h is doing all that he can, so now I'm encouraged. If you wish to read my post on "i keep getting in my own way", it may give you some insight to how hard this is on your wife.

Guard,<BR>You are welcome to stay here. Since I've posted almost daily for over a year, these people do know the process I've/we've been through, the high points, the endless waiting, the nutty behavior, the anger, the hurt (and that's just me...).<P>I love these people and we have held hands on this terrible roller coaster, one guiding the other as we all fall in some way at one time or another.<P>You've been one of us for a long time, you just didn't know the extent of it.<P>(Okay, who has the greased pig for Guard's initiation?)

LOR <P>Is this significant? I just saw 7007 posts.... I checked to see who posted the 7007th post.... It was you.<P>70x7....<P>God Bless<BR>TNT

Guard,<BR>It sounds like you have hit bottom and want to find your way back Please don't expect it to happen immediately. You need to be patient and put in the time. It says in Dr. Harley's book that it takes 2 yrs to rebuild a relationship after an affair. Trust me, I know that sounds like a long time. In my situation, we are 8 months into recovery and things are geetting better daily. There are still things that trigger for me, but getting less and less. I strongly urge you to sever any possible links back to the ow. Change your email, change your cell # and any other way that she would have to contact you. Realize that withdrawal takes a long time. Dr. Harley's book says 4-6 weeks but honestly I didn't notice real improvement with my h for 3-4 months. He had absolutely no contact with the ow during that time either. You are sure that you want Lor and the kids. I know you have been through the beginning stages of withdrawal before so you know there is going to be a terrible pull back to the fantasy life with ow. Find someone other than Lor to keep you accountable. You sound like a Christian man. Find someone in your church that has also betrayed thier wife and have him help you through this situation. I know how difficult it is for a man to bear his soul to another, but you need the support. The way that I have survived this ordeal is through prayer. Every time I start to obsess over the situation, I pray for God to take away my thoughts. Sometime I have to pray that prayer several times an hour, but God is faithful and will remove desires that are not pleasing to him. Trust Him!! For Lor to begin to trust you again, you need to become a person that she no longer thinks will hurt her. It is pure foolishness to trust a person that will hurt us (Dr. Harley -- Surviving an Affair). You need to be above any reproach. You need to account for all of your time. Call Lor from work to visit. Spend at least 15 hrs a week together. All of this is in "Surviving an Affair" It really works! This will not be easy. You can do it though! Look for baby steps of progress. You are a lucky man. Lor sounds like a great lady and I believe really does love you. Right now she is just ready to let you go if that is the path you choose to follow.<P>Another good book that is just out is "Sex Begins in the Kitchen" by Kevin Leman. In it he has a list of questions you should ask your counselor. Your counselor needs to be totally committed to saving your marriage. If he/she is not, find someone who is.

Guard,<P>Your wife started a forum "The Power of a Praying Wife" back in November. It has been a God-send and has changed the perspective of many women who have participated. She knows the power of prayer for it has held her stedfast in her desire to have her marriage restored.<P>The focus the prayer forum is not only to pray for our husbands and ourselves but to get our focus back on the only one who can truly heal our marriages, GOD!<P>There have been countless answers to prayer and huge steps taken in the rebuilding of many marriages. My experience on this forum leads me to direct you to the God who your wife believes in. She doesn't want anything but for God to be the center of your life, her life and your marriage and family.<P>God's word says, "Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added onto you."<P>Hit the floor on your face before God and ask him to bring your wife back and change your heart once and for all toward her.<P>I have been praying and will continue to pray for you and Lor.<P>Blessings, Taj<P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18<p>[This message has been edited by Taj (edited February 16, 2000).]