My H keeps telling me that the OW is not part of our problems in our marriage. I told him that I agree she didn't cause our problems however with her in the middle now it is not possible to work on our marriage. His response is that I should just leave her out of it. How can I do this? Does this mean that he really cares for her and it is just his way of putting the blame and guilt on me? He is constantly telling me they are just friends but she wrote him love letters in his Vday cards. I don't really buy the just friends bit. But he just comes to her defense almost like I am the one who is to blame for what I have done in our marriage. <P>I even asked him if he could understand my pain when I saw the OW kissing him. His response to this was that I hadn't kissed him for years so what it isn't that big of a deal. How could he be so cruel. We had our problems but not just caused by me. And then to basically say since I wasn't kissing him it was ok he went somewhere else. I am just losing it. Lies lies lies. <P>When will he wake up?

My H could use the same excuse, But my response would be I know all my advances would lead to rejection. (Big LB)<P>He's trying to make you the guilty one, he's also trying to make you responsible and using you as a way to releave his guilt.<P>Don't LB at this point! I should talk, I'm a terrible LBer or should I say good at it. <P>Listen to everyones suggestions here, they have some good ones and keep posting <P>------------------<BR>Peg<p>[This message has been edited by Peggy (edited February 17, 2000).]

I know about LB too. I am a terrible offender. But lately he has been pushing too much and then i just can't take it any more ....<P>I am a good person who is being blamed for his and the OW selfish, immoral behavior. I am about ready to just call it quits. <P>This is not the caring person I married. He has been transformed into a mean, cruel dishonest liar.

Hi BC,<P> I'm so sorry that your H is saying this to you. Mine said he didn't think it mattered if he had this friendship with OW because I didn't love him any more anyhow. Do they really feel this way or is it justification for their behavoir? All I know is plan A helped our relationship , but now I think he is in withdrawl and I feel even more rejected. I am trying to show him I love him, but when met with silence and coldness it is hard. I have gotten better at no LB, but feel there may be a big one looming if I don't vent here more often or email some people. Take care, My email is Lorabell13@aol.com if you want to email.

BC<P>Please let me preface this with this comment. What your husband did was completely and totally wrong. The affair was his decision, and it has caused tremendous pain and lasting damage to your marriage. He was not justified in seeking to have his needs met outside the relationship, and he has no excuse for this. <P>Now, it sounds as if you want to try and save this marriage. I really applaud you for making this unselfish choice to redeem your relationship. Because you are here, I assume that you want suggestions about how to change your husband's behavior. I believe that the best way to do this is to change your reactions to his behaviour. <P>I read your husband's comment "His response to this was that I hadn't kissed him for years so what it isn't that big of a deal". This was definitely a cruel thing to say, and I can see how much it hurt you. It really sounds as if it came out of anger. But remember, anger is almost always a secondary emotion. That comment sounds to me like it originated out of hurt.<P>If this was true, then I can see how much it might have hurt your husband. You see, my wife has refused to passionately kiss me for about 7 years (we have been married for 12), and it is something that I really miss. Although it seems like all men are interested in is sex, this is not true. What we really want is intimacy with a woman who will see us as we truly are and accept and love us (sound familiar?). <P>I believe that through this cruel comment, your husband gave you a huge clue to how to meet one of his needs. I know that kissing him is probably the last thing on your mind right now, but doing the things that you don't feel usually will get you to the place you want to be. Look for more of these clues. Even though they hurt and only sound cruel, look beyond them and try to see what need is being expressed and meet that need. <P>I know that this will be hard and I certainly hope that I have not offended you. I may be wrong, but this is my opinion.<P>May the Lord Bless You and Keep You.<BR>John

The post did not offend me in any way. It is not true that I did not kiss him for the past 5 years, however I will admit we had some problems but he never discussed what he needed although I did and he didn't meet my needs which may have made me pull away from him. Totally wrong I know this now but didn't then. <P>I would love to kiss him passionately but he won't let me. I have tried and he just backs away. I am afraid this means that the OW obviously is meeting this need and he doesn't want this type of affection from me. Believe me I have tried. I can't give more than a hug or back rub and that is all.

Lora,<BR>Unfortunately that is exactly what they think. That this relationship is justified because something wasn't right at home. My husband said that he just gave up on me. Well maybe so, but he should have told me how he felt so we could work on the problems not add to them with this OW. I know how it feels not to have the affection returned. One of my greatest joys was kissing my H and now I get maybe one or two a day. For awhile he would not let me touch him or see him naked. That has changed. He did not want me to lay next to him in bed, we sleep in the raw, and I guess he was afraid something might touch!That too has changed... so over time it is possible for things to change if you are just patient and don't push it. He also gave me a big hug this morning when I dropped him off for work. Is this progress? I don't know, but I am still routing for this marriage because I know it can work. He just has to realize it.