In another post, you asked me if I still wanted the answers to my questions. <P>Well, time and therapy have given me enough of the answers I need. The rest is left to the great-unknown. I'm sure you have a few items that are in the great-unknown pile too.<P>I do know that at one time, my ex was my whole life, my soul, and the person I felt sure I'd be with the rest of my life. Now, I see that for just the fantasy it was. I have no desire to find another. I think the reason I keep coming here is to shore up my desire for celibacy and keep me away from relationships for a good long time. Maybe for life. who knows. Like an alcoholic might look at crash scenes to keep him from driving drunk. Same thing.<P>I hope you have found some peace. As for me, I'm taking a break from my PhD after I finish my last qualifier in about a month. A few weeks ago, I loaded a gun and wrote a suicide letter to my family and friends. Somehow, I managed to keep myself from doing it long enough to call a hotline on campus and get into counseling. I decided that no piece of paper was worth my sanity. <P>There are too many painful reminders here. The ex-OM (who has shown absolutely no remorse for his part in destroying my marriage) is in a class I was compelled to take by my advisor. When I decided to leave the program a few weeks ago, I told my advisor the whole ugly truth and dropped the class. You know, he treated me quite kindly. I guess it was obvious to him all of this time what a basketcase I was. The head of the department and my advisor have said they would welcome me back after I pull my life together. You know my mom was diagnosed for cancer a week before my ex filed? I had to deal with that too this past year. My dogs and my family are the only reason I'm alive today.<P>Anyway, hope your life is improving. Take care.

I am glad that you will be taking a break and that your program will take you back. You've had a lot to deal with and your right, nothing is worth taking your life over.<P>I read your profile it seems you like riding your bike. Take more time out to do the things you enjoy. Try to heal. My heart goes out to you. I could never attend a class with the OW thier. What torture!<P>Please take care of yourself and let us know how you are doing.<P>Acacia

The Student,<P>I'm glad you wrote back. I'm in a different place "inside" than I was 6 months ago. I carry around in my car a list of questions you asked me last summer, and I have come across them several times in the last few weeks. I felt bad that I never could gather up enough "strength" to address what you needed to learn about.<P>It is hard for me to find the words to express to you, how it makes me feel inside when you relate how you wanted to end it all just a short time ago. What you have done has surely ruined your Life. And PLEASE....don't read more into that sentence than what I truly mean. I see as much as I can, the pain and remorse you feel for your actions. You are very similar to my wife.<P>I know in the past, that the anger I showed here put you off, and truthfully I feel that you couldn't stand to hear from me, because I was the mirror image of your husband, writing the words he would write, if he were here. I know how he feels.<P>I too have stayed away from this place for quite a while, but I feel at times, as must you, that there is unfinished business here.<P>It is late, and I must go for tonight, but just know, that I believe you have a right to hope for your future.<P>(<P>Take care,<BR>DG99D (Husband and Father of two)<P><BR>

I'm taking a break from the PhD program not because of my guilt or what I did. As a matter of fact, my advisor was not phased at all by the news I gave him. The fact remains though, that my studies and my research suffered a great deal while I was working to save my marriage and nursing my sick mother. I decided it was more responsible to take a break and heal on my own time, not my advisor's time. It was simply taking more time for me to heal than I felt justified in taking. Rather than continue to let my research slide at my advisor's expense, I am taking a break. Both he and my department head congratulated me on my professionalism in this matter. <P>As far as my marriage goes, my "life" is not over because of my infidelity. I know that I did everything in my power to save my marriage. My ex-H was a vindictive, unforgiving, cruel person. He did not love me. Even though you find this hard to believe, when I cheated on my H, I had no idea how much it would hurt him. I did not intentionally set out to destroy him, and when I confessed, it was out of love for him and concern for our marriage. My H's direct and very personal attacks to me were intended to harm me. It showed me that he never really loved me or cared about me as a human being. He had no right to abuse me the way he did. Basically, he punished me until he got all that hate out of his system, and the minute he got his life back in order, he dumped me. I've got to believe that it was only a matter of time (with or without my infidelity) that he would find some reason to let go of his "inconvenience", which was me. My continued suffering has more to do with the fact that he abused me before my affair and I did something that gave him even more ammunition to harm me. Then I confessed and put aside my goals to try and save my marriage and he divorced me anyway. Once again, I put my own needs aside and let him abuse and degrade me for a whole year or more. All this because I loved him and wanted to save my marriage. His continued abuse and punishment of me was no better than when someone continues an affair without remorse. I suppose I can be thankful that he decided to divorce me rather than continue to punish me the rest of my life. Because I probably would have taken his abuse much longer if he had not. I would have continued to sacrifice my goals for the benefit of our marriage. He showed me that he was incapable of doing the same for me. Why? Because he never really loved me in the first place. My desire to end my life is not a result of my guilt over my infidelity. It is a result of my new knowledge of people, and especially most men. Most men are emotional kindergardeners, and tend to TAKE much more than they GIVE in that respect. I never needed my H for money, or to be a father to my children, or even for sex. I needed him to be a partner and a friend. I think most men have a hard time doing that, in part because so many women demand so little from their husbands. Also, in part because so many men of my generation still believe that, as long as they are meeting their financial obligations, that they are a "good husband". Sorry, to me all that means is that they are a responsible roommate, not a husband. Most women will settle for a regular paycheck and occasional fatherhood. So, I'm not sacrificing another day of my life to fill the "needs" of another man. <P>So, to make it short, if you cannot forgive your wife and love her, then divorce her. If you decide her needs are not as important as your needs, then let her go. Failure to do so is irresponsible, mean, and unloving. Her bad choices do not give you the right to mistreat her. Not in the past, not in the present, and not in the future.

The Student,<P>I hope it's okay to jump in here... and I'm trusting that it is...<P>I could have written all that you have said. When I came to this board, it was because I was the betrayer, although my H had betrayed me with 3 EA's prior... he never felt a need to find a place like this, I did. I had complete and utter remorse for my actions, was sick both physically and emotionally for an entire year. I confessed to my H for the same reasons you did, and was punished to the point of his having a revenge physical affair. <P>So... I have written direct questions to D99 myself, and he never answered me, and certainly, he never gave me one iota (sp?) of compassion or care. <P>This board can be a scary place sometimes...just like real life... and I just wanted you to know that you aren't alone! I know EXACTLY how you feel!!!

New-beginning,<BR>Boy, this place keeps sucking us back in huh? One of these days I'll figure out why...<P>I'm glad you jumped in. I've got some excellent counseling from my university now. For ONCE it is nice to hear from a counselor that "of course" I haven't given up my education. I'm also part of a women's therapy group. Many of them have issues of non-support from the men in their lives. Makes me so mad.<P>I read your post about the new stuff your H is up to. I really don't understand this tit-for-tat stuff. If anything, infidelity just brings to light issues that have been lingering for a long time. Once out in the open, it seems like so many people have an opportunity to really improve the relationship. Then one or both go out and do something stupid. It is not over with your marriage yet. The stuff your H is doing is just making recovery harder and take longer. Try not to take it personally, if you can. I know it is hard. My H had his own revenge affair about a month after my confession. I don't mention it much here because it was so stupid to me. I didn't even get mad really. I was more mad that he was being a hypocrite. After my first husband slept with over 20 women, I don't think sexual betrayal phases me one bit anymore. Anyway when that didn't hurt me, he had to up the ante till he was finally convinced I was broken. I'm sure that is why he chose the time he did (a week after my mother was diagnosed with cancer) to divorce me. He knew that would hurt me the worst. He is a sick, mean, individual.

Hey! Nice to hear back from you!<P>I so agree about your education, and also about your self-respect and introspection... even in the face of the abuse you suffered from your H. I'm doing some of the same, and it is helping, but I'm not as far forward as you are.<P>Ya know, had my H slept with that woman a month after, I might have had more sympathy. But nine fricken months later? Color me shocked, even though nearly everyone but me saw it coming!<P>I have no idea what sucks us back in here, but I suspect it is a caring for the pain of others, and a need to provide some kind of comfort and strength to others... you think??<P>I really don't talk on the boards much, as I frankly have little desire to repair my marriage (and I've always felt it was up to me, but lately, I am beginning to wonder)... and if you'd ever like to talk off-board please feel free to email me at nbeginning@yahoo.com. Your successful recovery of YOURSELF draws me to your posts, and to you as a woman.<P>Best wishes as you continue this journey of self-healing.<P>~Sheryl

New-beginning,<P>Hey! I saved your e-mail. I'll let you know where I end up. I have to start looking for a job. Ugh. Supposedly the market for engineering grads is pretty hot. I'm kind of relying on that because I'm not up for a full-scale knock on doors kind of process. <P>You know, I used to be a much more fearful person when it came to my day-to-day relations with other people. Since all of this happened, I'm alot more confident. It is like, I've lost everything that is important to me, nothing anyone can say or do can hurt me any more than I've already been hurt. That is all I could think of when I walked into my advisor's office and told him the truth. The OM works for the same advisor (could I be any more stupid, though?). I figured that if I was leaving, then there was no way in *ell I was going to cover for him any more. I had nothing to lose by telling my advisor the truth, and I'm glad I did. <P>There is a certain strength in having been to where I have in my life. I've lived out of a car, I've washed my hair with dish detergent for weeks, been cheated on, lied to, and betrayed in almost every way possible (I sound like a country song now!), and I'm still here! I think you are a strong woman too. Your H is being just very juvenile about all of this. I really do hope that he gets some counseling. 3 EA's and a PA show me that he has some issues to deal with. You are right that it is not your job anymore to fix him.

I smiled at the country song! I used to sing just one line of something that went like this:<P>These four walls are closing in, my marriage in tatters, the children all scattered, the toys on the floor, and me, what a bore.<P>Something like that anyway. <P>I suspect we both will make it, one way or another!<P>Look forward to hearing from you, and keep that email for as long as you need... an open invitation to use it. Okay?<P>Take care!

TheStudent,<P>I hope you don't mind me jumping in here as well. You statements about finding new strength reminded me of a saying that was popular when I was in the military. "They can kill you but they can't eat you." It was the typical military's indelicate way of saying you are strong enough to handle it and no one can take that away from you.<P>TS, I am sorry you are stopping your studies, but I am glad that you are going to finish the quals. Once you rest up a bit, then getting back will look attractive again. I also hope that your opinion of men changes. You only hear and read about the bad ones. If I believed that this board represented the whole marital experience, I would be ready to cash it in. <P>As for jobs, the job market seems to be hot for engineers here in CA, come on out . <P>But most of all I want to say: please TS take good care of yourself, you deserve much better and I am convinced that you will get much better.<P>Take care and I hope to still see you post.<P>God Bless You,<P>JL

Hi JL 'ol buddy,<P>I hope my opinion of men changes too! It is not real fun carrying around this chip on my shoulder (actually it is starting to resemble something more like a boulder than a chip!)<P>I just got off of the phone with an old boss of mine, one of my favorites. Seems they might have something for me back in my old place. My Master's research is right up their alley, and it would be so perfect if it works out. I could go work there for a year (in a field that is directly related to my research), plus my sister and niece live in the same town. My parents and long time friends are only a short drive away too. Really crossing my fingers on this one!!<P>From what everyone tells me, going off to work for a short time (i.e. 6 months to a year) is very common. Sometimes even recommended depending on your specialty. My department head said I could finish my minor on-line or through video too. It is only three classes to finish the minor. So when I get back, wa-la, all I have to do is my dissertation then I'm outta there!! [censored] will probably graduate in a year or so too. Ahh, things are FINALLY looking up!! Thanks for all the encouragement. <P>Still, I am kind of sad it came to this. I'm trying to make the best of it, as you can tell. Hope all is well with you...

TS,<P>You sound so Gooood! I sure hope things do work out the way you want. Yes, a break is often part of the process. I hope that "boulder" finds it way into gravel and then sand and then blows away . <P>You have been through a lot and it does seem that things are turning a corner. It also sounds like telling your advisor about all of this was kind of a catharsis ( sp) for you. Got the everything aired out and the OM sort of out of the picture. <P>You know, TS, it does sound like some happened for the best. Did I say that??? I'm sorry. There were a lot of ways for this to work out that would have made you happier, but you only had control of a small portion of the problem.<P>In any event, you sound good and that really makes me happy.<P>Good Luck and God Bless,<P>JL

Hi TS,<P>Me jumping in too... said to myself, how could I NOT write?<P>I too have wondered how you're doing. When I saw that you'd started a thread, I went to search your recent posts and concluded you were moving along pretty well through the healing process.<P>Then...stunned... read your admission you'd gotten close to suicide. And, instantly I asked, "OMG why!!!! NOOOO!"<P>As we've gotten to know each other in this Forum, you've probably noticed one of my driving forces is to see people reach their potential. TS, you are filled with potential! You have so much to offer, so much to do, so much to experience! You have such gifts!<P>Some terrible things have happened in your life. Especially in the last year or so. You've had more than the average share. More than might be deemed "fair". And, it gets soooo tiring. But there is so much potential.<P>I believe that there is much goodness in this world. And sometimes it's to be found in the most unexpected places. For example, this Forum. Did any of us really expect what we've found here? Many of us came here out of desperation and looking for answers or pain relief. Some now find they stay because they can help others with their own needs.<P>You ask why come back? I'll suggest it's for some very, very human needs. Love. Acceptance. Understanding. Community. Purpose. All these things are to be found here. As well as many unexpected things. <BR>One of the things I've discovered is that it is very very possible to care deeply about people whom one has never physically met. Before the advent of the internet, who could have imagined it? But, it in itself has now become a physical reality of its own. <P>For thousands of years, the norm of human existence has been that we got to know people from the outside-in. See them. Meet them. Become friends. Become more intimate. Layer upon layer. Logical and natural stages, right?<P>Now, there can be another norm. Through the internet, it is very possible to get to know someone from the inside-out. And... I find this paradigm shift to be sooo amazing.<P>I would pose that the evolution of electronic communication techniques is a miracle. It's a process that is still evolving. And I want to be a part of that experience. It's such a fascinating thing. Oh, the potential!<P>Does any of this ring true for you? "Life" can be so amazing, so full of joy. TS... YOU are a joy. And, there ARE many people here who know that.<P>Be well.<BR><P>------------------<BR>I'm just a pilgrim on this road, boy. 'Til I see thee... fare-thee-well. Steve Earle

Amen Dunc! Couldnt have said it better myself.<BR>Stu,<BR> Throw that d*** gun away and keep letting us know how you are doing.<P>Take care!<BR>Bill <BR>(another admirer u didnt know u had)

JL,<P><BR>Yes, telling my advisor was kind of a catharsis for a couple of reasons. During the beginning of me and my ex-H's recovery I had told some not-quite-truths to my advisor in my attempt to separate myself from the OM. Some of these decisions impacted my advisor financially. I find it physically and emotionally impossible for me to knowingly lie to someone who trusts me. I waited to tell him because I had to convince myself that my desire to tell him was not based a desire for revenge. Its not over yet. I still need to pass my last qualifier. My advisor does have some say in that. We'll see what happens...<P>Xman,<BR>My good friend (a man, no less!) took my guns for safekeeping until my parents came to pick them up. They are outta here! My guy friend has been extremely supportive. He knows my situation, and has done much to restore my faith in manhood. So have you guys. <P>Dmac,<BR>I thought I was doing alot better too. The fact that a chain of a few events could bring me so low after all this time was just proof that I could not heal sufficiently in this environment. Basically, if this was a contest with the OM to see who could stay or graduate first, well, I'm not playing anymore. I'm taking my toys and going home!