Arik,<P>Got me out of lurkdom for this one - <P>I know you think much of Harley's stuff is BS, so let's just skip it for now.<P>What you're doing to Nicole is cruel. Like I said, skip Harley and all the plans... just from a human standpoint, how much do you think she can take?<P>Arik, I've never been easy on you, and I'm not starting now. <P>Who do you want, Nicole or the OW??? You know what you're doing?? It's like you've got a bat with a nail in it, and you're hitting Nicole with it over and over... not a clean stab, but a ripping tearing horrific wound that will take years to heal... quit torturing your W... love her and get rid of OW.<BR>

Hey Arik, thanks for the compliments.<P>You basically said you want to ride that freight train a little longer.<P>Good decision. Enjoy the crash.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Arik,<P>In your post you asked if you are just being an insensitive idiot.<P>I don't know you, so I can't answer about the idiot part. But as far as the 'insensitive' part, I would say ABSOLUTELY!<P>You are not just about to lose your wife, you are torturing her and forcing her away from you. Maybe, at least subconciously, that is your intent.<P>And yes, sometimes you have to sacrifice your feelings for another person. That's life.<P>Just look in your wife's eyes and ask yourself this: "Am I treating my wife the way she deserves to be treated? Am I keeping the promises I made to her when we married? Am I putting another person before her?"<P>If you are honest with yourself, you will answer: No, I am not treating her the way I should. No, I an not keeping the promises I made when we married. Yes, I am putting myself before her.<P>And then you will admit what everyone here knows: you are wrong to continue to do something that hurts your wife and your family.<P>Stop doing it. She deserves much, much better. Don't whine about it, don't feel like a martyr, don't try to justify your infidelity; JUST STOP IT.<P>

Arik,<P>There have been many times I have started to reply to your posts but my words don't always come out the way I want them to so I end up not posting. This time I think I'll just let the words flow and post it anyway.<P>I only know your wife from what she has posted here on the board but from that I can tell she is a very special woman and does not deserve what you are forcing on her.<P>There are so many people with a lot of wisdom on this board and they have been sharing it with you from day one. I feel like FHL in that you don't want to be the bad guy. Well...face it..you made a mistake and now is the time to make amends. <P>You said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am in a very strange place where I know what is right and what will begin to mend things, and yet, I can not make the first step. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In my experience there is no such thing as "can't" there is only "won't". It strikes me that you don't want to give this up. There is some pyschological reward in this for <B>you</B>. However it is destroying the people you are professing to love so much.<P>Be couragous, it will take courage whatever road you take. Make a choice, like so many have said, so you can all go on with your lives! <P>I pray for your family everyday and will continue to do so.<P>Jodi<p>[This message has been edited by JodiC (edited February 19, 2000).]

i have not posted since early december, but today husband confirmed what i have been suspecting for a long time. and he sounds just like arik!<P>he is still in contact with OW. i have been using plan A ~ i think i should get the oscar this year!<P>i am working on the weightloss progrom husband requested as part of his stayiing with me (this does wonders in the unconditional love area, especially when OW is heavier & shorter than i was when i started!)<P>am doing more than my share of housework & childcare (am often the buffer when emotions get out of hand between husband & 10 yr old daughter) in an effort to allow him his space and not unreasonable demands.<P>i told him i have known and have been ignoring it, he literally laffed in my face. i'd like to think it was more of a guilt induced laff, rather than actually laffing at me. but at this point i don't know<P>i told him he needs to make up his mind which of us he wants. <P>i've guessed he's e-mailing her & it is confirmed in his own words on this forum! i've guessed he's seeing her & he confirmed it this afternoon.<P>he is contemplating a job in antoher state, the main reason being to get away from her. <i swing to hope mode>. but leaving here would mean leaving some comforting relationships, meaning her! <i swing to anger & jealousy mode><P>so i lost it & am contributing to busting his love. while i am living, working, doing, plan A, who is filling *my* love bank? certainly not husband!<P>but i figure if we move to said other state, that doesn't stop their e-mail. the occasional visit back here to check on our house <how convenient to not sell it, but to become a landlord, huh?><P>how long can i keep doing plan a? how long do i keep being the floor mat? right now my anger & resentment levels are pretty high!<P>is he trying to force me to ask for a divorce?<P>i am so angry this minute i feel like telling him to stay here, keep the *&%$ house & live in it with her & her kids. me & our daughter will make the move.<P>in the long run, i really don't want that, but i am *so* angry!!!<P>when the woman shows her anger she is the *****ing wife. when the man shows his anger his is staking out his manly claim. i don't think so!!!<P><BR>lostgirl, who is very angry right now & will quit writing before she says more things she might regret later!!!!!

Reply withdrawn.<p>[This message has been edited by Being a better Arik (edited February 20, 2000).]

"LET NOT YOUR PEARLS OF WISDOM FALL ON SWINES EARS"<BR>Arik, tired of dealing with the same little boy who thinks he can have his cake and eat it too, along with the ice cream, candy, soda and junk until his stomach aches so much that he looses it all, just where your headed. <P>You will fall badly and Nicole will not be there to pick up the pieces any more. She will be on her own and enjoying the peacefulness that comes with knowing she worked her butt off for someone who couldn't give a **** to her needs. <P>Sorry, took off my kid gloves for awhile but like you need a good punch to wake you up. Too bad so many people are going to come out of this hurting.........<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!

" The main reason I have not been posting is that I get all of these incredible replies and then I realize that I do what I want anyways"<P>This speaks volumes about you Arik. "I do what I want anyways." Yes you do in spite of how it hurts your wife. From what I have read from you, you know that what you are doing is wrong and yet you do it anyways.<P>No contact should not be negotionable. You admit that you love this OW and that you have slept with her. She is an obvious threat to your marriage and I think you know it. Nicole certainly does and yet you ask her to continue to accept the presence of this woman in your life. Even worse you want to make it a condition of continuing your marriage. NO WAY. IT WONT WORK!.<P>You can not under any circumstances expect your wife to be comfortable with you contacting OW when you publicly declare your love to her to us. Wake up Arik! <P>You are doing a terrible thing to your wife. Either have the guts to own up to your felings for the OW and end your marrige or commite to Nicole and end your contact with OW.<P>There is no in between here. <P>ACACIA<BR>

Ya know...I've replied a few times on Arik's threads in helpful friendliness and especially because he reminds me of my H...in the beginning, before we got married.<P>He wanted the total commitment of trust and love from me before he could commit. Well, he got it. And he committed by marrying me. So I got what *I* needed. Ta-da. Doesn't mean end of story, there's always more negotiating to go...but NOT about commitment! <P>Arik, your threads anger me. Not a revelation, I'm sure. A lot of people sound angry in their replies...and upset, and caring, and pleading. And we STILL try, even after you've said you're just going to do whatever you want anyway. Hey, of course you are...but why do you feel the need to shove that in our faces? Do you honestly think your situation is unique??? We're TELLING you what will happen, time tested and true. <P>My blood pressure is up even higher. I boing into judgemental mode. Hate it when that happens. Who are you to think you're above what has happened to MANY other people, like it won't happen to you? Like you CAN make this impossible situation work? And here I was giving you more credit in the intelligence department. I am SO disappointed. REWRITE!!! My own marriage arose out of statistical numbers in the NEGATIVE, and do I think we're going to make it because we're smarter, luckier, BETTER than anyone else? HE*L NO. I think we're going to make it because we're COMMITTED to making it, and we KNOW it's going to be harder than all of our imaginings. We listen to the experiences of others and try to LEARN from them. We DON'T want to make the same mistakes over and over again. <P>I swear, I wish you could experience NOW, like SCROOGE's night of reckoning, what it will be like when Nicole finally says, ok Arik, suddenly I don't have a problem with your relationship with Chrissie, I have no objection (because I've finally given up and turned to someone else TOO, who IS meeting my emotional needs, who IS giving me the fantasy of my dreams because I couldn't depend on YOU!!!! But that doesn't matter any more....). You want her to stop "fussing?" I guarantee the day she stops WITHOUT your help of total commitment, your relationship is over. You will have lost her. And you're right--you WILL deserve it. <P>I hope you don't feel the need to reply to my particular response. Wouldn't want to "put you out" during your quest for self-destruction.

*<p>[This message has been edited by Being a better Arik (edited February 21, 2000).]

Arik,<BR>I haven't responded to this post before because I didn't want to hurt any feelings.<P>You sound so much like my H. He had a rotten childhood. His parents divorced 22 years ago and he has seen his father 3 times since. His mom is now married for the 4th time. (I think she finally got it right). H is a carbon copy of his dad. He can be abusive, is an alcoholic, and right now is neglecting his kids. I understand what he has been thru so I try to understand where he is at right now. I have to say I'm having a hard time today.<P>You CAN be better than your father and step-fathers. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't say it. The cycle can be broken. And I believe you want that or you wouldn't be here. Let me say, I am proud of you for trying. Let all of us be able to say to you that we are proud of you for doing instead of trying.<P>Prayers,<BR>Mitzi

*<p>[This message has been edited by Being a better Arik (edited February 21, 2000).]

I am the shoes of your wife. I can not tell you how hurt I am because my husband lied to me while he continued to see her.<P>I begged him to just be honest with me. It would have hurt but I would be albe to move forward sooner if he would have just told me he wanted to be with er instead of pretending with me.<P>He now says he's 100% committed to me but I do not trust it one bit. <BR>You need to be honest with her if you are so uunsure. You should not keep her hopes up only for her to fall further. <BR>Nothing is worse that to keep starting over when you climb a hurdle.<BR>I do not know where I am going to go because there is soooo much I do not trust. I am sure you you do not want that for your wife.<P>She should be able to trust in herself and you are give her a false sense. <BR> Also in the end when and if you come to your senses, you are going to have a much harder time to fix things with your wife.<P>I can tell you that the first time I found out all I wanted to do was do whatever to make it work. I still had faith in him.<BR>I was even understanding and felt like it was all my falut. <P>After the 2nd revelation, I was devestated, I am so angry that my feeling (which he knew and can cannot use as an excuse) were totally disregarded as nothing and the only thing that mattered were his and her feelings.<P>I hope this helps and I hope it is not too late for you

Arik,<P>You've already gotton lots of good advice here on your thread, but I felt I had to put my $.02 in.<P>I am the betrayer and we are separated right now, she left. I am desperatly trying to win her back to keep our family whole. I believe most sincerely that that is the will of God, that a family should not break up if at all possible.<P>Unfortunatly, my W doesn't see it that way yet.<P>I have cut off all contact with OW, there is none. (actually she sent me 2 e-mails in January to which I did not respond).<P>What pisses me off is while I am trying to get my W to think about forgiving me and consider reconciliation, you have a W who has so lovingly offered you forgivness and you don't seem to appreciate that or respect it.<P>Your comment about being stubborn and that you "can't" stop talking with her about more than just work related issues is a cop-out. It's more of indication of willingness than ability. While you are waiting to "see if things work out before committing to your relationship with Nicole, you are witholding the very thing that would assure that it will work out, the only thing that will assure it in fact, that is your uncompromising committment to Nicole and working on THAT relationship.<P>Be a man Arik, do the right thing.<P>Repenting

Arik,<BR>Why do you think you seek out and even listen to all this "wisdom" and then do what you want?<P>What would motivate you to do that?<P>In part, your currently held opinion that you will not commit to your marriage unless you feel it can be OK, may shed some light on your thought process.<P>Stubborness, which you seem to celebrate, may be a big factor....but I think it may be an easy excuse. I think the deeper reason may be that you give greater emphasis to your feelings rather than your convictions. In our society, that is the norm, so you are certainly not alone.<P>From some of your earlier posts, you indicated your childhood was not easy. You may not have had many positive role models and you may not have been taught or rewarded for honesty, self sacrifice, or defining and standing for your convictions. <P>When you met Nicole, I'm sure she made you feel really great. When this whole mess erupted, you are not getting these same feelings. If you do not appreciate commitment as a virtue in and of itself, then you are allowing yourself to be ruled by your feelings. And if you act only on your feelings, disregarding your commitments, you might as well not make any commitments. What good are they if they end when your feelings change?<P>You may be getting a phycological boast from having two women compete for your affection. In some warped way, maybe it makes you feel good. And if you have little internal constraints, nothing is stopping you or slowing down this freight train.<P>Your motto or bravado of doing whatever you want to do which may by your psychological motivation that gives you the feeling of control. You may not get any internal psychological "reward" from doing the "the right thing". So your feelings...your own will...is more important to you than anything else.<P>Arik, do you really believe putting your own feelings ahead of protecting your family, ahead of the commitment you made to the woman you say you love and vowed to love forever, is acceptable? Can you respect yourself if you do this?<P>I'm not expecting answers from you, but I want you to mentally digest these questions and answer them honestly to yourself.<P>Would you feel less like you are abandoning your family if Nicole asked you to leave? If the answer is yes, is that what you are currently working on?<P>Do you feel good when you do "the right thing" even when it isn't what you want to do or it doesn't feel good, or does it make you feel compromised as a man?<P>What exactly needs to happen for you to feel the marriage will be OK?<P>How would you define commitment? Based on your personal values and convictions what are you currently committed to? Do you believe it is a good thing to stand by a commitment despite your current set of feelings...or do you feel a person is foolish or weak for not following their feelings?<P>If you could actually clone yourself and be in charge of the Building a Better Arik project, what would your clone be like? How would your clone handle this situation?<P>What is stopping you...the real Arik, from becoming or taking the actions of the other Arik?<P>Please search your heart, search your values and your beliefs. Believe in your own strength.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13