These are the exerpts from the book Private Lies by Frank Pittman.. Chapt. 13..<BR>THE DEFECTS OF ROMANTIC 2ND MARRIAGES..(Why marriage to the affair partner rarely ever will work). (Statistically very low chance)<BR>1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a swithc that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.<BR>2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.<P>3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.<P>4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.<P>5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.<BR>6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and peope who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.<BR>7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.<BR>8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.<BR>9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.<BR>10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have alredy demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.<BR>11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.<BR>12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally rpoud of their new marriage.<P><BR>Ok.... i did it.. hope it helps everyone!!<P><BR>IP: Logged<BR><p>[This message has been edited by mickey65 (edited February 20, 2000).]

I read this book and it is a very good book as far as statistics and affairs go. I would recommend it to anyone learning or dealing with this situation.

I needed to read that! I wish H would read it. Maybe then he would be willing to work on our relationship rather than trying to go in a new direction. I think he is going to have to learn the hard way though.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

<BR>Pittman's book is undeniably pro-marriage. But there's a line in the book that he uses, "perfectly accidential infidelity" that makes my skin crawl every time I read it. I can't help but get the impression that he's minimizing how awful a betrayal really is.<P>Bystander

I have lurked around this web for 15 mths now, going through a divorce my self.. I have not posted in a very long time, being there is no hope for my situation.. but...<P>I have a question... I have not read this book, but my ex, (we are almost divorced) has now had 2 divorces.. (me being his second) his brother 4.. his sister 2, and his parents, stayed together until the day they both died.. does this book tell of multiple divorces, and if so, having to do with any ones up bringing.. This has now, (to me) become a pattern in his families life styles, and it of course is being looked at very lightly by his family.. I just found out mths after I sep, that his nephew, (a cop, 42 w/2 kids) has left his wife as well.. You had to see the holiday photo`s my kid brought home, really pathetic, with all the woman, (except SIL) missing!!! <P>The ironic thing, is that all the siblings, live and share one big house, now, and obviously are not frowning upon any of their wrong doings.. My ex BIL, and SIL, never re-married, and now I suppose my ex will not either, so the OW looses out any way.. <P>Just curious...<P>AV<P>

For Whattodo and others...

Just curious, but does anyone know why Pittman goes on in the same chapter to explain how a marriage based on an affair CAN work?<P>I guess I'm curious about the 3% because if a betrayer were to read the book and actually use the principles in it, they could very easily make themselves a better person and marriage partner to their OP.<P>My guess is the 3% who make it are the ones who want to work on the original relationship, read the books, use Marriage Builders, Divorce Busters, or whatever other resources, and realize they can keep the romantic love w/ the OP by following all they've learned. Seems to make sense to me, but I'm in a weird mood tonight. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

Alan. Bingo. You hit the nail right on the head as to why 3% do actually work. I wasn't reading books on marriage to try and save my first marriage though, I was reading up on it so that I would not make the same mistakes in my second marriage that I did with my first. If you follow a lot of the advice that Dr. Harley gives and other authors from other books as far as how to keep your marriage strong it does work. It's just too bad that a lot of marriages get to the point of being unrepairable before they find that info out.

Allen, SparkyDog, BonnieSept, Mickey65 and et al...<P>Double bingo! You all raise a very interesting point that we all I'm sure can relate to regarding each of our experiences.<P>After the earthquake event of infidelity hits any couple, each person obviously has at that point the knowledge and beliefs they acquired all through their live and the relationship regarding this topic and how they feel they will move forward and past this event in their lives. Obviously all couples do not handle this situation with any "Sameness" or clear cut remedy for improvement.<P>BonnieSept really hit the nail on the head. Many of us (at least in my case) see how lacking both partners were to all the "Real Issues" of making a partnership and marriage work and after reading authors like Pittman, Harley, Vaughn, Abrahms, Gottman, Hendrix, Schwartz...and the names go on...had this feeling of how one could be so lacking in the real skills of relationship success.<P>The more I read the more I felt like I grew up with the unreal fantasy and image of what it takes to live happily ever after. Real world...how many of you had all the elements in your giver and taker parts understood in your relationship not to mention had a clear understanding of the emotional needs elements that Dr. Harley outlines in his His Needs/Her Needs questionaire. <P>Anyone have the same thoughts?<P>mrrlk

This is exactly my problem. My H can't and won't do anything with me or on his own to work on our relationship other than to make sure he has lots of sex. Claims he has NO time and if I don't like how he is we should divorce. I'm so starved for love after seven years of this that any disfunctional guy who comes along and flatters me is an instant crush. I have learned so much from these books. Even tonight I was watching my daughter play at Burger King while H stayed home to make himself a burrito and found myself making MB lists for applying the concepts to OM! Help!

You won't believe this! My H read this book before he embarked on his affair. I see the book now sitting here in the room and I have not been able to read it because of this. <P>It also scares me what Bystander and Sparkeydog have said about the book.<P>Pam

Pinky,<P>Read this book, its a good one. It frightens me to think someone would read it and THEN have an affair, but it is a very awesome book and did bring me some peace of mind. Dana<BR>

I am no longer at all convinced that it makes any difference whether or not either partner knows anything about "relationship skills". My H's avoidance of communication about anything difficult has been an issue for the quarter of a century that I have known him, and from what he has told me, it was true of his childhood as well. I rather doubt that that is going to change. All 12 of the defects in romantic second marriages that Pittman discussed should be issues in his relationship with the OW. Even the boards for other women advise that the MM not move in with the OW immediately after leaving his wife, because he will associate the guilt he feels with the OW, yet that is basically what he did. Of course that would not be a factor unless he actually felt guilt. <P>He has given up so much for this relationship. Two of his kids don't want anything to do with him; he sees less and less of the kids, undoubtedly at the instigation of the OW. The OW is undoubtedly pressuring him about a lot of things.<P>Yet none of this makes any difference. He moved out more than a year ago, and the affair seems to be still going strong. He is consumed with hatred for me that is increasing with each passing day. MB principles did not work - in fact he seems to hate me all the more for the fact that I don't hate him. <P>Perhaps his relationship with the OW will fail eventually, but what reason is there to believe that it might not be 20 years from now?

<I>back up to the top!!!</I><P>A very interesting must-read!<P>------------------<BR>~~ Elixir ~~<P>

Interesting feedback.. My h read this book and I never really new if it sunk in or not until his friend told me that he was quoting some things out of the book to him,, Like,, did you know that there is only about a 3% chance that h and ow would work out.. and that affairs usually end up no where.. I do think it is a reality dose.. My h, while in his fantasy mode would have believed that they could have been together through everything. Once he had a dose of reality,,, and soul searching combined with educating himself on affairs,, he started to get better..<P>I think many wayward spouses that get to the point of reading or reaching out for help have won 1/2 the battle,, so that helps. I believe the kind of person that would actually leave their spouse when there was a generally good marriage, wont be someone that tries to make changes in themselves in the 2nd marriage. I believe they think a mere change in scenery will make them happy and thats where the mistakes made. If they are willing to make changes and work on something,, why not do it with their spouse, whom they have a history, family, financial ties, and probably a decent marriage to begin with until op came into the picture.<P>With my h,, I think he knew deep down that the relationship would not work out with ow. H always told me he knew that it wouldnt work, but it helped him read about it. He always said ow could not offer any more than me, in fact it was less,, so why give up everything to start a new life with someone that in a year the new excitement will ware off and h would regret losing everything.. <BR>Pittman also states in this book that the 3% that did have a successfull marriage to op often came from a terrible marriage,, (sometimes abuse, neglect, drugs, alcohol,, not all cases), but in these, it was easier for wayward spouse to move on.<P>Cant remember who posted about wayward spouse not living with op right after leaving wife,, Wow was that true.. My h lived with ow for 2 months.. Left from ours and went and leased an apartment. Within 2 weeks he was calling me crying telling me how horrible he felt and how he knew he had made a mistake.<P>Of course every situation is different, but I do think it is a good sign for a wayward spouse to be interested in reading materials to get help...

Back to the top for those wondering will it work with OP

I have been following this topic with much interest, as I read the book, while going through my divorce. My ex left me after 28 yrs of marriage for OW. He was having affair for 8 mo before telling me. We were divorced 10 days after our 29 th wedding anniversary. Ex was in military and was stationed in another state, and that is where he met her and conducted the affair. He moved her to our state 6 weeks after divorce was final and they have been living together ever since. It has been three years now and they became engaged a few months ago, but supposedly no date has been set. They are both in their 50's. She never had any children, although she was married a long time ago, and had a previous 10 yr relationship prior to my ex. My ex and I have 4 children and it was a terrible shock to them and our lives are just now stabilizing. It looks like my ex and his OW are going to be in the 3% that may actually make it. And I hate it!!!

Thank you for posting that. I need to find that book--for me--and I need to print this page for him. Because he will read no "psycho-babble" books. We need all the help that we can get. Thanx again.