Are there any betrayers out there whose OP didn't mean anything to them? I'm just curious about this. My H is adamant that the OW means and meant nothing to him (affair was less than 2 months long).<P>We are in 9 months of recovery and OW has been out of the picture. However, over the weekend, the OW tried to contact him via e-mail (she got his e-mail address from his co-workers mistress). This is after a 9 month absence, although inbetween that time, she has occasionally used her friends to confront him about talking to her. He had not given in. <BR>But when she e-mailed him, he did respond. He sent her stupid jokes! I saw the 2 e-mails.<P>He immediately suggested/initiated and wrote the NO CONTACT letter to her. That did make me feel a little better.<BR> But, if she doesn't mean anything to him, and he knows what damage this has done to our marriage....why in the world, respond to her e-mail in the first place?<P>We have been recovering well and I just don't understand this. He says he can't understand his actions because it was senseless, inconsiderate and stupid. He doesn't even like her. He said he F@### Up again!<P>Can anyone give me insight?<BR><p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited December 01, 1999).]

I don't think my H cared about her. She was a stranger when she came on to him and kissed him in a bar. How disgusting for both of them.<P>Anyway, he was sucked in, but came to see her for what she was and was trying to pull away when I discovered. He kept up phone contact for a while in part because he was afraid of what she might do to embarrass him if he did not.<P>I truly think he is as surprised by his own behavior as I was.<P>In my case not having a previous friendship and the OW being a brazen hussy led him to not even like or respect her.<P>I'm feeling fortunate.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi NO Trust,<P>I am not the betrayer but the betrayed and Tony feels the same way about all his women even Peaches. He dated her for a couple of months. He gives no thought what so ever about them. I can see why he was not thinking about the on-line women but what about Peaches. He had sex with her for two months and then communicated with her for another six months I guess just about what ever. I think he just did not want to blow her off completely. Tony just did not think about his actions in regards to still talking to Peaches. He has no explination why he did that. I have thought about it asked questions about him contacting Peaches and to be honest I think in his mind he was doing the right thing. She would contact him and then he would contact her back. He just did not want to seem rude. Does this make since? <P>It was a very stupid thing he did and some days he still pays for it by my being down and having to wonder. For Tony it ment nothing for me it ment everything. I might point out to your H that by doing this it makes it that much harder to recover. I still wonder sometimes does he still talk to her? I mean she knew we moved and everything about me. This is someone that I would not have been friends with to begin with and she knew everything there was to know about me. That really bothers me. I guess you just have to tell your H again the entire NO Contact rule. I know I had to tell Tony about a million times before he understood the concept.<P>Sorry you had to deal with this.

Last week, I finally asked my H the two questions I had wanted to ask him about the STD Tramp.<BR>1. I asked him if he ever told her that she had given us a disease. He said, "No, because at the time, he didn't know it was a disease--just thought it was a yeast infection." (Yeah.....right! Then why did he suddenly decide to go to the doctor with me?)<P>2. I asked him if he went to the funeral home when she died. He said, "No, she meant nothing to me." (My thought was she meant enough to him at the moment that he forgot about me.)<P>Basically, she was just a bar whore who was available. It's sort of funny (not haha kind of funny)....I'm glad that he wasn't emotionally entangled with her, but insulted that someone so trashy could replace me, even for a moment.<P>What still hurts most, though, is feeling that he had an emotional connection with Cafe Woman, which he denies.

My H insists it was nothing more than sex. He wanted to experience it with someone else and wanted to experience it with someone he felt was interested.<P>He says he began to feel affection toward the end because it made the sex better. He says she is nothing to him anymore and he doesn't feel anything.<P>To me this is almost even more thoughtless and calous. It just reinforces my impression of him that he is incapable of feeling period. I guess it would be harder for me to deal with him having loved her and being in love with her.<P>I think he was more than he will admit, but there have been just too much fake living and lies to know for sure.

Ok this is one that stumps me too, My H says OW meant nothing and if he sawing her today he would not even look at her. SO how if this is true can you through away something you say you cherish so much for OW who you cannot stand. AM I STUPID TO BUY THIS><P>------------------<BR>God is our refuge and STRENGTH,<BR>A very Present help in trouble.<BR>Psalm 46:1<BR>I sought the Lord and he heard me, <BR>and delivered me from all my fears.<BR>Psalms 34:4<P>

Well, I've been waiting for this one. My wife hasn't posted as of yet but maybe this one will help her. I found out about her affair before she found out about all of mine. We were both devistated in each case. It makes no difference it seems to the betrayed party if the spouse felt anything for the OP. She did and I never did. Our latest talks have centered on her telling me she has never felt so close to me as she does now. I asked then why did she go to him. Her reply was that she wasn't getting that connection with me then. (I can change that now.........but, what a price to pay). I told her that in each of my relationships outside of our marriage I felt almost dirty and in no way felt anything emotional for the OP. It really doesn't matter what I felt, to her it is what I did. And in her mind she is right and I have to respect that. In both of our situations we have agreed that OP is out of the picture and they are. Now we can rebuild what we so foolishly tore down.

I have been the betrayer and now most recently the betrayed. Although, in my betrayal and I can say that the OW met nothing to me whatsoever. It was a 1 month fling that occured due to stress, confusion about my emotions toward my GF, and things of that nature.<P>I haven't spoken to the OW in many months,. nor do I have any desire to do so because I want my GF back in my life once again. Unfortunately, my fling caused her to react with her having an affiar. Hopefully, we can mend our relationship.<P>Hopefully, your H had something like mine. A stupid fling. I admit that I was thinking with my penis and not my head, although I put that part of my life behind me and move on towards a great future with my son and GF. I hope your H can do the same. <P>Joey (lostandbroken)<BR>

My OM meant nothing to me. He was a one night stand and that was it. It was a curiousity thing for me more than anything else. He wanted more though. He found out my other hotmail account and contacted me using that account. My H responded to him. This conversation went on for a few days. My H responded to about 6 of his emails. He responded to one and I responded to him telling him that he was talking to my H and not me. Then I told him that I didn't have feelings for him, that I wanted to fix my marriage with my H and to leave me alone. I haven't heard from him since then and that was last April. I think if my H and I ever saw him, I would not hold my H back. Yes my H would want to beat the crap out of him. I would probably not try to stop.

Everyone: Thanks for your replies. I guess I will never fully understand the irresponsible actions of my H. Affairs are senseless so how can I make any sense of this? I analyze and I analyze and still don't understand.<P>

Dylan and I have been reading and replying to a lot of posts together lately. I, as the betrayer also hold to that fact that the OW meant nothing to me. Dylan finds this perplexing so this reply is for her as well. It may shed some light.<BR>Obviously something meant something, for this has happened, and as I explain this, it may seem like rationaliztion or the offering of excuses. I try not to do this, because the type of person that I want to be sees that there is a bottom line to all this, one that cannot be crossed, for any reason. <BR>In anycase, probably the case for many here, the marriage was in the pits. Had been in a slow decline for a few years. Viscious cirlce syndrome - me, depressed over mother's death, loss of job, useless degree, blah blah blah, her, increasingly uninterested in the lump behind the computer. We never fought, or were mean to each other, but the 'spark' was way gone.<BR>In the spring, Dylan and I were becoming all to aware of the crisis. I confronted her (calmly and reasonably) with the fact that I believed she was no longer 'in love' with me. The fact that she LOVED me was never in question, but the fact that she wasn't in love with me was devastating.<BR>I met OW while working on a fence for her neighbour. She then hired me to pour some concrete at her residence. After finishing hers, another neighbour hired me and another and I literally spent most of the summer working on that block.<BR>The flirting started pretty quickly. She was easy to talk to and I unloaded a lot about what was happening at home. She knew right from the start that I loved my wife and wanted my marriage to work (this is verifiable truth, she freely admitted this to Dylan during their period of email exhanges - 20-30 messages, including a few long chats - oooooh- I HATED that) and spoke of how she was having this affair with this other married guy and how it was once in a while and no strings attached, blah blah blah...<BR>The flirting at first was great. I had just been told by my wife that she was no longer in love with me - at the time I didn't see how I wasn't giving her much of a man to BE in love with. She had plans of spending a month in the US with Mom to rethink things, find herself. In my mind, come to a decision to leave me. (After that, we did continue to work on our marriage, and Dylan DID tell me that she wanted to be 'in love' with me, just for the record)<BR>So the flirting felt good. I was being shown desire, though it seemed innocent enough at first, and it felt so good I didn't want it to stop. It seemed like I hadn't felt sexy or attractive in soooo long.<BR>I was telling myself the whole time how wrong it was, and my ego and conscience were in constant conflict. I had flimsy justifications that now make so little sense to me, but at the time, I couldn't resist. Part of me didn't want to resist. Anyway, I didn't resist.<BR>After the fact, I felt so guilty that I went to the washroom to wash up and OW asked me if I was trying to 'wash it off'. (also verifiable fact)<BR>After that, things cooled. I made no secret of my guilt, saying things like (and please don't puke and write me off here) I felt not so guilty about sleeping with OW as I did deceiving LW (Loyal Wife). But OW sensed my feelings and backed off for a while. <BR>There was a mutual attraction. I'm not claiming to have fought off her advances. I craved being desired, and thought of as irresitable, the feeling attacked every inadequecy I'd felt over the last three years and I didn't have the stregnth, integrity or wisdom to react in a more proactive or responsible manner.<BR>OW was sending me tons of referrals, and doing everything to keep me near her. The sex wasn't overly frequent. Tension would build, erupt and pass, for me. The guilt never let me go any further. Well, the guilt and OW's reactions. <BR>Dylan left to visit Mom end of August. Part of me was determined to 'be good' but as visit started, I got the feeling that nothing was going to change. (of course not, if you want things to change, you change. If you want things to get better, you get better.) <BR>OW knew wife was out of town and was constantly asking me over. I refused mostly, using my roommate (who was also working for me) as an excuse, and even bring him along when I could as 'protection'. I did give in though, make no mistake about it. I would bring chaperone, because I knew I couldn't be trusted. But sometime I didn't bring the chaperone.<BR>In the three months that this entanglement lasted, I was only there exclusively for sex twice. All the other times were work related, that is things were not planned, they just happened.<BR>As OW became more attached, I put greater effort into running away, though too weak willed to put my foot down and make myself clear. And naturally the temptation would come back as the fresh guilt faded - usually about a week or so.<BR>So, the question remains, why sacrifice so much when OW meant so little? <BR>Here's part of it... Men don't think with their penises. If you want to use that expression, you could say that men think with their egos. My whole entanglement stemmed from my ego being stoked. I don't actually have an insatiable sexdrive, but when your daily actions don't do much to reinforce a postive self image, raw desire from someone is a quick fix.<BR>So on an unhealthy level, OW was meeting my (unhealthy) needs. Not that wanting to feel sexy and desirable is unhealthy, but in my case, the psychological base for it is- it's a way to deal with insecurity. <BR>Anyway, a lack of clarity is what led to me making a decision to sacrifice what I cherish most 'for someone who meant that little to me'. A lack of vision of the big picture, or even the true picture for that matter.<P>Since D-day, I've been making every effort to change the type of husband/father/person I am. I'm even going to quit smoking because it's simply 'wrong'. It's working. Dylan and I have been physically closer since my personal revelations. I'm sexier to her because I am acting in a more worthwile manner - being more 'present' in our lives.<P>All those needs that were being met by OW are not only being met by Dylan, but far surpassed because there is truth and love in them. Not only that, but there is no guilt sullying the whole thing - well there still is, but guilt about the past is not the same as guilt about the present.<BR>I have felt no, and I repeat NO feelings of withdrawl. I'm pretty sure this is not denial, as I have spent much time introspecting in the last couple of months, well longer than that, but the last couple of months have been harsh reality stuff. <BR>Anyway, this is really long winded, I guess you didn't need the whole story, (and, hey, this is just the abreviated version)<BR>Do I still think of her? Nope, not like that.<BR>I have to drive by her place of work on occaision, and all it is is a painful reminder of what I have done.<BR>Maybe somewhere in this rambling saga, you will find a bit of enlightenment. I purpsely gave you details so that you could understand where some of the motivation came from and not just the nature of it. I hope so.<BR>Deut.<BR>Again, I am posting without re-reading - I apologize for the spelling (one that I caught had my 'eggo' being stroked) and the occaisional sentence that made no sense. <BR>And Dylan, I hope this made sense to you too.

Thank you everyone for responding. Soulloss' Ex...I really appreciate how you described what led you to have an affair with that OW. I had my H read your reply and he said that he could relate to what you did and why. Your explanation helped me understand, in some way, why my H did what he did (have an affair to begin with). I just wish I could understand why, after 9 months, would he respond to her e-mail. Why do this if your marriage is recovering well, you don't want to hurt your spouse anymore, you are happy with how your life is moving forward, and you don't like the OW anyway. Why invite trouble? Still doesn't make sense to me.

nothing in these situations makes sense.....he said responding was senseless, inconsiderate and stupid?..sounds just like the affair......<P>on a personal level, its not whether the OW meant anything that bothers me about H's entanglement, rather, its that I must have meant so little......<P>take your 9 months of recovery, and run with it, he sent her the no-contact letter? good for you. good for him. and good for the both of you.<P>now go on, hug each other,...

I hate to butt in on this post and send it astray but the subject line caught my eye and I had to post.<P>I have gotten more help from the few posts I have read of soulloss and soulloss exH-probably due to the fact that their story so fits the picture here.<P>Thanks so much to Dylan and her H for being here and speaking from the heart!!!!!! Today was another bad day for me-and here it is 6 months after finding out. But reading this stuff helps me to hear my H's words much more clearly. I love him so much and he hurt me so bad......................<P>Soulloss-I posted on your thread from a few days ago but I am not sure you got to read it as so many new posts have been added-maybe you can go there ?<P>Thanks again to all-and take care of yourselves and those who mean something to you!!!!!<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

heartache.....I just responded to you on the other post.....and I too, am sorry to be butting-in on NoTrust's post......but if Deut and I have helped in any way, then something good just came out of this chaos and fiasco, and you have NO IDEA what you have just done for me.....<P>if our pain helped even 1 person, then H's 'affair', by my own personal karmic standards, was not meaningless........thank you.<P>as for having bad days 6 months later, well, I am only 2 months into this whole ordeal, and I can imagine.......thats why this place is so important.....good days and bad.<P>As for speaking from the heart, well, I don't know any other way to do it. I just wish both of us would learn not to write 'novels' as posts,,,LOL<P>take care of you. then take care of him, then take care of the 'us'.<P>Dylan

I am the betrayed. 5 months into recovery. My H had several meaningless affairs - met women in bars when out of town or at corporate office. This happened over the course of 10 years and I never suspected or imagined that he could do such a thing. He has always been a devoted husband, father and I thought a devoted, faithful Christian. He states that the affairs meant nothing and he never even had second thoughts about the women. Just a fun fling while out of town. He has also told me that he knew what he had at home (faithful, devoted - Christian wife and mother) and never even really thought what he was doing would hurt me or our marriage. Yeah - as long as I never found out. His last fling was 9 years ago and he no longer works out of town. Yes, I believe that his affairs were not of the heart but of the body but the pain is still great. If he had loved one of these women or had feelings for her, I would not be with him today. It's hard enough to know that he shared his body with someone but I could never stand for sharing emotions, feelings etc. We have grown closer in all ways since he told me of these affairs but my pain is still great and I don't know if I can ever get over or understand why he did this to me and us. I don't feel the same about anything or anyone any more.

Please don't think about your replies as butting in on my Post. If the replies can help anyone, regardless of who's Post it is, then I think that is wonderful. We're all here to help each other.<P>Thanks again for your support....

I sure do appreciate that No Trust!! I sometimes hate to post on this web site at all as I wonder if the OW is reding the things I write-but if she is then she knows the damage she has done to me. I so wish to heal-but I have doubts that I can ever even go a day without thinking about this time in my life - let alone forget it completely........ But all in all I sure do learn a ton from opther people-and it does help even if only temporarily.<BR>Thanks again for letting me use your post to touch bases with Soulless.<P> <P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>