Being a better Arik -- I wanted to take the time to respond to you once more on this subject. You seem to have calmed down a little, and that is very god. So onward . . .<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What I asked for, is honesty, not name calling. Can you differentiate between the two?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Firstly, I am reminded of a childrens rhyme . . .<B>Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me.</B> Yes I can very well differentiate between the two. In fact there have been times when I have been lashed at and called names during my time on this forum. I however did not fell the need then to threaten those who were doing the name calling. Yes there were some rather heated discussions, on both sides of the situation, but that is as far as it went.<P>I also understand very well that having to live through infidelity can result in a lot of things being said which can cause tremendous pain. I don't think we need to add insult to injury by continuing to try and inflict even more pain by further name calling here on this forum.<P>And for the record . . . I think that most if not all of the members of this forum have been guilty of name calling during our battles with infidelity. Sometimes the names fit . . . Sometimes they don't.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I will not address your "invitation" to me, in hopes that I can retain some of my lost dignity from my last post.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This I think is a very wise and mature descision. In fact, had it not been for this statement, I would not be replying to you now. It is very hard sometimes to maintain even the slightest trace of dignity while trying to survive infidelity . . . regardless of which side we happen to fall on.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am not always an [censored], though it isn't very apparent here. I really hope that one day, I'll be posting to somebody like me. Maybe then I can say "yes, I pi$$ed off a lot of people, but now..." Only time and my decisions will dictate that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Being an [censored] is not always necessarily a bad thing. I personally have had jobs in the past where in order to be effective I needed to be an [censored] at times. Those who work or have worked in management, can probably say the same thing to some degree or other.<P>The thing is, we have to choose our battles. We have to pick the times, places and circumstances which would benefit from this type of behavior. I for one do not believe that chosing to use this behavior against our spouse is the right time, place or circumstance. Using it to fight for our spose maybe, but not to fight against them. This is the Marriage Builders site after all.<P>Arik, I have checked in on the progress that you and Nicole have been making from time to time. I have often felt that the two of you had a better than average chance of making it through all this together. Unfortunately, as a result of the choices you have made in the past, you both have a very difficult path ahead of you. It is not easy, but it can be very rewarding.<P>Very often, most times in fact, it is the betrayed who has to do 99% of the work at rebuilding a broken marriage. The betrtayer first has to endure the pain of infidelity, then ahs to do the majority of the work to try and rebuild. This is a very demanding task at best. I know, I've been there.<P>Now think about this logically for just a minute . . . Is it right that the betrayer not only gets to have their affair, or affairs, as the case may be. Inflict as much pain as they do on their families, then when they decide to come home, they are required to do nothing except pick up where they left off?? I personally do not think that this is right. From what I have read in some of your posts, I don't believe that Arik the man does either.<P>Arik, I want to apologize for coming on so strong in my previous reply. I realize that this can not be easy for you, but just for a moment, take a step back from all the emotion and put yourself in Nicole's place. Would you want to be treated this way?<P>I will continue to pray for both you and Nicole.<P>God Bless<p>[This message has been edited by Empty Shell (edited February 20, 2000).]

Arik, how is it that anyone can "push" you to do something if you always do what you want anyway.<P>No one controls your behavior but you. No one chooses your actions but you.<P>Yes, I would say anything I have said to your face.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

k... <P>>>I don't think that it would be much fun showing a guy like him the harsh reality of what it means to lose horribly in front of an audience.>>><P>you asked for it... this is an email from a friend, explaining how to make it...<P> [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] <BR>Resh Rebbet? You're funny. Welsh Rarebit, I believe is the concoction you're <BR>referring to. I didn't even think you liked that stuff. basically what cha <BR>do is you make a whack of bread crumbs. I'd say 2-3 slices per person, but <BR>I'm a pig, and am assuming it's as a meal and not a side order. So ya keep <BR>adding milk to your breadcrumbs in a pot on the stove until it's like, oh, i <BR>don't know, chunky puke consistancy. In fact, the whole think kinda looks <BR>like puke. Now this is all reminding me of a Deep Thought by Jack Handy that <BR>goes something like: Laurie was offended that I used the word "puke" to <BR>describe her meal, but to me, that's what it tasted like.<P>I digress.<P>So you get your breadcrumbs, milk, the bread should absorb the milk. Then <BR>you add hot mustard powder, play with the amount, I'd say half a tablespoon, <BR>but I've been known to put in far more. Then you add vinegar, again it's up <BR>to you, i like it with alot of vinegar (Geez, Deut, Dylan's gonna puke when <BR>she sees this recipe). I'd almost go as far as putting a few tablespoons. <BR>Then finally, you add a ton of grated cheese, like a few cups, whatever. <BR>There's no set amounts, all depends on your mood. So melt the cheese in and <BR>there ya go, babe!<BR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<P>heheheheheh

Arik,<P>You know how to solve this problem (impending separation from Nicole, Nicole losing her love for you, eventually ending up not liking yourself at all and losing your family in the process), but like you've said before, you don't want to own up to the pain you've caused Nicole. It sometimes hurts way too much to come to grips with what you've really done. I was the betrayer too, and I was suicidal after getting away from the OM, and it wasn't because of the fact of my missing him, it was because I felt so horrible about myself that I didn't want to look in the mirror knowing what I did. You can only push that pain down into the deepest recesses for so long before it becomes a volcano.<P>When I first read what you posted awhile ago, I can say that I was really angry at your actions. I think I was more angry at myself, because I was where you are at to a certain degree. I wasn't at all civil in my posts; but now I truly feel sad for you. Sad for the loss you will experience when Nicole loses her love for you. You see, my husband said he fell out of love with me after my affair. I had a hell of a time trying to regain that trust, the bond we had before. And I did realize how much I truly loved him, and how pathetic I was for what I had done to him and my family. You know that he ended up having a rebound affair because of the pain I had caused him? Not that this is justifiable, but it can happen when a betrayed spouse feels like they're worth zero after their spouse does this to them. My husband explained to me how much he felt like a worthless nothing after my neglect toward him and my affair. You don't even know what damage you're causing Nicole, and it doesn't go away overnight; right now you're paving a path that is going to have to be torn up and re-paved, there is so much work to do even now to regain any semblance of trust from her, but it's so much worth it. She is a wonderful lady, and you know da*# well how special she is and that most people wouldn't put up with this, right? (Please take what I'm saying with love, I am feeling horrible for the situation)<P>I think you're overwhelmed, and I also think that you wouldn't still be here reading if you didn't want your marriage. <P>My husband and I rented The Story of Us last night. Have you seen it? I cried at the end, it's so touching how all couples experience problems, but some choose to overcome and grow by them. You know that you and Nicole have history, you have wonderful memories, you need to realize that sometimes we take for granted that which is closest to us. If Nicole wasn't there for you, I can bet you'd be missing her terribly. <P>I hope you find out quickly how special Nicole really is.<P>

HI Pal,<BR> Whining again huh? Wow, I've been away a month or so and you're STILL whining. Maybe you should change your name again to "BEING LESS OF A WHINER" <BR> BTW, I wouldn't go around calling out the "betrayed" because most have an anger that would kick Mike Tyson's a**. <BR> Just try and get a grip will you please. How are the kids BTW? FRANK<P>"THE GREATEST GIFT YOU CAN GIVE YOUR CHILDREN IS TWO PARENTS THAT LOVE EACH OTHER"<p>[This message has been edited by PLEASE HELP (edited February 21, 2000).]

Arik, <P>I have browsed through your threads for some time now. You seem to do this often. Flame folks so that they will post, then you respond to stump as to why they are wrong. You offer yourself and your flaws, then dictate to those who recognize these, as to why they are wrong. <P>It's not about maturity, it's about insecurity. What I've seen is a guy who craves attention. You seem to do it here, is that why you continue to do the rubberband thing with your marriage? When things slow down, you seem to bring up other issues to reinitiate the attention. I can't offer any solutions. I would suggest that you try to enjoy life and honestly, not worry about the opinions and approval of others. I have reread my post, it sounds a litle nasty; I can't change it though, it's what I think. You ask, we tell. This post won't change your life, but stop reacting and simply listen, you may learn something. I'm not trying to be mean.<P>Eric32

Eric32, maybe you're on to something. Arik needs a lot of attention. As we all know, when it's mere attention that's craved, negative attention is better than none. Arik knows that when he stays in touch with OW, he gets positive attention from OW, Nicole gets jealous so she steps up HER attentions, and when he posts here we all go wacko.<P>Maybe if Nicole starts ignoring him and we start ignoring him, OW's attentions won't be enough?<P>BTW, Arik, just some food for thought: Why do you you want a woman (OW) who cheats on her H? Oh yeah. "He doesn't understand her."<P>Classic.

My, my, my. What's up, son, did you wait 'til I was out of town to stir the soup up a bit? Don't think that'll save you from a lecture! Now, I'm heading on to find out what all the commotion's about and then, well, you know, you'll have to hear from Mom!!!!<P>Besides, I've decided we need to talk. Pop me an e-mail, ok? <P>Lori

This man needs professional help.<P>I won't be reading or posting on his threads any more.<P>Nicole--best wishes. I'm praying for you.

Y*A*W*N on your little threats, Arik... but nice job in deflecting the attentions away from your shortcomings as a man. Last thoughts on this... don’t forget there’s always someone bigger, stronger, and meaner than yourself... you might be that to me, and then again, you might not. Immaterial; we’ll never meet (the one thing you HAVE been right about), and you wouldn’t be worth getting disqualified for anyway. Besides, I would dishonor my Master and my school were I to really let loose upon you, and you’re <B>certainly</B> not worth that.<P>That <B>does</B> raise an interesting thought though, and I’m glad you brought it up. Martial Arts are a wonderful thing; they teach us not only how to defend ourselves, but also how to treat our fellow human being. Central to what I have learned are the concepts of <B><I>HONOR</I></B> and <B><I>RESPECT</I></B>... Do you even <B>remember</B> those concepts? They are at the core of not only what I have studied but of <B>every</B> Martial Art I have ever even <B>heard</B> of. Sadly, it really doesn’t surprise me very much that these concepts mean so little to you. After all, how could they mean anything in that context when they meant so little to you when included as part of your marriage vows?<P>...and before you try your deflections again and attempt to call <B>me</B> on the lack of respect I am showing, I’ll admit it... I have no respect for you whatsoever. The “man” you are now simply doesn’t deserve any. That may well change; hopefully, something <I>someone</I> says will strike a chord with you, and you can once again be the man Nicole fell in love with and married. A man deserving of respect rather than contempt, who fills his wife’s eyes with tears of love rather than of anguish.<P>Oh, and one thought on your comment... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> WhoDat- apparently you are a better man than I. Glad to see that someone here is as perfect as you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am <B>FAR</B> from perfect, but yes... I <B>AM</B> a much better man than you. That’s not terribly difficult, though.<P>Apologies to everyone else for stooping to Arik’s level... I hadn’t intended to ever post again, and I guess the best way to avoid that is to avoid reading as well. I guess it just hits a little close to home, the supreme disrespect and utter disregard for Nicole’s feelings he has shown. I did much the same to my own W while my affair was ongoing... not to the level Arik has, of course, but that’s only a matter of degree. Sure, it’s an exponential degree, but that’s only semantics. But to heap the abuse upon her on top of all that is just beneath contempt.<P>Nicole, my thoughts are with you; I hope someday the man you married comes back and replaces the petulant child who now inhabits his body... if, that is, you even still want him by then.<P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited February 21, 2000).]

Hey, WhoDat, nice to see you!<P>Frankly, I'm APPLAUDING your posts to Arik. <P>You're the only one with the intestinal fortitude to still take him on.

Dear Arik,<P>The formerly disposable Lizzie (Borden) Smith (who dreamt she took an ax and gave the OW 30 whacks, one for each time they boinked) now her husband's "Pearl of Great Price"; has just one thing to say, ok, two.<P>"The trouble with straddling a fence is you look so foolish to those around you with a picket up your ..." POGP 2/2000<P>Counseling, my dear, counseling. FOR YOU, not for the marriage, not for Nicole. For you, whether you stay married or not. <P>Otherwise, I am afraid you'll be on the national news holding a McDonald's full of innocents hostage while you rant for the cameras. Your posts scare me.<P>lizzie/pearl<P>p.s. to WhoDat: Xanax/chamomile tea/bourbon<BR>(your choice, not mixed together! )<P>------------------<P>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited February 21, 2000).]

<BR>Arik,<P>I recall reading a study about the nature of interpersonal interaction via email as long ago as 1988. The researchers way back then found that email led to a much-lower degree of formality than would otherwise be expected, given status differentials among the correspondents. Even then, the Internet was creating a culture of "wide open" communication.<P>I guess the modern-day version is the willingness to say things in forums, such as MB, that we might not otherwise say in person. But that's good, not bad. Forums like this give people a chance to really speak their minds, to say what they really believe. Frankly, the reason you came here in the first place was to see what others had to say about your situation. And surely we can agree that shooting the messenger might make you feel good, but it will never change the message.<P>And what is the message? I have to admit, I haven't followed your tale closely. Skimming this and a couple of other threads, I surmise that you have betrayed your wife Nicole, you claim to currently be in love with an OW named Chrissie, and you refuse to fully commit to the marriage unless Nicole can guarantee you some unspecified positive outcome. The rest of my post is going to be based on these assumptions (correct me if I'm wrong about these assumptions, but I believe I can quote you if necessary).<P>Arik, tell me this: Why are you still here? Do you really expect a forum that is populated with people who have lived through the horror of infidelity to pat you on the back for continuing to betray your spouse? I mean, on the surface, it seems kind of ridiculous, wouldn't you say? Of course, you already know this, and because of this its safe to assume that part of you really wants to save your marriage. Not because of the very real threat of financial ruin from child support, divorce, and alimony, but because you still love Nicole. Lets drop the chest-thumping nonsense and face this: You still love Nicole.<P>But that begs another question: Why are you hurting Nicole? I'm not denying that you love Chrissie, too - but the fact is, your love for Chrissie is neither an explanation nor a justification for what you're doing to Nicole. When we look at it objectively, what you are doing is profoundly wrong - and your defensiveness in this forum tells me that you know its wrong. Something has to change here.<P>And you know what? Something will change. I can guarantee it. Sooner or later, Nicole will tire of what you're doing and end your marriage for you. Before she does that, though, I'd suggest that you answer this question, "Is love a choice?"<P>I personally believe that it is. We might fall in love with someone without explicitly choosing to do so, but we can doubtlessly end a relationship of our own volition. People have done it for centuries. Given that we know that, what next?<P>Arik, why not take charge of your life? Why not sit down and list the pros and cons associated with rebuilding your marriage, versus divorcing and marrying Chrissie? The folks here in MB have done the calculus for you: rebuilding your marriage is in your best interests, both emotionally and financially. The odds of a subsequent marriage to Chrissie actually succeeding over the long run are pretty low. From where we sit, this is a no brainer of a decision. Truthfully, I think you've already done the calculus yourself and you came to the same conclusion.<P>The problem is that you want to sit on the fence, and you refuse to recommit to the marriage unless there is some guaranteed outcome. Of course, there are no guarantees in life (excepting death and taxes), so your demands are really nothing but a stalling tactic. Simply put, you're intentionally turning this into some bastardized prisoner's dilemma, to avoid having to make a decision at all.<P>But the longer you do so, the more likely Nicole is to make the decision to divorce for you, despite her obvious love for you right now. You are, quite clearly, squandering Nicole's love for a relationship with very little upside potential. And all the chest-thumping in the world won't change that.<P>The clock is ticking, Arik. Someone in this love triangle is going to make a decision. Will it be you?<P>Bystander

To all of those who have my respect- I truly thank you for being patient with a guy who's pretty stubborn and very closed minded. I have never said that I wasn't. I can be very opinionated, and do tend to respond quickly to those things that bother me.<P>To those of you who don't-<BR>Maybe I remind you of what you once were. Maybe I remind you of what you are hiding on the inside. Maybe I force you to see that you aren't being honest with yourself and it makes you sick to think that you despise me as much as yourself?<P>Either way...I have really and truly this time decided that this site is no place for me. I may lurk occasionally to see how my friends are doing, but I won't be posting (never say never). This site is great in most aspects, but I hate people that are "holier than thou". I have very little patience as it is and I don't need to waste what little I have, here. If it gives you some sort of "gratification" to bash me...then by all means. I am not accountable to you, nor am I accountable to anyone. This may indeed be my downfall one day. As for the lame statement about my entering McDonalds with something other than Big Macs on my mind...well, let's just say that I am a little more stable than that( I said a little).<BR>I bid you all farewell, and I hope you find peace within your lives and marriages.<BR>Nicole, I'm sure will be posting and reading as usual.<P>Arik

Unfortunately there are always some who when you hold the mirror of truth up to them recoil and run as if they were a vampire.<P>I was writing this whole response about how I was so harsh with Arik <B>because</B> his situation was so similar to mine… not despite it. But I think he knows this (I've certainly posted it to both him and Nicole enough times), yet chooses once again to ignore voices that have been down the path and come out the other side happy and fulfilled. I think (hope!) deleting his thought will be something he one day regrets, as he looks back on this time of his life in horror… looks back from a safe, <B>happy</B> marriage to Nicole.<P>Gotta get that chip on your shoulder down to a size manageable by a wrecking ball, first…<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Arik,<P>The 'lame statement' comes from one who has counseled and prayed with many a troubled soul. I recognize things in you, Arik that set off all kinds of alarm bells in my lay counselors head...I've seen people go from ranting to harming others and it concerns me, that's all.<P>Not trying to inflame, trying to exhort.<BR>O.K. the fence thing was somewhat inflammatory, but surely you see that your whining po's those who are REALLY working at their marriages?<P>I think this is lost on you, so I'll just light my candle and pray that the darkness departs from your heart soon.<P>May God be gracious to your family...<P>liz\pearl<P>------------------<P>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<P><BR>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited February 23, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited February 23, 2000).]