I’ve been reading posts and thinking. I wonder why we all keep praying for each other? Does it really do any good? <P>We each have been given the freedom of choice from God. All the prayers in the world will not change the freedom of choice we have. So why do we pray for our spouses? What are we hoping to gain from the prayer?<P>I hope I’m not sounding as morose as I feel. It’s hard for me to have any faith in prayer. Most of you know my story.<P>My H met OW at church and uses church activities to maintain contact with her. He admitted to me that he uses the church to avoid being with family. He admitted that he uses the church to spend time with OW. If OW wasn’t there, I don’t think he would be there either. He would just find another way to be with her.<P>He freely admits these things because he sees nothing wrong in his actions.<P>I prayed for years and years. I know God is real. I feel like God has turned his back and doesn't do anything in our modern world.<P>We can pray for Him to give US help, (understanding, faith, strength, etc.) But I think it’s useless to pray for Him to help our spouse, or intervene in any way<P>Am I wrong in thinking this way? <P>If you know of any verses that prove me wrong then please post them here.<P>I have quit praying for H because of this way I feel about freedom of choice. <P>I think it’s disgusting the way H is using the church for his personal enjoyment. <P>H’s actions has had a destructive influence on my life in so many ways. I quit going to church where I taught Sunday School class, Bible School, and was very active. I feel resentment when I drive past a church building (any church, not just the one where H meets with OW). I don’t think I’ll ever be able to set in a pew without the flood of pain flowing thru me. I know this is a irrational reaction, but I can’t control the way I react to the feelings inside. <P>This isn’t something new, I’ve been this way for the past 7 years. Maybe some day I’ll get over it, but for today... Church is the last place I want to be. <P>Sorry if this is erratic, I'm depressed tonight. <P>Keo

Keosha,<BR>Here are a few that I found:<BR>I Samuel 7:5<BR>I Samuel 12:23<BR>Matthew 5:44<BR>James 16<BR>James 5:15<P>Hope this helps you find what you are looking for.<P>Prayers,<BR>Mitzi

Keosha,<P>Please don't feel that way about church. Many people go to church for all the wrong reasons, it has nothing to do with their personal relationship with God. My ex was a Sunday School teacher, youth leader, and had been nominated for a deacon. He fell away from God, it is as simple as that. Just because your H is attending church doesn't mean his heart is right. Right now, the most powerful thing you can do for him is pray. God does give us freedom of choice, but he also uses influence and consequence and conscience in our lives to lead us the right way. Look on the prayer forum for more info.<BR>Don't give up on God!<P>Ad

Keo,<BR>I also want to say, I think we all pray to protect our sanity. If it wasn't for prayer I think I would have lost my battle with life in December. I was seriously suicidal and because of prayer, my kids, and this forum, I'm still here. Not in the greatest shape, but still here.<P>And, I don't know about you, but it makes me feel good to pray for others. I can't actually be with anyone that posts here in person, so the best I can do is pray that they find peace and comfort. It does help to know that complete strangers pray for each other.<P>Hang in there. (((((HUGS)))))<P>Mitzi

Keosha,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I prayed for years and years. I know God is real. I feel like God has turned his back and doesn't do anything in our modern world.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is easy to feel this way when one has suffered the pain that so many of us here has. I know that there has been times myself when I have cried out "God where are you." But Keosha, He has never left our side. This very night he wants to hold you safely in his arms. Just let him. My relationship with God has suffered as well throughout the past two years. I focused so much on what I was going through and what H was doing that I neglected my first love, my Lord and Savior. Oh how easy it was for me to praise Him and give Him glory when all was well, but when the tough got going, though I neglected Him, He not once left my side. In fact he has carried me through. Without God, I am nothing. Keosha do not lose your faith in the most high. It's evident that you love God. Your heart is just aching right now. So many people turn their hearts away from God when he has been faithful. You have been betrayed by H, yes it hurts. But remember how many that God has been betrayed by. God wants to heal your broken heart. I truly believe that marriage is a unit that God treasures. And that which God treasures the Devil seeks out to destroy. SO by all means, get MAD!! But get mad at the Devil. I love ya' and I will continue to pray that God's love will rain on you tonight!!<P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

Keosha,<P>Please don't lose faith in the power of prayer. It really does work. Look at St. Monica who prayed day in and day out for her son St. Augustin to come to know the Lord. He was a bad guy!!! And he became a saint, all based on his mothers constant prayer. Don't give up!!!<P>In Luke 6:27-28 the Lord says "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, PRAY for those who mistreat you.<P>And then in James 5:15-16 he says: And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well, the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and PRAY FOR EACH OTHER so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective!!!!<P>Give up on mankind if you must, but never give up on our Creator, I beg of you. I have let my prayer life and spiritual life suffer so much over the last 10 months and I can visualize Satan laughing and singing "another one bites the dust" as he tries to claim me in victory but I found this website and although I don't really belong (I am an OW trying desperately to give up a MM who doesn't want to be given up!!!) I have found comfort here knowing that these people...the very sort of people I have hurt....are lifting me in prayer and encouraging me. If that doesn't prove the power of prayer, nothing does in my book! <P>God Bless you and please hang in there!!!<P>In Him, with you......Judy

Keosha,<P>I was never much of a prayer till this happened to me. I never had much use for the church although I went every week with my then w. She was a borne again Christian and was disappointed in me that I was the spiritual head of the house. Now she doesn't even go to church. <P>What I mean is that going to church doesn't necessarily mean anything. My x had all this book learning about the Lord, but she didn't have it in her heart or she never would have been searching for happiness all her life. It is what is inside of you, not what is inside the church.<P>Also remember that God answers in his time, not ours. We don't know his will, and we often think he will answer our prayers with want we want. <P>Also for us to grow, we must endure stress. Our minister gave a sermon about growth and gave a story about the biosphere. That was the experiment where they created an artificial with everything but wind. They found out that the trees ended up falling over because they had no wind to cause them stress which serves to strengthen them, just as stress strengthens us.<P>As for praying for your H, I would think that you ask the Lord to look out for him and protect him and that he open his eyes. IMHO you should not ask the Lord that he return to you because God will not overturn the free will he gave us.<P>I still pray for my x(occasionally), that the Lord look out for her because I fear that she will do something drastic when she does return to her senses and understands what she has done to her and her children's lives.<P>I'm sure others who are more knowledgeable about the Lord and prayer will be able to give you better input.<P>Stay strong in the Lord for he is there for us.<P>God Bless<BR><P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

Keosha,<P>I have to aagree with RWD, especially the part about God answers in his own time not ours. Also My prayers are for the strength to handle what we are going through. My prayers for my H are for him to dealwith his guilt and to find his faith. Yes we all have choices and I know that my H has turned his back on everything he has believed in. He is now taking OW to church with him. But for him going to church is a habit. I doubt that he has found true peace there. <P>The other thing we have to realize is that God answers all prayer, sometimes it isn't the answer we want. You are right about the choice and unless our spouse makes the right choice God can't really do anything for them. But again we can pray for the strength to get throught this and that is what we all need.<BR><P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Hey Keo, we have to stop meeting this way. So long as one of us is having a good day the other is entitled to have a bad one <P>I understand what you are saying...my H comes from a very religious background. We are not of the same faith, but he seems to have lost his faith. I on the other hand have found myself really embracing my religion. I believe that we are all put on this earth to learn about something that we apparently didn't learn in the past. (I hope I am not spooking you) for me I must learn patience. I am afraid to say that I lack patience...I am a fix it now person...don't lose faith. My mother always told me (usually around Christmas) <BR>"If you don't believe you won't receive" I truly believe this...and not just for Santa...I believe that your H must truly believe and ask for guidance, strength, clarity whatever it is that he needs. And you can't ask for him. I have not asked lately for my H. Only myself, and despite my bad day yesterday I do feel stronger and clarity coming to mind. <BR>Don't lose faith, it's OK to not want to be affiliated with the church you once went to, but don't lose your faith that there is something for you to learn here and to ask for that guidance and strength to do what you have to do, be that staying, leaving, or whatever makes you happy. But to pray for someone who wouldn't accept the sign or the guidance, may be more frustrating to you. <P>My two cents...I hope it helps...keep the faith...(isn't that a Billy Joel song?)<P>Ciao<BR>Chris

We continue to pray because Faith in God is what will carry us through these trials. I'm so sorry you're feeling so bad, and hope that you'll find encouragement in the verses Mitzi referenced. <P>In Hebrews 11:1 God's word says "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". So even though we don't see outward results of our prayers, God hears those prayers and is at work in their lives. If you have a chance, please read through some of the praise reports on the Women's Bible Study for evidence of answered prayers. It's God's timetable, not ours. I know how it feels to want so badly for results to happen and feel like God isn't hearing my prayers. I have been praying for my H off and on for 17 years. I began to see what God was doing when I began to understand how He works. Since I've been praying for God to work in me, and to change ME, I've seen more outward appearances of answered prayer. We must have Faith in order for Prayers to be heard and answered. <P>And yes, some people allow Satan to work in them to snare souls from the church. The evil one comes to destroy and devour, and he wants to devour Jesus's followers. The OW is being a pawn of Satan. Proverbs 6:24 - 35 are good verses to read about the consequences of adultery. <P>I guess what I gain in praying for my unbelieving husband is greater faith, and peace in my heart knowing that God is in control. God bless you Keosha, you're in my prayers. <P>MTAW<BR>Please don't give up on God or prayer. He will comfort you and give you strength to get through this.

<BR>Mitzi Thanks for the verses, I will read them today. Thanks for the (((((HUGS))))) It’s odd how those little characters from the keyboard can make a person feel better.<P>Ad, <BR>I know there are lots of hypocrites in church. There are good Christians there too. Right now I’m not sure which category I would fall into. Somewhere in my confused thoughts I think that if God was really in that church He wouldn’t allow this to continue. Then I think about the free will and I get more confused. <P>jamie-lee, <BR>I know your right. God sanctioned our marriage, not H’s relationship with OW. These problems didn’t start until he joined the church. I guess that’s why I hold the church responsible. <P>azhootie, <BR>I don’t think I’m losing faith in all prayer, only prayer for H. I know we should pray for our enemies but I can’t do that right now. I have been following your story. I pray for you because I know you are receptive to the prayers. O yes you do belong here at this web site. Reading your story has gave me much hope and encouragement. There are some similarities. When OW found herself another man and tried to turn away from my H, he wouldn’t let her go. That doubles the pain. It was easier to live with it when I could think that H was succumbing to her, but now I must admit that H is actively pursuing OW.<P>RWD, <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> “It is what is inside of you, not what is inside the church”<BR> “going to church doesn't necessarily mean anything” </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yes, that’s how I feel, I just couldn’t find those words. The sermon about the biosphere makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks, I needed to hear that<P>SDS, thank you.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> “we can pray for the strength to get through this”.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sometimes I think I’m being such a baby about this, after all it’s “only” a EA. It could be so much worse. <P>Chris, <BR>Your right! I can think of many other places I’d rather meet a friend. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> I believe that we are all put on this earth to learn about something that we apparently didn't learn in the past </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, your not spooking me. I kind of feel that way too. I have been afraid to pray for patience because I’m afraid of what I might have to go thru to learn. (I’m going thru hell, and learning patience even tho I didn’t ask to). <P> Some days I feel so confident that I’ve really got it together and everything will be fine. Then suddenly I feel totally “wacked out” like the world is coming to an end. There must be something I need to learn, but I haven’t figured out what it is. I hope I figure it out soon before I go off the “deep end” and do something that will do permanent damage to myself or someone else.<P>MTAW, <BR>WOW 17 years?!?!? Now I do feel like a quitter (I mean that in a comical way). I thought I was setting some kind of record with 7 years. <P>I just can’t see why God is allowing this to happen, and especially why He allows it to start in CHURCH. It’s kind of like a advertizement to “stay away from church because it’ll destroy your life”. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> We must have Faith in order for Prayers to be heard and answered. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe I don’t have enough faith or the right faith. I feel like God just turns His back and doesn’t listen to my prayers.<P><BR>Thank You everyone. It really helps to get your opinions and advice.<P>Keo<BR>This roller coaster ride is for the birds! I get dizzy to easy. <BR>

Keosha,<P>First I would suggest to get the Power of a praying wife by Stormie O'Martin. There is a great prayer in the beggining of the book about not wanting to pray for him and for God to help you get a clean heart before you do. That prayer helped me a lot of times. <P>I do believe prayer works. Pray a lot. My H left New Years Eve and was living between his moms and OW's. He would not talk and kept running from me. Well, I bought the book and started praying. I know he has free will (and a whole lot of it at that) I just prayed for God to show him the truth and to give me the strength to accept whatever his decesion would be. He is not a believer in any way. But I do believe my prayer helped. He came home on the 1st of Feb after a 2 day prayer fest of my wonderful marriage builder friends, family and myself. I really never thought he would come home. So now he is here. And I thank God daily. <P>I really believe that all the bad things that happen are either Satan or that we need to learn something. I do not beleive that God does things just to hurt us.<P>Hang in there and try the book...it might help. Especially if he is a believer.<P>Ok...long and winded and now I am done...<P>Miracles can really happen <P>Stac<P>------------------<BR>Jaded Heart<BR>____________<P> <A HREF="http://journeys.webprovider.com" TARGET=_blank>http://reflect.to/journeys</A> <P> <P>

Jadedheart is right about the book, Power of a Praying Wife. I go back to the first chapter, His Wife, and pray that prayer over and over. The changes God has made in me, as well as the ones in my husband, are just awe inspiring. I cannot thank God enough for leading me to this website, and to buying the book. I recently bought the POPW study guide and am starting over reading it and doing the study guide. <P>My husband is not a Christian. He will tell you if you ask him that he believes there is a God, but that's it. Since I've been praying along with the study group, my H actually went to church with me twice, first time inside a church since our son was baptized almost 15 years ago! He has always been against going to church, says its a waste of his day off. His heart has softened, I can see a softer look in his eyes when I look at him. He has no idea I pray for him day and night. In fact, all he would know about my faith in God is that I go to church every week, he sees me read the bible sometimes in the evenings, knows I don't swear or do illegal things. I don't preach at him, don't even discuss it with him. He just gets prayed for without ceasing, and doesn't even realize how the changes in him came about! PTL for answered prayer!<P>Yes, he still drinks. He has, however, gone from drinking himself into a stupor <B>every night</B> to two or three beers in the evenings. I will be praying for him to be delivered from his addiction forever. <P>Ok, so my point is in this long story (sorry!) <B>DON'T give up on praying for your husband</B>. Believe in Him, He will take care of the rest. <P>God bless you,<P>MTAW

I just couldn't pass up on responding to this. It hits home to me on a very real and recent experience.<P>I, too have asked the same question. I have been a Christian for over 39 years, I am a minister and even have a PhD in Theology. But, I have found myself questioning God and fighting overwhelming bitterness at what seemed to be His lack of response to mine and many others' prayers for my situation.<P>I believed for restoration of my marriage for almost 4 years (married now 33+ years). Wife is Chrisitan and also minister. I had personal words from the Lord promising restoration, had visions, dreams and even prophecies that God was going to restore my marriage.<P>But after nearly 4 years of separation (early December) I just gave up and felt God released me from this marriage.<P>I felt the reason why He did this was He didn't want to see me hurt any longer.<P>It hurt and angered me to read how so many other couples got restored; even those who had divorced and gotten re-married to each other. I said, God why couldn't you do it for me?<P>Satan was screaming continually in my ear how God had failed me...didn't care and all that stuff. I got mad at God and felt He had failed me.<P>But, the thing that liberated me was a truth I had forgotten. Oh how easily we can let His Word slip through our fingers. <P>Did God promise to restore my marriage? Yes, I believe He did. Well, did He fail? No, He didn't fail but I had to learn He will never cross another person's free will (or choice).<P>I still struggled with this getting back to the theme of this thread "why pray when people have a free choice?" Again, as a student/teacher of the Bible...I have asked this question many times and have never had anyone satisfactorily answer it:<P>HOW DOES GOD CIRCUMVENT (GO AROUND)THE WILL OF MAN?<P>The best answer I have heard is that while God can not change their will...He will allow circumstances to press against them and bring things to pass (or allow them to come to pass) which will pressure them into crying 'Uncle' (I give up or give in).<P>Also, I had to come to this point...just in the last couple of months. We must never base our faith upon our experiences; but must always base our faith on the Word of God even if we never experience it.<P>In other words, I had to start confessing and praying "God, I still believe you restore marriages/families even if mine didn't get restored". The same with Physical Healing. Healing is for today because Jesus never changes...however; if we are praying for someone who has cancer and they die..even if they prayed for their healing; we must still believe God heals today even if we didn't experience it.<P>One of the oldest tricks in Satan's book is to get Christians to doubt God and give up their faith. I am ashamed to say that even as a Christian I have cursed God and turned my back on Him because I felt He failed me.<P>However, there is a verse in Hosea, chapter 13, verse 9 in which God states: "It has been to your destruction O' Israel that you have been against me, for IN ME is your help".<P>Remember, Israel is a type of the church or God's people so that verse applies to us today.<P>God is all we have! If we turn away from Him where do we go???? Believe me, I am still having to walk through some very dark and lonely nights/valleys....and I still question.<P>Just remember...it really isn't our faith; it is His Faithfulness! For the Word declares that "even if we deny him, he remains faithful and true to his word" (Timothy, I think).<P>So....I still struggle in this area; in fact the 14th of March my wife and I will be divorced. So either God lied or somehow I missed it and I know God can not lie!<P>I hope I have encouraged you or perhaps anyone else reading this response. There is a timing to His answers and for those who fear they will be 'cheated' (like me); we must hang on to Jeremiah 29:11 which states:<BR>"For I know the thoughts and plans I have for you, saith the Lord; thoughts and plans for good and not evil to give you hope in your future or final outcome" (Amplified Version).<P>Even as I write this, I am depending upon His grace (enabling power) to keep me together for I am hurting and bleeding to death inwardly (emotionally).<P>[censored] from Texas

Can't remember who said this. (I'll go look it up later), but It was incredibly inspirational. It described the process for putting the betrayers into "God's hands" and what that meant. I think it's about a week old in the recovery board. Faith is deeply personal, and so I realize that what I think may not fit into someone else's faith make-up, But, I believe God presents us with difficult scenarios as a way to test and strengthen our character. (Probably a book of Job influence) We don't understand why, and like Job we may question why, but like the footprints poem he never leaves us hanging. Now the end result may not be the one we want right now, but it will strengthen us nonetheless. I pray that he will help me to understand the path he wants me to be on, and I pray that he will see to it that my husband is happy on whatever path God has designed for him. (Of course I wish that we are on the same path, and like a child making a request for a toy, I humbly ask for that too. )

The post is "To HGBrawner" and it's over on the recovery board.

[censored],<BR>Your post is so inspiring to me! Thank you for posting this message. I have been praying for my husband to become a Christian for 17 years, hasn't happened yet. I may not see it happen in my lifetime, but I believe my H will accept Jesus as his Savior before he dies. The reason I believe this is that my husband had a terrible auto accident when he was 18, he hit a semi-truck head on. He should have been dead. He was thrown from the car, the car was completely flattened and demolished, but walked away from the accident. He had cuts and bruises, but nothing broken. The accident was my husband's fault - he was drunk. When my H told me of this (I met him when he was 23), he told me that he believed "the man upstairs" saved him. My H will tell you he believes there is a God. However, he choses to serve Satan. His heart has become so hard over the years, it really saddens me. <P>I also believe that God placed me in my H's life because I am a Christian. That I know of, besides my MIL, H has had virtually no contact with born-again Christians besides me and my immediate family. <P>God is working in his life. He hears my prayers, and I have faith that one day God will answer my most fervent prayer, to save my H's soul. <P>

Hi Keosha,<P>for me personaly, I have never lost my faith, even through this debacle.<BR>But, I felt that I couldn't talk to God.<BR>I couldn't pray anymore. I could for others, but not for me.<BR>I have no idea why.<BR>Prior to this, every night I said a prayer that thanked God for everything that I have, a wonderful H, 2 beautiful healthy happy children, a loving family and great friends. I asked Him to keep us safe and well, and to look after my Nanna & Grampy, who are gone.<BR>If I'm honest, I still pray that prayer, maybe once a week. I don't even give him thanks for my beautiful children. I just can't talk to him - but I still believe, and believe with all my heart.<P>It's almost as if I am angry at Him, and behaving like a sulky child.<P>I'm not too sure what I'm trying to say here, except that my relationship with Him is a little strained at the moment.......<BR>Join the club God...........<P>But I do know that it will recover, it is starting to get better. I have never been one to blame my mistakes, or circumstances on others, and I won't start now. I take full responsibility for my life, and my choices and decisions, but God, couldn't you have given me a little break, somewhere along this very long line.......<P>Hugs to you "Granny clampitt" - sorry, I'm still laughing about your 'little' incident<P>jo