Dear friends, <P>I really need your help sorting something out.<P>Ok, let's say you are talking with your husband about a lunch he had recently with a friend of his. Let's say that he is discussing his friends relationship problems. Let's say that he tells his friend that he has "come clean" about all affairs and related behaviour. Let's say that he is being honest and discusses the conversation with you later that night after you ask a few questions about his lunch.<P>I will note that he "came clean" partially as a result of undeniable evidence.<P>In the discussion with you after his lunch, he mentions that he and his friend discussed that men are much better at being able to bury the past and move on without disclosure. He also tells you that he and his friend LAUGHED about the fact that he (husband) was so drunk one night he just started necking with a woman in a bar while he and friend were out together. They laughed about the boys covering for him while he pursued other women.<P>(This all happened a few years ago and was part of his "here's all that has happened since the first day that we got together" disclosure).<P>Is it truly possible to be able to laugh about the issues that have wedged you so far apart and still be remorseful? <P>Is it truly possible to separate them from your emotions of the hurt and pain it caused your relationship as well as the risk your actions caused? <P>I suppose I should be greatful that he was honest enough to discuss but I fear that his general attitude reflects that he is not really in the same head space as I am regarding these actions or desire to move forward. <P>He says that they were simply laughing about the incident and he was not thinking at all about anything else.<P>Please share your thoughts.<P>Cheers,<BR>Lisa

Maybe. I can envision a rueful "can you believe it? sort of laugh. <BR>

I can laugh about what a fool I have been. There have been occasions when this enraged my husband, he thought I was laughing at him. No way!! I just stood back and looked at my own foolishness.

Kam and Hanora,<P>Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Unfortunatly, the laughter in this case has no rue nor arose from the thoughts of what a fool he had been at the time. It was laughter about how drunk he was and how funny it was that he could just start necking in the middle of a bar with a stranger. It was laughter about boys being boys covering for one of their own.<P>I am the one wondering if I should be laughing at what a fool I have been.....<P>Is it really possible to be able to heal your relationship if you find this stuff funny? Stuff that you did that was thoughtless and hurtful and caused grief for someone you supposedly care for?<P>Also troubling are his comments about women and men being different conflict with his new understanding about the importance of honesty. He thinks that men are able to put this kind of stuff behind them and move on without disclosure (unless caught) but says he agrees with the Harley ideas and reasons behind honesty??????<P>UGGGGGGGGGGH!<p>[This message has been edited by LisaM (edited February 22, 2000).]

Lisa, I'm no expert, but I think men are able to compartmentalize their lives.<P>I'll bet your H sees absolutely no inconsistency in this.<P>Also, I think some of it is "male bonding" stuff. For some reason, men think it's "macho" to complain about being tied into marriage, even if they're happy in their marriages. I work with a bunch of married guys, and I don't think a one of them has cheated. But every day at lunch, they're always b*tching about their wives, and how oppressed they are.<P>In American culture (and I don't know if you're in the US), men receive mixed messages. On the one hand, "studs" are glorified -- men like Hugh Hefner, who are free, not tied to a single woman, bed down as many women as they can. Yet most men do get married. And married men live longer and are healthier than single men. I think many men have a conflict in dealing with such mixed messages.<P>My own opinion is that b*tching about your wife because you think it makes you more of a man is a pretty immature attitude, but it's not uncommon.<P>I wouldn't sweat it. Use his treatment of YOU as a guide.

D&C,<BR>If I were to use his overall treatment of me as a guide, I would be posting on a "how to ditch and run as fast as you can forum" !<P>There was absolutely no *****ing about wives, on the contrary, just 2 guys sharing a laugh about getting drunk and getting laid by someone other than the person they profess to care for. <P>What I am unsure of is my interpretation of their conversation. I don't like the conclusions that I am arriving to on my own so far. To all those who have betrayed or been betrayed, what do you think about a betrayer laughing with a buddy about his indescretions? Not about "how stupid could I have been" but laughing about the incident as one that is funny? At laughing about the boys "covering off" for the betrayer and contributing to the lies? Is it possible to feel remorse and still laugh? To be honest about wanting to move forward and help undo the harm done and laugh about the very things that caused the harm?<P>Am I being oversensitive?<P>Thanks,<BR>Lisa

Well, maybe that's what's bothering you.<P>Even if your H is not b*tching about you, things like "remorse" are considered "unmasculine" in contexts like the one you describe. Certainly your H's friends are immature a**holes; is he?