After going along so well with Plan A, I completely blew it yesterday. My wife put on a CD that had been introduced to us through the OM. I got to thinking about the last time she had put that CD on and it was on a day in which she knew that she would see him at work (just like yesterday). On that previous time, I was talking to her and she just looked at me with sort of dead eyes and turned up the volume on the stereo so she could not hear me.<P>Yesterday, I decided that I did not want to hear this CD, so I put on a personal stereo with headphones and was listening to something else. She asked what was wrong, and at first I told her nothing was wrong. She got mad at that, calling me a liar and yelling at me. I finally told her that I did not want to hear the CD and told her why. She became even more upset with me, yelling and screaming.<P>She was mad for me not telling her immediately what was wrong, as I have told her that complete open honesty is the way to go (even though she rarely shares her feelings with me). She was also mad for me feeling the way I did.<P>Today, she told me that she just wished that I would make her leave, or that I would go get a divorce. I told her that I would do neither. I told her that I believe that our relationship can be better, stronger and more loving than it has ever been. <P>She told me that in the last week or so she thought that we were becoming close, but yesterday completely negated everything. She also said that she was in a worse place now than she was before disclosure. She said that she would not open herself up to that feeling of closeness again. <P>She now does not want me to be nice to her, does not want me to tell her I love her, does not want me to be kind or loving to her.<P>I really don't know what to do at this point. I feel that I have thrown the last two months down the drain. Does anyone have any advice or encouragement?

Sounds to me like she was deliberately trying to pick a fight. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She asked what was wrong, and at first I told her nothing was wrong. She got mad at that, calling me a liar and yelling at me. I finally told her that I did not want to hear the CD and told her why. She became even more upset with me, yelling and screaming.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'd guess she feels guilty and conflicted. She doesn't want to leave and be the bad guy, so wouldn't it be great if she can provoke you to make her leave...then its not her fault bcs you threw her out!!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> She told me that in the last week or so she thought that we were becoming close, but yesterday completely negated everything. ... She said that she would not open herself up to that feeling of closeness again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This seems to be a more open version of the "dance" my H goes thru. We have a time of getting closer, then as soon as he starts to seem a little bit "in-love" with me, he pulls back (at least he doesn't try to pick fights). But I believe he does not want to open himself up to feeling close to me, as he still is in withdrawal for the OW. <P>I have little advice, just wanted to offer my interpretation of what your W is doing. I think you are on the right track...keep at that Plan A. The good news is it must be having some effect, or it wouldn't be making her feel so torn!<BR>Hang in there--<BR>Kathi

kam6318 Thanks for the reply. Right now I am wondering if all of this pain is worth it. She is really starting to convince me that maybe we should move on our separate ways in our lives. <P>She told me last night that she did not think that she could live up to my "high standards". When I asked her what she meant, she said "Being completely open and honest with one another".<P>I am at work right now and am so depressed, I can think of nothing else but my marriage. I really don't know how some of you do it for so long.

<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> She now does not want me to be nice to her, does not want me to tell her I love her, does not want me to be kind or loving to her.<P>I really don't know what to do at this point. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Usually a womans most important EN is communication. Try to get her to talking to you. Talk about anything as long as she is talking.<P>A man and woman think so differently. <P> When a man makes a statement it's because he has thought it thru and come to a conclusion.<P>When a woman makes a statement it's because she's talking it thru to find a conclusion. <P>Don't take anything she says as a final fact. She has to talk thru all the ideas until she finds the right one to choose.<P>If you can get her talking and keep her talking it will help her more than you know.<P>Remember, don’t put to much importance on what she is saying. You want to get her to talk, talk, talk, as much as possible. Don’t get upset if she says she wants to leave, it doesn’t necessarily mean she really wants to, it only means she’s thinking of that possibility along with many other possibilities. She will talk about many possibilities before she chooses one to act on. Even after choosing one to act on, she may change her mind several times.<P>I know this is confusing to a man, but this is the method a woman uses to work thru a problem.<P><BR>Keo<P>This roller coaster ride is for the birds! I get dizzy to easy.<p>[This message has been edited by Keosha (edited February 22, 2000).]

Keosha - Thank you. I have guessed through listening to her that communication is one big thing with her and was a big reason for her EA.<P>I keep thinking about something she has said on more than one occasion. She has told me several times that she thinks that I am trying to "dupe" her or trick her into thinking that I love her so that I can hurt her. Who in their right mind would go through all of this pain just so you could hurt someone else? It disturbs me that she would even be able to conceive of something like this.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> Who in their right mind would go through all of this pain just so you could hurt someone else? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This scares me for 2 reasons<P>1 - are you acting like something is wrong with her thinking? If you give her the impression that you don't value her thinking, it might block her ability to open up to talk to you. <P>2 - she might be a highly emotional person (like me). I read things into my H actions and words that he never thinks of. <P>She must feel safe to talk with you. If you have the idea that she's wrong, and you commute this feeling to her, it might shut her down and cause her to search for someone else to communicate with.<P>It doesn’t matter if you are or aren’t purposely hurting her. In her mind you are hurting her and that’s what you have to deal with. Are you saying things that she is misinterpreting? Is she reading more into your actions than you see? <P>This communication between a man and woman is like 2 people from different countries trying to talk to each other. Imagine if you were speaking English and she can only speak French. You would try to figure out what the other one is saying by picking out words that sound vaguely familiar and probably study body language. What is she seeing in your body language? What key words is she hearing? <P>I don’t know if any of what I’m saying here will make any sense to you. It’s the communication problem working... <P>Men are more logical and women are more emotional.<P>BTW once you get her to talking, let her talk, don’t interrupt, listen so you can answer questions, and when she starts running out of words ask her a question to get her talking more. It will help you if you look at her lips, ears, nose, glancing at her eyes often. This is for your benefit, I know it’s very hard for a man to set and listen to a woman talk, so hopefully these hints will make it easier for you to stay in the conversation.<P>Good luck, let me know if any of this makes sense to you and if it helps.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Keo<P>This roller coaster ride is for the birds! I get dizzy to easy.<p>[This message has been edited by Keosha (edited February 22, 2000).]

Thank you again, Keosha. Funny you should mention listening and not interrupting. Last night, I wrote a letter to her explaining how sorry I was for my temporary insanity and thanking her for her help and patience while I am on my "road of change" (I am seeking therapy for controlling behavior). Also included with the letter was a "Listening Coupon". This coupon can be redeemed indefinitely and entitles the bearer to uninterrupted conversation without fear of judgement or retribution. <P>When she read the letter and coupon, she just put them down without saying a word. I asked her if something was wrong and she asked why? I responded that she had said nothing about the letter and coupon. Her response was, "Did you write it to get a response or did you write it because you wanted to"? I wrote it because I wanted to, but I thought it was kind of rude to not even mention it at all. <P>The same thing happened this morning when I wrote her a note of encouragement, hoping that she has a better day today. I spoke with her on the phone this morning and asked if she saw the note. Her response was "Yes, why? Were you hoping for a reaction to it?" I think that she is really angry with me right now, but she says that she has gone to a place in her mind which shuts out all pain. She is pretty much closed off from me and our children right now. <P>I guess I will keep on Plan Aing and will take your advice regarding communication and I will not give her the impression that her thinking is wrong. <P>Thank you very much.

These are the same words I used when I was in withdrawal. It sounds like she’s there too. <P>If she’s feeling the way I felt then she’s saying these things as self protection from further pain of rejection. (Not that you actually rejected her, but in her mind that’s what controlling behavior translates to). <P>Keep talking to her, complimenting her, and above all respecting her. It’s very hard to do these things when she doesn’t respond. <P>Don’t expect her to acknowledge the nice things you do. When you require acknowledgment it gives the impression that you expect “payment” for being nice. You have to provide unconditional love. You don’t want her to think you’re only being nice to make her be nice back to you.<P>If you’ve been controlling in the past it will probably take some time for her to believe you’ve honestly changed and that your not trying to “set her up” in a trap so you can control her again. <P>I hope I’m not sounding condescending here. I don’t mean to. I’m not very good at translating my thoughts into words.<P><P>------------------<BR>Keo<P>This roller coaster ride is for the birds! :eek: I get dizzy to easy.

Scanman,<P>Two things that bother me about the conversation you had with your wife.<P>1. "She was mad at you for felling the way you do." I am sorry, but that make sno sense. People have feelngs, and people get hurt for different reasons. She can made at you all she wants, that can not doscount your fellings.<P>2. She was mad becasue you did not tell her right away. OK, maybe you should have said you rather talk about it later. But... sometimes it is wise to not dicuss things untill you are ready.<P>She seems very very angry.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She has told me several times that she thinks that I am trying to "dupe" her or trick her into thinking that I love her so that I can hurt her. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've read other posts that included the betrayer thinking this way...waiting for the spouse to exact revenge... I think it is probably driven by feelings of guilt and unworthiness.