SHA:<P>Whether or not to confront the OM:<P>Pros: None<BR>Cons: Serious lovebuster.<P>There's nothing you can do in confronting the OM that will build your wife's love for YOU. Not a damn thing. You can scare him, but it won't be enough. You could perhaps appeal to his "moral" side that he must end the affair. What are you left with?---a wife who resents you more. You cannot afford this withdrawal in your wife's lovebank.<P>Whether or not to tell OM's wife:<P>Pros:<BR>1. Has the potential to "out" the affair more thoroughly, injecting reality to the situation.<BR>2. Morally and ethically, it feels "right" to let the wife know what's going on.<P>Cons:<BR>1. Serious lovebuster.<BR>2. OM's wife may not want to know<BR>3. Could precipate a divorce with OM's marriage, making him even more "available"<P>SHA: your job in Plan A above all is to consistently demonstrate new marital behavior that makes your wife feel hopeful of the marriage. You've been successful so far, even though it may not have had the desired short-term result. What lovebusters were you guilty of before you embarked on this journey??? If you attempt to "fight" for your wife using these tactics, will it remind her of the "old SHA"? The one she doesn't like so much?<P>How will taking either of these two actions help your wife love you more??? They won't. How will taking these actions help you in your fight for the marriage?? There aren't a lot of pros there. It's a high-risk, low reward strategy. <P>I want you to discuss this with Steve because he's the expert on this. But if I were you, I wouldn't go down this route. The only real gain is that you "out the affair".<P>And you can do that with a Plan B separation. You have the email evidence, you can write a Plan B letter, and you can separate. It's very hard, and you should be prepared for the consequences. And I don't think you've got your preparations in place yet (you need to squirrel that money away, you need to find a place to live, you need an overall game plan---again, Steve was instrumental in getting me set up for this). A separation makes the affair real, and it will be your best way of injecting "reality" with a minimum of lovebusters. You won't involve other parties. It's just you, telling your wife that you love her, but while the affair is continuing, you cannot continue to live with her. Plain and simple.<P>Remember that a separation is a last-resort effort. It may be necessary in your case. But I don't think you should try it until you really can't hold out any longer (I think that you're close, tho).<P>

<B>K</B><P>First of all, thank you for starting a new thread. I didn't want this to get lost in the other one. <P>You certainly have outlined the Pros and Cons, but I have to question a couple of them.<P>Confronting the OM:<BR>-------------------<BR>Pros:<BR>1. The OM would <B>know</B> that there is a husband who goes with the wife he's messing with. I think he may not fully understand that. <BR>2. I would feel a whole bunch better "standing up" for my gal. Don't most women want that? I haven't gotten to where I am in the company I work for by not standing up to people. BTW, when I was dating my wife, she had an old boy friend that kept hanging on to her and this guy ran up to me one night while I was sitting on her porch and he ripped into about how much he was going to kick my backside. I stood up (literally) and after he saw I was about 6 inches taller than him and much stronger he backed off and was never heard from again. I suppose I may not be viewed as her guy certainly not her one and only, so I can see how that may not work well.<P>In regards to the Cons, OK I understand this is a love buster and a big one at that. <P><BR>Telling OM's wife<BR>-------------------<BR>How can you say OM's wife may not want to know? Wouldn't anyone want to know this? She may think her marriage is just fine when in reality it isn't. I don't even know if the OM has been doing this kind of behavior for quite some time. What if I told her anonymously as someone else suggested? Then it wouldn't really be a love buster for me - would it?<P>So, is your recomendation that I just let this go and keep doing what I'm doing? <P>K, you can not imagine how much I admire you and your help. You've been there for me from the start. You were one of the first people to post to me way back when I first found this site. I want to do what is right. I want my marriage more than anything. And I want my wife to give up this OM and see what I see about their whole relationship. I know you have gone through much more than I have and the wisdom of your posts are evident. If it isn't asking too much, can you respond once more to my questions here?<P>Thank you K. <P>SHA

SHA:<P>Your pros on confronting the OM are misplaced. You don't think he doesn't know that your wife is married??? Pleeeassseeee... That one is out the window.<P>I knew that you'd counter with #2. Most women who are in love want the man their in love with to fight for them. The point is that she's in "romantic love" with the OM right now. It's HIM that she'd like to see fighting for her. So in a confrontation, the only thing you can pray to achieve is a draw. He goes away like a coward, and she thinks to herself "wow, he must not have cared...". But she'll also be extremely pissed at you for messing with him.<P>There are cases where "fighting for your man/woman" will work. It's usually in the short-term affairs with little emotional attachment. This ain't on of them, my friend.<P>On telling the OM's wife. I have the same "issue" that you have, in that I feel it's a moral perogative to tell. But it's a secondary issue---your primary focus is the marriage, and I was unwilling to risk the "lovebuster" to let the OM's wife know (but they were divorcing anyway, so the situation was different). And it's not inconceivable that should you inform the OM's wife, she might kill herself. Or her husband. Or your wife. It doesn't happen often, but it's not outside the realm of possibilities.<P>My suggestion to you is to talk with Steve (unless this local person is really good). I would let this ride---the only other suggestion I would have is that you confront your wife directly, and then attempt to use the Policy of Joint Agreement to let her know that you feel that you must tell the OM's wife. And should she balk, you would tell her that you don't approve of the contact, that you would request that she sever all contact with him, and that she start marriage counseling with you (as per SAA's guidelines). She'll probably refuse, but at least she will know that you're aware (and you will have handled that confrontation without lovebusters, of course... ). But after that, I'd probably give yourself a month or two before you institute plan B. Especially if you don't see progress in that intervening time.<P>Again (a broken record here), I'd prefer that you consult with Steve Harley before you take my advice verbatim. He's seen many more cases, and he may have a different perspective for your situation than I have.

SHA,<BR>I so sorry to hear about your w's relapse. It probably seems more painful than the first time you found out.<P>Get your self some anti-deps. I was doing the same things to my kids and they even told their mother I was scaring them. I've been on anti-deps for a week and my patience with the kids has returned. My stbx is another problem.<P>I guess I have to agree with K. Both my counselor and a minister I talked to both told me to leave om's w out of it. In my case, I had already decided to proceed with the divorce. So they told me to focus on myself, nothing I could do would affect them anyhow . They also told me his w probably did know as he has had affairs before and always returned home. It also could be an open marriage. So telling her would really have no bearing.<P>I feel for you man, I truly know what you are going thru..<P>Turn it all over to the Lord !!!<BR>May God Bless you.

I disagree with K. I talked to both Steve Harley and his dad, Willard. They both said go to OM's wife. By doing that it makes the whole thing very ugly to both of them. They said both of them live in a make believe world and that they need to break out of this world.<P>You have to ask yourself how much you can take? After a year have things changed and gotten better? Are they going to change anytime soon with what you are doing? If the answer is yes then I agree with K you should hold off. But from what you have told us here things have not gotten better.<P>Both Harley's told me that until the spell is broken of the affair you can Plan A to death and it will not make a difference. Call Harley Senior on his radio show. He took my call and talked to me for 15 minutes. Gave me some great advice.

<B>K</B><BR>I'm sure the OM knows my wife is married, however he doesn't have a face to go with the head knowledge. I'm guessing that looking him in the eye might change his perspective of the whole situation. I do understand the point of it being a big love buster. You're right, I'm not her man right now. Dang, that hurts writing that. <P>In regards to the OM's wife, I'm going to pray about this. Everything in me says she has a right to know. I see your point and I will hold off until for now and pray about it.<P>My last experience in confronting my wife in regards to this guy and her relationship to him now, is that she maintains they are just friends and nothing is going on. I don't think anything is physical yet. Whenever I bring it up, I'm viewed as controling and manipulative. "Why can't I be friends with another guy!!!" she says. Confrontation without love busters - how do you do that? <P>Part of me hopes it does turn physical again because that would be it for me and she knows it. Another part of me wants to kick this guy's [censored] with a swift size 11 boot right between his legs. Most of me however, wants my marriage back. My wife also refuses to go to counseling - she sees no need to go. <P>Thank you K, you have given much to think about. I'm starting to think Plan B is a couple of months away too. Before I take that step, I will call Steve regardless of what my local counselor says. That will be a huge step for me and I can only imagine what it will do to my kids.<P><B>RWD</B><BR>Thanks RWD. Actually, it's not as painful as the first time. Part of me expected this outcome. It seems everything in my life is done the hard way. <P>I have an appt with my doc to get anti-deps but I'm not so sure I want to take them. I feel like the pain from this keeps me focused. I fear anti-deps will make me think everything is OK and I don't want to feel OK while this is happening. <P>I doubt the OM's wife knows about this. From his email's, he almost seems to revel in what he thinks is the secrecy of all this. Little does he know I have read every message he has sent to my wife. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Turn it all over to the Lord !!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think this sums it up for me. I haven't fully done this. I have tried to manipulate the situation in the past to my advantage. I have to let the Lord have control now.<P>Thank you RWD.<P><B>Zip</B><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You have to ask yourself how much you can take?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't know. I'm starting to question this myself.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>After a year have things changed and gotten better?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I can say that 1 year ago, my wife loathed me. The emotional distance was a chasm I never thought I could bridge. She would't allow me to touch her, she wouldn't talk to me, she left the house often when I came home. So, for the most part, YES things are a lot better. We talk a lot. I give her lots of touch every day. We occassionally have relations and that has improved in intensity and caring. But, I can't seem to break into her heart. She has built a fortress around it and I'm definitely on the outside. I don't know how she can act the way she does toward me and yet still yearn for this OM. <P>Thank you Zip.

I have to say I'm with the informing W crowd. As far as lovebusters go, sure it is. But look at it this way, you've been depositing for a year and only withdrawls from your "account" When you're bankrupt, why should she be rich, perhaps a minor withdrawl in lovebusting will get you out of the red by depositing some self esteem building and good feeling type deposits.<P> Do I sound like a banker?<P>Anyway, on this, I disagree with K and agree with you. But K I do have some questions for you that I'll post on another thread.<P>Chin up brother.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.<BR>

Gotta put my two cents in here. I'm for telling the OM wife. I wish so desperately that someone had the courage to tell me, instead the thing went on for over a decade. It is demoralizing to realize your life was all a lie, and believe me you look back at every memorable event and it becomes now tarnished for it wasn't what you thought. Allow the woman the dignity of facing the truth. Maybe you need to look at things from her perspective to tip the scales of "to tell or not to tell". She has a stake in all of this too and possibly doesn't even know it.<P>------------------<BR>eyes wide open<BR>

Hey zip---you don't really disagree with me. My stance all along has been to have SHA talk with Steve.<P>That's not what Steve suggested for me, but again, these are different circumstances. That's why my advice is always to talk with the pros in this case.

I guess the shallow grave in Georgia is out of the question.<P>With regards to telling the OM W, if you were getting out of your marriage, absolutely call her, give her pictures what ever you have. If you want to work on fixing and rebuilding it you have to look at the end result. Would it be really worth causing the pain and trouble?<BR><P>------------------<BR>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P><BR>

I will put off telling this OM's wife for now. Everything in the world screams at me to let her know her H is a scumbag (of course I would use more plesant words ). If he moves in for the kill once again, I don't believe I could contain myself any further. <P>I'll have to see if my wife can truely resist the temptation this time.<P>SHA

SHA,<BR>The anti-deps haven't made me feel any different about my stbx and The situation, I STILL WANT TO THROTTLE HER!!<P>I am depressed though, I haven't been sleeping well for a week, sleep 2 hrs, awake a half, sleep 2 awake a half, wake at 5. fall asleep,alrm goes off for work. Then I'm dragging all day. My appetite is off too. Had chance to go to Tony Paco's( from MASH fame) and passed it up.<P>The real good thing is that my patience has returned for the kids. I still don't have any when my stbx starts lying or justifying to me, I lose it and LB big time.<P>I hate to think what I would be like without the Anti-deps!!!!!!!<BR>