Here's some more...<P>No longer pays attention to the kids or spouse,<P>Loses interest in caring for the house and doesn't maintain it anymore,<P>Withdraws from parents because too ashamed to face them,<P>Says that they don't care about anything anymore,<P>Says that they don't believe in marriage anymore and that humans weren't created to be monogamous creatures,<P>Says that they weren't happy in the marriage and that they tried to fix it all by themselves in their head and it didn't work...Geez...wish my H would have told me that he was working on our marriage in his head...It would have been nice to be included in trying to fix our marriage. Stupid thing, though...he didn't come to me with our marital problems, but he sure didn't have a problem finding and confiding in a OW with OUR marital problems!

For me the signs were:<BR>1. Very critical of me and constantly angry.<BR>2. Restless.<BR>3. Spent a LOT of time at the computer on-line.<BR>4. Suddenly VERY private about personal stuff, like palm pilot, date book, etc.<BR>5. Separate phone card from the one with our regular phone company.<BR>6. Changed all passwords on e-mail account, or in my case, added a password to e-mail account (AOL).<BR>7. Distance from me and kids.<BR>8. Started sleeping on the couch.<BR>9. Non-existent sexlife...or when we did...wanted to do very unusual or (to me) demeaning things.<BR>10. Spent a lot of time alone. <BR>11. Locked the bedroom door while on telephone.<BR>12. Requested I get a separate checking account.<BR>13. Started paying bills late.<BR>14. Quit cutting the grass, trimming hedges, etc.<BR>15. Quit helping out around the house. <BR>16. Started new diet & exercise regimen.<BR>17. Started buying new clothes and taking a new interest in physical appearance.<BR>18. Disappeared for hours and unreachable. Refused to return pages. Left for entire weekends...said he needed space and time alone (yeah right).<P>I could go on and on...these for me were the obvious signs.<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

To Beth28, Everything that you wrote applies to my situation to a tee! I read allthe others and they didn't apply but when I got to your post, I could have written it myself. The only very unique aspect to my H's EA (maybe P/A I don't really know..) is that she was my friend and she and her man were frequent overnight guests in our home for the past four years! I am not even sure if she is as attracted to my H as he is to her. He is still referring to her as his friend even though I know better and he got so angry the other day saying "Do you honestly think our marriage would be ok if I just stopped being in contact with her?" I said of course not but the fact that he not only insists on being "friends" for life, he is remvoing himself more and more from our life.. Sorry, I know I have changed the subject a bit here but I needeed to vent!

Mine was obviously wierd:<P>I'd say, "Where were you?" and "Who were you with?" and he'd say, <P>"Oh honey, you LOVE ME. Were you worried? That's so CUTE!"<P>And then, of course, I'd find out he was with OW.<P>Cute my [censored]!

Some of these have probably already been said but for me it was:<P>1) not showing interest in my desire to go away for weekend together.<P>2) checking email account whenever I wasn't at home.<P>3) leaving for work extra early.<P>4) being EXTREMELY forgetful!!!! And saying it must be a pregnancy related thing because I'm pregnant.<P>5) being evasive when asked questions about his day, such as,what did you do forlunch today?<P>6) Not wanting me to come to his office.<P>7) Not wanting to meet me for lunch when I asked, saying he'd rather go out to dinner.<P>8) not wanting to kiss me while making love...decreased sex drive...lack of affection...pulling away when I tried to get affectionate....<P>I think that about covers it.<BR>

<BR>Kat,<P>The amnesia about good times in a marriage happens in deteriorating marriages, regardless of infidelity. This unsettling (but fascinating) phenomenon is discussed by John Gottman in his latest book. The short version is that people will rewrite their entire marital history to justify their conduct. <P>Bystander

My list -<BR>1.Pager w/ voice mail<BR>2.Leave house immediately after receiving a page - which he would deny. Guess I'm crazy!<BR>3.Errands which should have taken 10-15 mins.<BR>lasting much longer.<BR>4.Meetings which routinely (for yrs)ended at one time, now end "late"<BR>5.Hiding calendar,briefcase,wallet, etc.<BR>6.Cell phone which we don't need<BR>7.Evenings out with the "guys".Using the ate breakfast excuse to explain late (or early hours depending how you look at it), hours.<BR>8.critical, Critical, Critical<BR>9.Not happy, haven't been happy.Wish we'd never married.<BR>10.Dining at places you've never been together.<BR>11.Changes passcodes, passwords<BR>12.So many lies, trips over them<BR>13.Encouraging you to go out with your friends alone<BR>14.Distancing himself from daughter<BR>15.Change of clothes in car.<BR>16.Cologne in car<BR>17.Defensive,defensive, defensive.<BR>18.Takes off from work without telling you.<BR>19.Won't return pages.<BR>20.Says he's going one place, if you check, he either didn't go, or left way earlier.<BR>21.Picks fights so he has excuse to leave house.<BR>22.Says really cruel, hateful things<BR>23.NO affection, no sex, no nothing!<BR>24.Hates family oriented activities or holidays.<BR>25.Doesn't include you in activities you previously enjoyed together.<BR>26.Hangs up phone if you unexpectedly come home or in room.<BR>27.Needs space, time, etc...<BR>28.Going out with the "guys", but sure not dressing like it.<BR>29.New things he says he bought.This from the man who doesn't shop anywhere but hardware store.<BR>30.Now has "friends" you've never met nor spoke with on the phone.<BR>31.Deletes caller id frequently.<BR>32.Clears history on computer every time.<BR>33.Doesn't wear ring any more when going out.<BR>Probably could go on and go, because the fact of the matter is....regardless of how well wayward spouses "think" they are hiding it...their behavior changes. The above was occuring BEFORE I knew who OW was, I just knew she existed.Where there's smoke, there's fire.<P>

1) Begins wearing pager while everyone is home.<BR>2) Friends use the page number instead of calling directly.<BR>3) Beeper goes off, runs out of the house without telling H that there is bread in the oven, calls and says she will be late, and still doesn't tell me that there is bread in the oven.<BR>4) Doesn't sign emails "love -W" just "W"<BR>5) Moves you into a different bedroom<BR>6) Won't answer the question why we can never be intimate ever again.<BR>7) comes home from first day with om weeping, saying, "I'm still a good person"<BR>8) very critical, to point of indistinguishable that it wasn't my fault.<BR>9) Won't let you see her naked again.<BR>10) Wants a new car with a sunroof, and previously, open sunroof hurt her hair, open windows were bad for allergies (OM has sunroof, as does all of H cars)<BR>11) Begins being needed for male friends whose marriages are in trouble.<BR>12) doesn't want to say who was with her on her night out.<BR>13) goes to smokey bars when never before went with H, it hurt her eyes and had to wash clothes. Now carries nips in pocket book after never having more than 1/2 glass of wine with H in 10 years.<BR>14) comes home to tell me that WE won darts.<BR>15) Hides new issues of Cosmopolitan under bed, never read before.<BR>16) Says that Harley's "His Needs, Her Needs" is sexist. One should never look good just for H.<BR>17) "You don't have muscles and never asked me to go roller blading before."<BR>18) "What 2 day sporting events that you haven't been to in 3 years do you want to go to this month?"<BR>19) Coworker at volunteer job never knew I was married (because you didn't wear your rings, and you didn't want anyone to know you were, and i don't hang out with these people at 2am in the morning)<BR>20) One night 10 years ago and one day 8 years ago were the worst days of my life, do I have to bring it up again?<BR>21) Why do think I am having an affair?<BR>22) Because I don't trust us!<BR>23) I wrote those nice anniversary cards 5 years ago because I was just writing it.<BR>24) Kids, "OM was selected for the Olympic TRIALS back 20 years ago" H, "I QUALIFIED for the World Championships!"<BR>25) W to H, "I want you to meet new friend!"<BR>W disappears, and then comes back, stands int he corner, beet red.<BR>26) "Its all your fault."<BR>27) Well I can't change what I said to you, but I will only apologize if forced to.<BR>28) You can't go with me and the kids because you make me uncomfortable.<BR>29) Volunteer workers are real, they put their butts on the line for others. executives are not, you are not real.<BR>30) Now that you bring up the OM, I was going to talk to you about that, I have been very unhappy for a long, long time, for the last 10 years.<BR>31) We've done it your way for 10 years, now its my turn.<BR>32) subscription renewals are for maximum amount of years, usually 2 to 3.<BR>33) H's table setting for dinner is not set if late from work.<BR>34) Mumbled under breath, "I've always thought that I would be married to a bigger man."<BR>35) doesn't want picture taken with H any more, even by kids.<BR>36) When you hug me, do you have to hold it so long? (2 seconds)<BR>37) carries new hair scent in car<BR>38) can't drive to s or d soccer game in same car, always have to leave early for something.<P>And the finale:<P>39) W's newest best friend just found a soulmate by breaking up a marriage of one of soulmate's closest's friends.<P><BR>WHAT AM I STUPID? <BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited May 30, 2000).]

They say, "what do you mean by sex?"<P>Honest to God she said that!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

* Falsely acuses you of snooping or riffeling through their things.<P>* Thinks you're listening at the door when they're on the phone.<P>* At times goes way overboard in helping or complimenting (guilt), then other times is indifferent and could care less.<P>* Remembers the entire marriage as a farce or never getting along. No good times.<P>* Blames, blames, blames and blames.<P>* Says things like "you know I've always been a loaner".<P>* Can't remember from one day to the next things they've said or done.<P>* Never seems to know what day of the week it is and loses time.<P>* Pats you on the head like his pet dog instead of kissing you like he use to.<P>* Does not want you to touch him.<P>* Won't look you in the eyes when answering innocent questions.<P>* All of a sudden gets a pager.<P>* All of a sudden will not let you use his cell phone or password protects his cell.<BR>

The not wanting to go to church anymore or be around church friends anymore was my biggest clue that something was wrong.<P>Also denying my feelings. OW was visiting from Italy and needed a place to stay. He asked if she could stay with us. I said sure. Next thing you know, he was taking off the week to chauffeur her around. I told him that concerned me and I was uncomforatable about it. I got the same response, "You don't trust me." I told him "I don't trust situations." I was right. That weekend after the EA came the PA. Followed by two weeks of guilt on his part and the "I want a divorce" when I finally got into his e-mail and discovered that he loved her and confronted him.<P>Ugh. I hate this.

When your W brings home a "Men are from Mars"tape for you to listen to,and she says a"friend" at work gave it to her.<BR> --Murph

* Tells you "I don't think we should sign another year's lease"<P>* Starts talking like the teenage boy next door.<P>* Comes home wearing shirts you've never seen before.<P>* Accuses you of throwing that shirt away, then finds out you sent it to the cleaners.<P>* Doesn't want you to answer his new private "office" phone.<P>* Wants to buy his own underwear, whereas always wanted you to buy it before.<P>* Insists on doing his own laundry.<P>* Won't let you in the bathroom when he's taking a shower.<P>* Asks you for your copy of the key to his car.<P>* Auto Ins Co. calls and says husband wants to put you on separate policies.<P>* Ppl you havent seen in a while (his friends) start asking if you're still together. HUH?<P>* Ppl you haven't seen in a while ask if you're okay. HUH?<P>* Out of no where your H acts jealous over you.<P>* Encourages you to go on a out of town trip and before hated you being away.<P>* Calls you "Honey" and your normal pet name for 15 yrs has been Babe.<P>* You find long blonde hair on his car seats. H has dark short hair.<P>* The passenger door to his car is unlocked w/window rolled down slightly, and when he left solo an hour ago it wasn't.

*keeps asking you what you want out of life.<P>*Talks about how disappointed he is in life, his career, you, family income, the kids, etc.<P>*Keeps asking if you really love him, and looks skeptical when you say you do.<P>*Is angry all the time.

Besides all of the typical secretive things such as pager messages, extreme e-mail privacy ect...here are a few things that I noticed.<P>1. "introduces" you to a couple just like us!<BR>2. Brushes teeth, changed clothes, put on deodorant and cologne to run an errand<BR>3. Comes home from work and makes a bee-line for the bath tub...takes a bath when previously it was always showers<BR>4. Changes style of underwear<BR>5. Changes style of dress, was more detail oriented<BR>6. Became more interested in sex with you, but took a LONG time to actually "complete" the act...<BR>7. excuses excuses excuses as to why they needed to run errands ALONE<BR>8. asks OP to help on weekend projects instead of you, because you seemed tired.<BR>9. became a gym fanatic<BR>10. compliments became a thing of the past

I can't help but add to this post.
1. Starts coming home late.
2. Protects cell phone.
3. Suddenly unhappy with life.
4. Says we don't have any fun.
5. We are having fun, and he is elsewhere.
6. He criticizes me.
7. He says I am fat.
6. Says he doesn't like my body.
9. works on a saturday.
10. Never eats at home.
11. Sudden loss of weight.
12. Kidding about having lunch with other women, and laughing when I got upset... saying what is wrong with having friends of the opp. sex.... but in the past would of died if I did this... says he doesn't care if I do, why should I care if he does.
13. Showing no interest in our future.
14. Forgot my birthday for the first time ever.
15. Kept telling me how hard he had to work to get ahead.
16. Not talking to me when he is home.
17. Easily frustrated by me when home.
18. Spending social time away from me, with new guy friends, supposedly... from new job.
19. Telling me there is a girl at the office who reminds him of me.
20. Not showing up when he says he will.
21. Not wanting me to meet him for lunch, too busy... when he used to ask me all the time to please come to lunch with him... and I couldn't because of job... but suddenly I could and he did not want me to.
22. Sudden interest in new hobby, darts.
23. Always angry at me.
24. Not caring if I got my feelings hurt.
25. Sd. he loved me as the mother of his children but is not in love anymore... I cried and cried,,, because we had always been so in love, but now he suddenly is not.
26. Says I have done terrible things to make him lose his love for me... it is my fault I am losing a ghood man.
27. Playing darts, watning to buy a dart board.
28. Always saying he has to go to afterwork mixers, saying it is required, but acting all excited about going... I wanted hinm to do whatever he needed to succeed in work.
29. Always angry , super critical of everything I do. I seem to do everything wrong all of the sudden.
30. More comments about other women.
31. Less caring.
32. Doesn't even want to talk to me.
33. Nev er home fro dinner.
34. Doesn';t even know kids have been sick, no time to talk to him... he came home so late.
35. COming home after 9 pm constantily..
36. Geting rides from mysterious friends home after he missed bus out to the burbs, not telling me who gave the ride.<p>thanks, there are lots more.... agghh, it hurts to think about it. lisa

I had so very few, it is scary to me but my H was so good at this.<p>but here goes:<p>Don't worry only about working late, H and OW had noon hour flings.<p>Have H paged when he does not answer voice mail; as H checked his voice mail from motel room and phoned me back right away (Just away from his desk right?)<p>Missing money - although it was very litte money $20/week (she paid her half of the rooms and they hide money in an enveloe until they had enough.<p>Strange women talks to you at company christmas party - you have never heard of her but she knows your children's names; school etc. (big one)<p>Co-worker very nervous on the phone starts explaining "I work with your husband"<p>Strange phone calls stating "I'm the flooring guy's wife and wondering if H left yet to look at flooring" Hello - flooring guy has no name???<p>Not interested in you or family activities anymore always stress from the job<p>My H was good though when he told me becuase she was caught (via voice mails as they had call display). I did nto have a clue, never even suspected.

I have some of these signs, But does it really mean he is cheating? I don't know how to take this. He says everything he does is innocent on the internet. Should I believe him? I have thought of having our computer bugged. Should I do that? He has never lied to me before. But now I have personally caught him in several lies. What do I do? He has changed a lot since I have had our baby in October. He seems more distant. He says I never gave him enough sex over the years. I need help. I have posted in other areas but with no success. How do I deal with this. Should I just keep crying my eyes out at the pulpit and Praying? Help me please I am getting so depressed over this. Please email me. Friendly_face@Ivillage.com.<p>Sincerely Mrs_Debra

"He has never lied to me before. But now I have personally caught him in several lies. What do I do? "<p>"Should I believe him?" NO<p>"I have thought of having our computer bugged. Should I do that?" YES<p>"Should I just keep crying my eyes out at the pulpit and Praying?" Praying - YES

WOW WHAT A LIST.....
My husband and I have been having serious trouble since August. I confronted him at least 2 times about the OW I suspected (but only after a friend planted the idea in my head that he was INVOLVED with her. We have been married 31 years and I never thought this would happen.. At first I thought it was midlife crisis... and still may be..who knows. It wasn't until I confronted the OW that I know for sure there is something going on.. At this point I believe it is only "emotional infidelity". But, I have no way of knowing anything "for sure". Here are some of the changes I have noticed.
1. New interest in a motorcycle.... after he got it he was gone... for hours at a time and didn't ask anymore if I wanted to go.
2. New image... black leather jacket, gloves etc.
3. I am his barber for the past 20 years and wants a different hair style... leave it longer than normal.
4. ALWAYS WORE T-SHIRT. And now... never wears one... says its to hot.. IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER????
5. Tells me he is "numb and feels nothing for me...but he cares about my well- being. Encouraged me to get a job...NIGHT JOB . Get drivers licence and he never wanted me to drive before. I think this is to get me on my own feet so he can leave me soon.
6. Moved out of my bedroom...
7. Removed wedding band
8. Withdrawling from all those who love him.
9. Is glued to his lap top...even when he rents a movie for us to watch. His contantly typing but when I walk over to it... he has CNN NEWS PAGE UP.. HUMMMMM CANT TYPE AT THAT SITE.
10. Started smoking
11. Lost 60 pounds.
12. Will not pray with me anymore... or seek any kind of councelling for us.
13. Resigned at his job that pays more than $20 and hour...
14. Is not thinking clear... In thick FOG!
15. Has just left for a 3 day trip...
16. Encouraged me to go see my daughter for 2 weeks in Oklahoma... I live in OHIO. He has never done that before. Said it would help us clear our heads. Hummmm???
17. No cell phone bills can be found from the past 4 months... It is in his name and I don't know if the company would give me the past print outs.... working up enough never to ask.
18. Don't care about where I am or what I do anymore.
19. Wanted me to move out... Im not going anywhere.... he will have to be the one to leave me... Im working on huge LB deposits!
20. And I guess the final one for now... He claims he and the OW are just good frinds and have been for the past 18 months! Fun, I never knew anything about this "friendship".<p>Yep... funny how those involved in an A... have a lot in common.