H and I got back Monday night from 6 days together (longest since we've been separated) at his sister's. We acted like a couple, slept together, shared some really close and intimate times and it was overall a good experience. Sometimes things felt really good and natural and other times awkward. But I kept my expectations in line and am doing OK. Only on the last day did I become somewhat weepy and depressed. Most important the kids had a great time. <P>We finally talked about the "unspeakable" - the fact that H is still involved with OW. (Yuck!) He told me he has "started the process" of breaking up with her, that they fight, that she is too immature, etc. But that he still has been unable to really end it. (And we all know that means it is not really over, or even close to over.) I did not lovebust. I was very good and sometimes it was very hard. H did agree by the end of the trip that he has to end it definitively with OW before we can start to try to reconcile. This is progress because before I think he thought he could keep seeing me, being friends, talking about our issues and problems - all while OW was still unresolved. I admit I was willing to do this for a while, but now I realize we will never make further progress on our marriage while he is still involved with her (duh Starpony!). Don't get me wrong - definite progress has been made in plan A, but now I have been in plan A for almost a year. This past six months it was largely to help keep H sane while he looked for another job. But now he has an offer and I am comfortable pulling back to protect my feelings. I have done my best to both show him and reassure him that I have made and am willing to make further changes in myself to repair and improve the marriage. <P>But I am coming to the conclusion that he may never be strong enough to end it with OW - or even if that ends, not strong enough to come back to us. He is clearly afraid that it might not work with us - even though he acknowledged that during this Thanksgiving trip there were so many positives that were not in our relationship before (able to talk without anger or blaming, more honest communication, etc). He also said that many of the things that bugged him before about us still bug him (e.g. the lack of "spark" and "spontaneity" between us). ARRGGHH - I just want to shake him and say DUUHHH! You've been involved with OW for close to a year and a half. How could we have made forward progress on our relationship during that time??!! Of course there are no guarantees unless you are willing to work at it!!!! All the changes he is seeing in the "relationship" are things I have changed about me. As much as he tries to put it on me - saying he needs to be sure I can be what he wants in a partner (never yet having given me a real chance to try mind you), it is not about me at this point. It is about him. He wants to be "sure of his decision" and "not have any regrets". I think he wants guarantees that are just not reasonable to expect. He is being immature and wimpy. (Oops - don't tell K I made a disrespectful judgement! ) He told me today he is "talking through things" with OW (gag) and that he can't tell me anymore. I am so tired of all this.<P>I am not going to full blown plan B. Lor once pegged me as "not plan B" and she is right. But H knows, and I am now comfortable with sticking to not talking about repairing our marriage until he is able to come to me and say he is through with OW and is willing to take the steps we need to rebuild our trust. He wants "time" to work through things and we are giving each other some space. To me this means not sleeping over or being affectionate or any of those other "needs meeting" activities I have been engaging in. Basically I will be a good co-parent and a friend when I can -but not too intimate. It is just getting too hard to be tossed back and forth like this.<P>H clearly feels guilty, and kept saying how I deserved better, and didn't understand how anyone could want him, etc. And gang, I am running out of encouraging responses to these self-pitying diatribes of his. I want to say - then just be the better man I deserve. Just do it! Stop whining! But, again I don't judge or lovebust however I am losing the ability to support. And sometimes I ask myself why I still want him - and that scares me.<P>I'm also scared about him moving away. Probably in about 3 months. How would we ever get back together once he lives 6 hours away?<P>And now on top of everything it looks my dept. is being downsized and I may soon be out of a job - like within a month. I really feel like everything is caving in here. I had counted on having my job and life here - even if H moved away and we were still separated or even if divorce was in process. Now I need to really focus on me, my kids and my livelihood - in a way that is much more immediate than before. Ironically I was contacted today by someone in the new city my H's job is in who is interested in offering me a position ( H gave my resume out when he was interviewing - more bizarre mixed messages.) <P>Oh gosh…. This is such a long vent. If anyone reads this far you can see how confused I am. On one hand a good six days with H, on the other, more indecisiveness from him. What do you all think? Besides the fact that I am losing it again….<P>Starpony<BR>

There are things you can do and things that you can do nothing about.<P> Lets take the things you can do something about. Concentrate on you and your children. First piority job. Check out the job contact. It doeesn't matter what city it is in. Don't worry what H will say after all he gave your resume to someone. If that doesn't pan out start looking now don't wait. Even if you don't lose your job now what will keep from losing it the next time that is no way to live. <P> Secondly you were worried how you could work on marriage with H 6 hours away this might be somehting that is suppose to be you getting a job in the same city.<P> Where will OW be. Remember distance between H and OW is very very good. Might be away for him to break it off. ALso if he is gone for awhile he might miss you even more and realize what he really wants. <P>Think of the good outcomes and let it go. I would definitely stop the intimacy part with H he should have his cake and it too. Be supportive as a friend but don't go any farther. Let him realize what you have been giving him by taking it away, but reassure him that under the right conditions you are there for him. (Breaking it off with OW). <P>You are not losing it just a little overwhelmed and the thought of losing your job pushes you over. Since that is something you can actually work on do it. COncentrate on that and maybe everything else will ease up a little or not feel so overwhelming. <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Argh! Unfortunately, I view this as more of the same. He wants to keep his feet in both camps. He hasn't yet found the strength to address either direction with conviction.<P>Starpony, put yourself first. Your husband has to find his own courage. You can't give it to him. So focus on what you need to do for yourself. If that means cutting back on the interactions with him, do that. If you're comfortable seeing him, do that. I doubt that either will change things right now. The strength needs to come from him. Moving to a new city might be the event that gets him to take action.<P>I don't really know your financial situation. Do you feel you can be without an income for a while? How marketable do you think you are? If someone just called you based on a resume from your husband, it might not be difficult to find a job. Do you have an INDEPENDENT interest in going to the new city, or do you like where you're at? I think you should answer these questions without regard to your husband. If your finances permit (or his do), you can always pack up and leave at a later date. So do what YOU want to do.<P>I wish there was some magic pill we could give these guys to make them realize how stupidly they're behaving. They see the changes we've made, enjoy our company, want us and the family in their future, yet can't give up the OW. Come on! But there's no way to get this moving on your timetable. Only his counts. He has to find the strength. You can only continue to be the best Starpony you can be and pray that he comes around. I think the move works STRONGLY to your advantage. If it were me, I'd hold the line on not going until he breaks it off with OW. That distance should be a big factor in their relationship.<P>Best of luck.

Starpony. These guys have good advice. As another one who will be unemployed very soon (and no, no date yet, 3 days, 3 weeks, who knows), you do have to take care of that first. <P>I don't know. For some reason the fact you were contacted by someone in the place he's moving to is interesting. Maybe it's a sign or something. Don't trust my judgement anymore.<P>I too think you're on the right track by pulling back a little. It doesn't sound like he'll actually DO anything unless he HAS to.<P>Hang in there. And Good Luck!<P>Lori

Thanks for the replies. You practical, down-to-earth gals are women after my own heart.<P>SDS - Thank you for helping me focus. I will check out the job lead but have also already been pursuing things here.<P>Distressed - He really drives me crazy you know!!! But yes, your questions are the right ones. No, I cannot afford to be without an income and keep our house for long. Yes, I am very marketable and have a lot of contacts in my industry - if pushed I could find a job very quickly, though it would likely involve relocating. Guess I am less worried about finding a job than I am stressed about having to look. And yes, I love where I'm at - my kids school, my friends. My priority has always been to stay put until I was confident H and I could reconcile. I will not move until it is over with OW unless it is in my INDEPENDENT best interest.<P>Lostva- Thanks for the support. I was contacted by the same place that is recruiting H. I think they think if they can also offer me something that will make it more likely for him to accept their offer.<P>I really appreciate all your input. I feel a plan of action coming together... <P>you are all priceless..<P>Starpony

Starpony,<P>Hang in there. <P>I'm pretty sure that our stories are very similar and we have acknowledged that in the past. Probably several months ago as I don't think you and I have been posting as much lately. We went through the fighting really hard stage in the beginning and are just coasting (plan a)now. <P>You can read my profile as I try to keep it up to date but I'll give you a brief summary. H still in apt 3+ months. Said he would be home by Thanksgiving or when his lease was up. I thought his lease was up on 11/30 but he still hasn't moved home. <P>We are much more compatible now. Sharing more about what is going on in our lives and discussing mutual things which is mainly our children and their many activities. (Ages 9&6)But we are discussing other things that go on in our lives such as neighbors, family, friends etc. It's an improvement over the last five years where we just ignored each other.<P>As for the ow, they work together, he was/is in love with her. I don't know what to think. He says she is the most wonderful person in the world and in the next sentence I am. <P>I am like you I think. I wonder somedays why I am putting up with this. I look at my boys, who worship their father, and he really is a great father besides the fact that he doesn't live here, and say why am I hanging around for this? He has totally screwed up my, my childrens, my siblings, his siblings and other immediate families lives by doing this. By sucombing to someone elses miserable life instead of taking care of his own he has managed to dig himself into a 20 foot pit with no hand holds to pull him self out. <P>Sorry, I went off at the end. Hang in there. I feel my h slooooowwwwlly coming back. The fog is going to vanish one day. I pray I am right and you and I will both make it. E Mail me if you want but I don't check it every day; cwalker842@aol.com, I have cut down checking several times a day on this site but still check once a day just to see what's going on. <P>If you want, e-mail me or contact me on this site and we can actually exchange real phone numbers and vent in person. I'm a very normal person. I would love to talk to Lor in person too.<P>My name is Chris. I live in So Ca. I am self employed with a business in my home. I am a licensed tax preparer and am registered with the IRS. I do bookkeeping and payroll from my home as well as taxes. <P>My main focus is working at school with my kids; volunteering in their classrooms, going on field trips, correcting papers and then I go to work on my own business.

Hi *Pony,<P>I just can't get over the number of people on this board who are going through this nightmare, then have job concerns on top of it! It's no wonder people nowadays go postal!! <P>All the advice given so far is very sound. We have to simply concentrate on US, and what is best for us. <P>The 'spark & spontaneity' your H speaks of is components of romantic love. He is delusional or at least very unrealistic if he thinks this should simply 'happen' in a mature marriage. If it is truly something important to him, he has just as much responsibility as you to make it happen. Don't let him make you feel this is an area you are lacking in. Prior to the affair, what type of 'romantic' behaviour was he doing with you to give you that 'spark'? Did he ever tell you what he needed in this area or what you do that gives him the 'spark'? In my case, it wasn't till after the affair started, that my H revealed to me some of the things I did that really impressed him in this area. I was dumbfounded, and so saddened, at the same time. Because, obviously, if I knew what it was I was doing at the time that was so positive, I would have continued. We can't be expected to read their minds.<P>Since I am now in a fullblown Plan B (with serious doubts there will ever be a reconciliation), I will let you know if it makes a difference. From what I can gather from reading posts here, if a spouse refuses to end an affair, Plan A is usually futile. You are right, as long as the affair continues, the marriage is doomed.

hi starpony, no advice you have not already heard, just sending you hugs and prayers.

Aww, Starpony, as you know, I go in and out of separation. Right now I'm wondering why I let him move home when my trust is such that I'm not so much worried about the OW as whether or not he'll do one dang more thing to rip my heart out or show me callousness...<P>Well, can't worry about that.<P>I feel like God smiled on me when the OW started dating my H's roommate. H got to see the OW seducing someone else and feels real disappointment and disillusionment with her. I remained faithful, the OW didn't...<P>Unfortunately that isn't something you can make happen.<P>Sometimes I think the excitement of keeping 2 relationships going keeps them so busy and in such turmoil that they miss it if the OW is missing or...if the spouse backs off and starts living their own life.<P>I couldn't manage a decent Plan B, but now think of what I did more as a Divorce Busting Last Resort or 180. Of course, I got a little too close to the fire by developing a close male friend--to the point where now my H says that relationship must end and I miss the friend...God, what a tangled web this all gets to be, but in my 6th separation, I guess I can't be faulted for thinking I was headed toward divorce...(rationalization, I know , do what Harley says, not what I did.)<P>Starpony, talking with your H is good, even if the subject matter wasn't. His loyalty to her isn't complete if he's telling you negatives about her.<P>God Bless.<P><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P><BR>