Well... it finally happened... we came to a conclusion. The only reason I'm sharing this is because something significant was said that I think kind of explains how I've felt for many months. But I think it will come in the middle of some venting/babbling, so please be patient.<P>About six months ago, on these very boards, I asked how many couples actually make it using the Harley method. Of course, the proponents say that X-number of couples (an unusually high percentage) make it but move on, so it's hard to take a hard-line tally. <P>Here's how it all worked out in my house. There have been 4 affairs on my H's part, and several daliences that were not affairs, but suspicious. I had one affair, and an inappropriate friendship (no, not a Clinton-type, but an emotional type) with the pastor of our prior church. This "problem" has been going on in our marriage for 15 years out of 20. To me, this signaled the need for super-duper counseling, and I went alone many times throughout the years. My H went with me only after my affair last year, and then only for three visits. However, I agree that the counselor was an idiot. <P>Late last year, David had a relationship with a woman that turned into a full-blown physical affair. She feel in love with him, he felt a "connection" with her. <P>Now here (I hope ) is the part that I really just realized as we talked this evening... I *never* really did get over his 3 affairs from years ago (I know, JL, you told me so!). Yes, we lived, we laughed, we had some very wonderful times, but under it all, these woman peeked their ugly heads back into our marriage over and over again. I thought I was over the pain, and then, all these years later, some trigger would hit, and there the pain would be again. I've said this before, but one of the woman loved the band Chicago, and gave David several tapes. You know how often grocery stores play stupid Chicago songs? All the ding-dong time... must make shopping more pleasant for most, but for me, it hit me like a ton of bricks... all these years later. David still wants to *kill* the OM, and it's been over 9 months, and of course, this newest OW is very fresh, D-day being only one month ago tonight. <P>Sometimes, despite all that you do... an affair really is a sign, or a slap in the face, that things are over. Gosh, I wish it weren't so, but in our case, it certainly has been. <P>I hope I don't get flamed for this post, because it is from the bottom of my heart. I love my H, and I wish it would have worked... but we aren't meant to be together. We cause each other untold pain in so many ways, and for whatever reason, can't seem to get past it. <P>I haven't posted an original post for quite awhile, and in fact, have only lurked, barring one post since the board split up a couple of months ago. I do want those of you who care about me and David to know what's going on, and to continue praying for our happiness; no matter where the road/s take us. <P>Finally, there is no hate in our home, only love, and a hope that we can find some kind of peace!<P>Best wishes to all of you as you continue to heal your marriages! <p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited February 28, 2000).]

Hi sheryl,<BR>What can I say? you guys know better which way things are going, and what barriers you're finding in your relationship.<BR>I really thought you guys would make it for a while, but I certainly can understand why they are not, at least at this point.<BR>There is a lot behind, that was never dealt properly - I talked to you about this before - and it was carrying into the present.<BR>I do think that you guys love each other. It's just that a lot happened and things can't seem to be the same anymore. You both are more aware of what hurts you and what you feel shouldn't happen in your marriage. before you were just ignoring it, or trying to.<BR>David never really assumed that what happened years ago were real affairs, and for that there was never closure. Your own affair hurt him and he felt like he was the one betrayed, still without assuming those other affairs he had before.<BR>You were hurt and frustrated, needing closure from what had happened, and you affair happened. <BR>From those affairs you learned that both of you needed more than the other was willing or ready to give.<BR>It just happened, and other things kept happening and adding to the situation.<BR>I can only say that I wish you both the best in your choices, and remind you of the importance of liking and respecting yourselves. <BR>Whatever happens, will change your lives but doesn't have to change you, each one of you is a good person, with a bunch of problems and a complex situation in your hands.But good people just the same.<BR>Maybe you'll find each other again at another time, maybe you won't, but sheryl you can't ever say that you didn't try. And David too, in his own way.<BR>Big hug to you my friend.<BR>talk to you later <BR>Kat

NB-<P>Was that a mutual and joint realization for both you and David? As I posted to you several weeks ago when you were hurt and in pain from David and the Church Lady, did you talk in your sessions about the Personality Issues I mentioned to you which you acknowledged?<P>You have really done so much to always try to "Hang In" and do your best. Has David reached the same place in his mind about your relationship and where it should go?<P>I was always cheering for you two to find your way back...and find success with your "New" relationship.<P>My sense is that your heart has decided to move on it's own to a new place and a new time.<P>I wish you both happiness, clarity and peace and sure hope you can treat each other in a loving and caring way regardless of the final path each of you choose to follow.<P>Best to you and David...<P>mrrlk

Hi, Sheryl.<P>Love and peace. Peace, sometimes that's the best thing to have. I always had hoped things would turn out differently for you and David, but, most of all, I have hoped that you would find that peace. <P>We love you, you know. <P>Lori

Hi Sheryl,<P>I'm so sorry.<P>As you know, I feel a lot like you do.<BR>I feel that we are heading for the divorce courts, however, the feelings that we still have for each other will ensure that we will always be there for each other. I don't know in what capacity, but there has been no hatred or terrible anger which always makes it easier.<P>You and David sound like you feel the same way. You can be loving friends, who were married, but it didn't work out. I'm glad it has ended that way, if it has ended. It's so much nicer to remember the good, and focus on the good, than the bad.<P>I'm thinking of you, and sending a big hug to you my friend<P>Jo

New Beginning,<P>Good morning to you.<P>I am sorry for the unhappiness you are feeling now. As I have said here before, no matter how hard one person tries, a marriage cannot be truly successful without a total committment by both partners. It doesn't sound like you have had that committment from your husband.<P>You have battled, worked, tried, compromised, forgiven, given in, asked for forgiveness, cried, gotten counseling, sacrificed, and loved. There is nothing else you could have done. Isn't that one of the basics of the Harley principles? If you have done everything possible and the marriage still fails, you will find peace in the knowledge that you did all that you could. You have worked around obstacles that most of us could never even imagine, much less be willing to tackle.<P>Since I first found this board over five months ago I cannot count the number of times I have read your posts and asked myself "How much more can she possibly stand of this?" You have been so strong and so brave for so long, but everyone has a limit.<P>So, move forward with your life with the knowledge that even though your own marriage could not be saved, the time you have spent here has helped to save many others, including mine. I hope that you will continue to be here to offer another perspective to this thing called infidelity (better known as hell on earth!). <P>Please know that you are valued, appreciated, respected, admired, and loved here. Plus, you are one of the few people here who will be totally honest with people when they need it. I really like that!<P>I'll be thinking of you and watching for your posts. I told you this a few weeks ago and it is still true: You will survive, you're too strong not to!!<P>With prayers and best wishes for you,<P>Peppermint

My prayers for all of us have been to give us strength to deal with all of this. You were granted that strength to deal with your marriage. You have tried so hard to make a go of it and that is what counts. There will never be any what if I had..... THere is always a time to take a step back and really think and you did that. Now it is time to start over and make a new life for yourself. You will still be in my prayers for the strength to do that.<P><BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Sheryl,<P>I hope you and David at sometime both heal from all this. I know you both are in so much pain.<P>(hugs)<BR>TNT

Sheryl,<P>I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you. But, no one can say that you didn't give it your all.<P>I admire you for the efforts that you have made.<P>I'll pray for you while you deal with the pain. Hugs...

NB,<P>The path infidelity took in your life would appear to be a slow rolling, down hill slope. I don't recall you being left with, or leaving small children on xmas day for instance. For whatever reason, the persons each of you became involved with did not "work out" and you both returned to the marriage. Neither of you walked away, lived with OP, demanded a divorce and proceeded with standard infidel extremes of cruelty.<P>Infidelity is like a pattern in the marriage. Each of you choose(chose)this route. David did it first, second and third. Finally you tried it, but I will blame David for setting the pace. I was totally shocked that David did this again just one month ago. It almost looks like you reach out to each other through infidelity? (or at least he does)<P>In any case, and against MB teaching, infidelity is an incurable cancer to a marriage - in most cases. We can look for recovery stats here but I believe these people are truly an exception just like some people recover from incurable cancers. <P>The 'Chicago'type triggers will not go away, although they will probably fade a lot when you are not with David. <P>It's hard to move on after this NB. I am trying very hard to do it myself. Giving your trust and love to another will be hard.<BR>Some days you will have peace, others you'll relive the pain. It just does not go away.<P>If at any time you find infidelity a part of a relationship again remove yourself immediately. I have been married 2x to infidels. I NEVER thought it could happen twice. Don't ever do the infidelity dance again. Don't give years of your life over to it, it is NOT worth it. I am not proud of the time, my precious life time, that I took in trying to recover with infidels. It brings no relief, no sense of peace and means nothing when compared with MOVING ON.<P>I too wish that I was reading here that you and David are a huge success but I fully understand that this can't be cured most of the time.<P>I hope you find the love relationship you so obviously deserve.<P>Peace to you Sheryl.

Sheryl,<P>What you have gone through seems to have mirrored mine.<P>I'm sorry this has happened. I hope that you both can find some peace.<P>Bob<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

Good Morning!<P>Thank you all for the outpouring of love and support!! This is where we need a tear icon!<P>I have to get ready for work, so can't post a personal thought to each of you right now, but I promise to later...<P>Just know that you all made me want to cry, just a little bit... out of gratitude!<P>~Sheryl<P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited February 28, 2000).]

Sheryl,<P>I have been lurking some. I saw this post and wanted to share my heartfelt sympathy for both you and David. I do have to say that I really believe that deep down you both are inolove with eachother. However, so much has transpired to cloud those feelings.<P>I respect that you have tried your very best to make this marriage work. In the final analysis, that is all any of us can do. We give as much effort as we can and do those things we think are right based on the teachings and experiences of others, as well as our own. God bless you.<P>Wishing you the happiness you deserve!!!!!<P>Love you, Desiree<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Sheryl:<BR> I've replied to you only rarely, because it was obvious to me that had dealt with, and were now dealing with things that I could not begin to offer insight on. But, I do want to say that from reading your story, I have come to admire all you have accomplished, and how strong you are. I know that you are not doing this in haste or anger, but after much soul-searching.<BR> You and your family are in my prayers--<BR>Kathi

(((((((((((((((SHERYL))))))))))))))))<P>I have no insight to offer....<P>only love and support.....for a friend...<P>Dylan

New_B,<P>I just read your post and it sounds as if decisions have been made this weekend. If these are final decisions I am truely sorry to hear it. You know that I have been rooting for you two to come together and get things sorted out.<P>It seems that you have. And in doing so finally admitted to yourselves and each other how much you have hurt each other. Being the eternal optimist that I am , I hope that this brings both of you peace and a clearer perspective on each other. I also hope that this clear perspective leads to the both of you seeing the good in each other. <P>You have much history that is good and now that you and David have apparently finally admitted things to yourselves and each other, maybe the healing will begin.<P>Must go right now.<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL<P>

No words.<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Sheryl}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Sorry... still can't seem to get away long enough to post big long thank you's... but know that I am checking in and have read what each and every one of you have written.<P>To those of you who know we love each other, and wonder how we could come to this conclusion... yes, there is love here, but it just isn't enough. Sometimes, that's the truth of it. We'd like it to be different, but it isn't. I haven't felt this peaceful and confident of a decision for at least 2 years, honestly. <P>Am I happy? No. But I am able to breathe now. And that's something.<P>~Sheryl

breathing is good!

keep breathing girl.<P>Thinking of you<BR>Jo