Can someone give me some feedback? I haven't posted in quite some time because H didn't like my visiting this site. H had PA, discovery 18 mos ago, ended (for real, I think), when I caught them together again 13 mos. ago. H won't participate in this site, read Dr. Harley's info, and has been very against counseling. Went only 2x over 1 yr. ago. Been trying to fix everything on my own. Discontinued counseling myself about 8 mos. ago. I tried to go along with pretending like nothing ever happened, never bring it up, but I've never been able to discuss it with him -- he won't allow it. Just started counseling again last week. Christian counselor -- even he is not optimistic that we can ever work things out. H won't talk about anything other than the weather, work, surface stuff, etc. Most of the affection in our marriage flows one way -- from me to him. He occasionally gives back, but very little, very seldom. My bucket is empty. I can't fix this marriage on my own any more. Set up a joint counseling session with the new counselor for next week and when I told my H about it last Wed., he hasn't spoken to me since and has physically withdrawn completely. I have tried to reach out, but haven't been very enthusiastic about it. Our 25th wedding anniver. is coming up in one month and that is what is really getting to me -- that right now our marriage is a farce -- and why should we be celebrating? I really would like to leave, but I don't know what keeps me from leaving. My counselor asked, "don't you think you deserve better than this?" -- I don't know, I just want the pain to stop. I don't want to hurt him, but I can't go on living like this. Can anyone offer any lifelines? Thanks. jen<P>

I don't know what to say except I wish I could give you a hug. I really think Plan B would be in order at this point. 18 months is a long time with no cooperation from H. And believe me I learned the hard way, by not discussing or facing up to what happened that it will ALWAYS come back to haunt you, no matter how much it is being swept under the rug. After 2 years of not discussing and not putting our cards on the table H and I are finally in counseling, because the resentment, hate and anger are still there from me!

Jen,<P>I don't know what advice to offer you, but I do know how you feel. I can't get my H to cooperate either. But he's already moved out, so my situation is very different. After 18 months, I think maybe it's time to start pampering yourself. Think of something you've always wanted to do and do it. ANYTHING to make yourself feel better. That's what I'm doing right now. I'm going back to college this fall. ((((((hugs))))))<P>You're in my prayers!<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

I lived that way for years didn't get anything from H.<BR>I still can't believe I did it for so long.<P>Finally told him to leave,hardest thing I've ever done, because I don't want that and<BR>he was unwilling to work on a marriage he felt wasn't there.<BR>He leaves Fri. my 2 teenage girls and I <BR>are devistated BUT.......................<BR>and that's a big but (no pun intended) <BR>I feel that he needs to go and find out what it is he really wants.<BR>We're just all praying and working at him coming home.<BR>I have no advice to give because each person is different and everyone is still looking for answers but hey if we can we will help,<BR>hope you find some answers soon before you begin to hate him and you feel it's too late to even want to try. That's why your here right?<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Peg<p>[This message has been edited by Peggy (edited February 29, 2000).]

Thank you, everyone, for your comments and concern. I'm glad you mentioned Plan B, but I'm a bit confused, Plan B "is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery". Since my H has ended the affair, but just hasn't 'agreed to the plan for recovery' -- am I supposed to leave and then state that unless he 'agrees to a plan for recovery' -- that the marriage will end? I think this is what I am supposed to do. I will have to be the one who leaves because he would not leave if I asked him. I think if I leave I will be in more control. Then I should try to see if he agrees to counseling and if not, how long do I wait? Thanks again, for all your input, I really do appreciate it.<BR>jen

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{jen}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Don't have much advice to give you but wanted to offer my hugs and support.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole

So how long do I wait? I wish I could just change myself and accept things the way they are (my giving more, his giving less & taking more, no real communication, in other words, no real intimacy).... I've tried to busy myself with other interests (bought a dog, taking a class), but I have no family here (& he hates my family & refuses to visit), our friends are "OUR" friends, so I can't talk to them.... so what else can I do? As I said before, my bucket is empty and I'm just at the end of my rope. Thanks for listening..... jen<BR>

Jen,<BR> Not sure if I can give you any advice.It sounds like your H has completely shut you out.Perhaps he's still seeing someone,he's suffering from depression,or is having some kind of mid-life crisis.Something's going on in his head if he doesn't want to even try.Some questions for you:Has he always hated your family?Why?Do you think this reflects on the way he feels about you?At what point in your marriage did he become distant?Sometimes it helps to make a timeline of your marriage that might help you to discover what went wrong.You can't just pretend to ignore that he cheated on you.That's like a bomb waiting to go off.Doesn't it make you angry that he could do that after all those years with you?Don't sell yourself short,you gave to him for all those years,too.No,you can't just accept things the way they are,it'll eat you up inside.Perhaps(and I'm no expert)you could try giving less,find some new friends of your own,and get out of the house without him.Maybe he'll come around if he thinks you have a new life of your own,and don't need him(a mini plan B?).Something has got to give here,or you're both going to be miserable.I know you don't want to leave because it's hard to just give up a 25 year marriage.But you can't go on like this,either.If your H doesn't like you posting here,that's too bad.At least you're trying to save your marriage.Keep posting and reading.Take care. --Murph

Murph, thanks for the suggestions. My H has always thought he was better than my family. They are working class, just regular people (two brothers are mechanics). It's not just my family -- he thinks he's better than most people on earth and is constantly criticizing and belittling those around him. He knows (from the little therapy he went to), that he can't go on like this (attitude), and he's tried to change this negative attitude, but it still shows through -- especially with his intolerance of my family. I've tried, since I first started counseling a few years ago, to build my own life, but it's tough. For example, a few weekends ago met my cousin for a girls night out and overnight stay (it was 2 1/2 hrs. away). We've done this before. Go sing Karoake, eat dessert for dinner, go shopping. He says he wants me to do things like this, but seems to always pick a fight with me before I leave, and then when I get back, doesn't want to hear anything about how my visit was. I get home and I'm so excited to tell him about all the things we did and he just shuts me out. I don't go and visit my family much any more (they are 4 1/2 hrs. away and my visits were when his affair happened). I know my family is far from perfect, but I miss them terribly (brothers and their kids, a few close aunts and uncles). His family is close by and it hurts to always have holidays with his family and never with mine. It's like my feelings don't count. I've bargained, pleaded, to no avail. He never does what he doesn't want to. I don't think he's still seeing her -- I don't think he's seeing anyone at all. I just think he's satisfied with this non-emotional life that's filled with lots of material things and little emotional fulfillment. I guess he just doesn't need what I need (yes, I know, his needs/her needs) -- I can go through a survey like that and guess at what some of his needs are and do a better job from my end -- but he won't even look at my side of what I need. He just has things so mixed up -- he puts way too much emphasis on material things and no value at all on relationships and emotions. So what am I to do? I'm so sad.... jen

Jen,<BR> This is a tough one.I've known a few guys like your H.I wondered how their wives put up with them.I think it's pretty common(at least in this country)to get obsessed over material things.Bigger,better,faster,keeping up with the Joneses.Even in my marriage,I believe we made this mistake.Only when you lose everything,or your spouse,do you realise that's not the way to live.Does your family ever come to see you?Perhaps you could have a holiday at your home,and have them(and your in-laws?)over for a change.I believe(and I've been accused of this)that men don't always need to be"in touch with their feelings".Some men don't need to feel emotional closeness,or feel the need to talk all the time.As I found out,this can be very detrimental to a relationship.Perhaps your H just takes the status quo for granted.How do you think he would feel if you walked out on him?He would have all his toys,but no wife.Do you think he would care? --Murph

Over the course of the 18 mos. since discovery, I've asked for a divorce 3x. Each time he asked me to stay and claims that the material things don't mean as much as I do to him. However, his actions don't match his words. I've told him repeatedly how important being a 'friend' in marriage is, but he never wants to talk about feelings or share things, it's all just surface stuff. I have asked my family to come up to see me, but in the six years we've lived in our present home, they've only been there 2x (our daughter HS grad. & daughter's wedding). They are all busy with small children, and claim it's too difficult to travel 4 1/2 hrs (brothers) -- and my father is legally blind and doesn't drive. And now my daughter moved across the country in October.... so I really feel all alone.<BR>Thanks for the shoulder.... It really does help. jen

It sounds like your H has controlled everything in your life, belittling your family, not liking you around them. He is a MASTER controller! It sounds like he wants a wife in NAME ONLY. No emotional stuff, just a physical body there. You need to start your own life without you always worrying about what your H thinks. He obviously doesn't plan on making any commitments to helping to improve your marriage.

I really can feel some of what you are experiencing in your present situation, as my now ex of 28 yrs, had a similar attitude problem, also towards my family. Although my faily was very good to our children and were very hospitable when we visited them [live several states away}, iI was always walking on eggshells because he would make comments that sounded arrogant or sarcastic. I hated those trips, although I never knew why till I was divorced and could step back from the situation. If I could go back and do things differently, I would go see my family alone without him, not only on holidays, but anytime I wanted. I would also find some women's activities to join or participate in and let him sit home or do whatever he wants to do. There are many inexpensive things you can do if money is an issue--bowling leagues, flower clubs, exercise classes, church grps, volunteer work.book clubs at the local bookstores. Start building a life for yourself and let him see you enjoying and living life on your terms for a change!

Yes, I think I am ready to build a new life. But I can't do this within the confines of my marriage. I have tried this over the last several years (lots of activities, other interests, leaving him at home and going out and having fun), and it didn't work. He just becomes more distant and our situation more unpleasant. My Christian counselor, last week, gave me the odds of less than 1% that I can get this marriage to work. However, given my past history, there is also little chance that I will have the courage to leave, which is what I really want, I just can't seem to bring myself to do it. Instead I just struggle along.... jen

Jen,<BR> I've done a lot of reading,here and in books.It's sounds like you could be very vulnerable to an affair right now,or what they call an"accomplice"to help you get out of your marriage.This isn't what you want.The last thing you need to do is jump out of a bad marriage into another relationship.If you do decide to leave your marriage,you must find the courage to do it on your own.You would need time alone to get back your self-esteem and respect before entering any relationship.Perhaps a legal separation,or living apart for a while would be in order.It would give you(and your H)time to decide if you really want a full-fledge divorce.Something to consider.Would you be able to make it financially on your own?Sometimes that's a major problem.Perhaps moving in with your family for a while would give you some time to think.Take care.<BR> --Murph

Murph, Some good comments. You're right -- my having an affair right now would be disastrous -- I definitely haven't considered this route and I won't even considering going there. I'd love to move in with someone from my family, but the closest family member is 4 1/2 hrs. away. I can't leave my job right now because I would definitely need my income to support myself. I could make it alone on my income, but then he couldn't make the house payments on his own. That's part of my dilemma. If only it wasn't so complicated. <P>He's not talking to me (since last week when I told him that I made a joint counseling appt. for Tues. the 7th), but I did hear him on the phone last night telling someone that the '7th was no good as he has something else planned' -- so it looks like he plans on joining me. So for now, I'll wait and see how this session goes. It's sad, though, as the counselor told me we have a very miniscule chance of 'making it' -- he said it would take a miracle from God. Thanks for your comments and support. jen

You know, I just can't help but keep returning to the solution of just checking out. It would be so much easier if I just died and then, of course, I wouldn't have to deal with all this pain and agony. It's just too much to handle.... I know my daughter is now happily married and across the country. She's the only one who would really care if I was gone, but she'd get over it in time. It's something I just keep returning to. I've heard it said that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem -- but my problem has definitely not been temporary. 25 yrs. of a difficult marriage, that has never been very good to begin with -- I can't seem to escape, now how hard I try. I know a lot of people are so against this, but why must we continue to endure such heart-wrenching pain and agony? jen

Jen,<BR> You'd put more pain than you know on your family and friends by"checking out".Don't even think about it.Think about all the good things in life that you'd miss.The simple pleasures that can make you smile.I know,I've been there.After my W had an affair,and left me,I thought my life was over,period.My marriage wasn't all good times,either-obviously.There were so many nights I woke up having nightmares about my W with another man,and then realising she WAS with another man-I thought I couldn't bear the pain.Sure,I thought about blowing myself away.But after the pain my W put on me,I couldn't do that to my family,my friends.Besides that,then my W would have won.She would of made me do the unthinkable,after she did the unthinkable to me.Do you see what I'm driving at?If you're that depressed,get to a doc,and get something for it(I was on Zoloft).It will help.Just because you're in a unhappy marriage at this point in time,doesn't mean you'll always be unhappy in life.Trust me,even after a bad marriage(or your spouses infidelity),LIFE CAN GET BETTER! --Murph