edited by claudia103<p>[This message has been edited by Claudia103 (edited March 12, 2000).]

I feel and I know your rage.<P>We've (betrayed's) have all felt it at various times!<P>Would a letter asking that she "be discreet" help... probably not.<P>Would it be a Love Buster... Yes... most likely it would be.<P>Does that mean you can't be honest with your H? NO!!!<BR>Do tell him how you feel when the OW says the things she says...<BR>Let your H know you are pained...<BR>You don't have to close yourself up in Plan A. What you have to watch is the angry fights that so often insue. The hardest part of being honest is to not let it escalate into a heated argument. This is so much easier said than done when either spouses is raw with emotion.<P>Consider your words very carefully, if you want to address your husband. Don't ket it escalate!<P>I feel for you...<BR>I too, know my W is in what seems to be a never ending fantasy land.<P>I'm praying for you. <P>Jim

Hi Claudia,<BR>Nothing to add to Jim's sage advice other than my own wishes for you to find strength and happiness in yourself.<P>Please read Jim's reply carefully. He's been exactly where you are at and has learned his best chances for reconcilation are in the Harley approach. This does not guarantee a happy ending for "2" (you & your H) in all cases but if your efforts fail, it will help ensure a happy ending for "1" (YOU), allowing you to take comfort in the fact that you did everything possible to work things out. <P>Cheers,<BR>Lisa

I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I don't have any advice to offer you except to remember to take good care of yourself and those precious children. Why many H do this...leave and only think of themselves....is beyond me. Many have a tendancy to think the children will be just "fine". Well from what I have expeirenced...that is not true. My girls are suffering just as much as me...but in their own way and on their own terms. It is so sad. I wish you the best and hope he comes to his senses soon.<P>God Bless You and those Children<BR>Nancy

Claudia,<P>You said it yourself when you wrote "he is the ultimate conflict avoider". Sounds like your H has avoided issues so long that he has actually lost himself.<P>What you need to remind him of is...1. it's easy to get into another surface relationship...but that doesn't last for long. 2. The new OW will expect him to communicate with her (if their relationship even gets that far)...and he'll do the same thing to her that he's done to you. 3. Because he won't have learned how to communicate properly.<P>Plan Aing and Bing are fine...but what eventually has to occur is Communication. Plan A helps set the ground for a reasonable amount of decompression time...meaning that you be nice to the betrayer so they feel comfortable attempting to talk to you again.<BR>But, what I found out is you can Plan A all you want...but both spouses need to learn how to communicate so the other will listen.<BR>The key is "so the other will listen".<P>I used to say the right things, but my H was so lost and had soo many stereotypes (most ungrounded)built up in his head...that he'd either tell me what I was going to say or assume I'd react a certain way...and NOT LISTEN. <P>There are many barriers to listening and my advice to you is to try and figure out what those barriers are that you both have. Are there certain ways in which you attempt to communicate- but don't really get across your meaning?<P>Try reading books on communication. I had read one book from Dr. Harley and had gone through printing up all of his online advice to hand to my H. We then were advised by our counselor to read Fighting for your Marriage. It's a very good book on communication. It goes through the 4 ways in which people fight when they should be talking...once you understand the cycle you are in... it's easier to try and stop.<P>Sometimes plan B helps- depending on the situation and the people. But when there are kids involved...I don't believe it is fair to them unless there is real abuse going on. <P>Even if you have to write a letter to your H to describe your feelings on how you want to set aside time to discuss things, etc...but do set ground rules to alleviate stress on your kids.<P>My sister was 6 when my folks divorced and she appeared fine until she started high school...then the "s" really hit the fan for her and our family...But kids and divorce are a whole separate issue.<P>I'll pray for you as you go through all of your decisions. <P>P.S. I can see the plus side to letting that office click know how much you love your husband and are willing to work on things with him...if that's what you decide. (sending roses..etc) I certainly wouldn't sit back and have the gossip making me out to be a jerk = making adultery an acceptable escape. (Do look at Dr. Harley's advice on Withdrawal...)<P>

Claudia,<BR>I got your reply to my post in the rocovery forum last night but I am so sorry but I was just to wiped out to reply last night. Probally a good thing I waited, sounds like you need some encouragement more today.<P>I also know what you are feeling. My H was also possessed and I couldn't help but wonder if the man I knew would ever return, but he did and better than ever too. I'd say that the chances that your H isn't real happy about her blabbing everything around are more than likely very high. Afterall, its like you said its a small town and he does have a repetation to think of.<P>Usually, when it gets real bad after discovery they want to escape from all but as we know they can't. Not talking about the situation is probally the best for now. Sounds like to me he has his hands pretty full with this one.<P>You say that you two have had a good marriage so I would not worry to much yet. In my H's case... the attention of another made him feel young again and like he still had "it" which is something that a man feels as if they loose. The overwhelming flattering feeling fades. His true personality will come back, believe it will. And when it does he will kick himself in the tail end over this.<P>When I was going through this, a very wise man told me that although he was smitten with this OW at the moment, I was in a much better position because of all of the time that I had been with him, and all that I had learned over the years. His likes and his dislikes, his good moods and bad moods and how to manage. I remember thinking at the time... that is so stupid because if that was the case... he wouldn't be with her. I WAS WRONG!!! As a matter of fact, I asked my once and he confirmed that that old white haired old man that I call dad was right on target.<P>I would not write him a letter but I do feel like you have the right to request that your name not be allowed to be drug through the mud so to speak. So here is my suggestion...<P>Keep your cool, even if he doesn't, don't lower yourself because you have done nothing wrong. We often treat the ones we love the most, the worst. Sounds stupid but actually we know that they love us and will understand and forgive us. Anyway...<BR>With no long discussion and no LB's, just simply say... Bob, Joe, Greg whatever his name is.... I am sure that you didn't have anything to do with this and you may be a little upset by it yourself, I don't know. And <BR>I know that we have problems and I really don't want to get into it right now and I am sure you don't either. But could I please make one small request... This is a small town and do people talk. I may have had my faults but I always loved you and still do and it hurts me and the kids to have our private lives be the topic of gossip. If you love and care at all can you please do what you can to control what is being said? That is all ask cause this is a hard situation for us all as it is. Can you please just do that much for us?<P>I don't think that there is anything wrong with that. Just don't fuss about it, don't yell, don't make judgements. And try to express some sympathy for how hard this is for him too. And make the attempt to make a pat between the two of you not to make it any harder on each other than it already is. And at least try to be considerate and respectful of each other. If not for each other sake then at least for the kids. <P>This will not be easy for him either.... you will do alot better in this battle if you can try to have some sympathy for him as well, whether he deserves it or not. <P>I hope that I have helped some. I do know how hard it is and I never thought that it would end but it does. Sounds more like a mid-life crisis than anything else. Although I know how hard it is to have faith... try! Have faith in yourself, you've been there for him and you've been good to him I'm sure. Although he may not be thinking that way now... he will remember in time. <P>Genie

Claudia,<BR> She's digging her own grave! Don't stop her. If her mouth runs enough,chances are H will see another side of her, a glimpse anyway. Meanwhile, keep plan Aing to the best of your ability and you'll come out smelling like a rose,while her filth makes her stinky!!!! You've said most everyone you know,knows about this anyway,don't fret about the talk.Keep your chin up and walk tall! He's the one to bear the shame.I think bringing this up is a big time LB and only makes you look like you're trying to control OW and "them". I can relate to the anger,but try your best to leave it somewhere else. Right here is a good place!!!Take care.

Hi Claudia,<P>First, let me say that my heart goes out to you. I have been on the rollercoaster nearly eight months now. So, I know what you are feeling and going through. But, I'm here to tell you, it can get better, your marriage can be restored, and you will make it through this. Just hold on tight. It sounds to me like you had a pretty good marriage until this crisis struck. That is definitely in your favor. Here are a few things I did to survive this and save my sanity:<P>1. I read everything I could get my hands on about affairs, midlife crisis, & male menopause. The odds of your H returning to you and the kids (especially if there are kids involved) are overwhelmingly in your favor. Don't forget that. OW is fighting the uphill battle, not you. Most affairs implode about 6 months after the day of discovery. Begin with all of Harley's stuff if you havent't already.<P>2. I felt myself unraveling so I got my butt into the doctor's office asap. I have been on an anti-dep (Zoloft) for about 7 months. It has made a world of difference for me. It has helped me to get a good night's rest. And right now, sleep is what you will need most in order to heal, & to make rational decisions.<P>3. I quickly surrounded myself with a support system. This MB for starters. Plus, I now have some really close friends (mostly women). One in particular who I call my Guardian Angel with skin. H had always been my best friend for over 21 years, so I didn't have close friends. I learned that I am still capable of making good friends, & it didn't take me any time at all. People, for the most part, are very considerate and will want to do anything for you when they discover what you are going through.<P>4. Although, I tried to remain positive about the outcome, I took some steps to remain in control of the situation. I met with an attorney to find out what my legal rights were and to find out about what the property settlement might be in this state, under these circumstances. I took H's name off my credit card. After he moved out, I had the locks rekeyed to the house. (This move turned out to have an added benefit of being a needed dose of reality for H.)<P>5. I made the decision that I would handle the situation as gracefully as I could. I did not let myself stoop to OW's level, as tempting as it was sometimes.<P>6. I began to focus on ME and my needs. This is quite a paradyme shift for most women as we are trained to be caretakers for everyone else and put our needs on the back burner. I relearned a great deal about what makes me happy. I am now much more focused on the present, and enjoying the moment rather than always looking ahead.<P>Anyway, it appears, for me, that finally the effort is paying off. Last night H was up again, and we had a wonderful evening together. This morning he asked me if it would be okay if he started to move some of his stuff back home.<P>Hang in there, Claudia. We will all help you as much as we can.

Thanks for all of your quick responses. I don't know where I'd be without this forum. I have no family. My parents died early in my marraige and there are moments now when I scream and cry for my mother.<P>His Mom has asked that I pretend she is my Mom but she is completely devasted by this as well. 'She has not spoken to him in months. Neither has his siblings, or if they did speak, it was superficial.<P>I am on antidepressants. Recently. I had a really hard time sleeping. They don't really take away the pain. I have been on my knees in prayer. Sometimes I pray every other minute to help me find strength.<P>My children, my children......They are so devasted. I'm, trying to find the strength for them. My 10 year old began wearing cloths she wore 2 years ago. I find myself on this forum every free moment I have now so that I can vent and be here for them.<P>Genie, I really liked the suggestion you gave for talking to him. I plan to use it. He has his counseling apt. this evening and will call afterwards to speak to the kids. I am planning to copy what you said so I can read it directly. I KNOW I can do it without LBing. I do need respect. My 10y.o. takes many dance classes with the children of these people. She will be in really bad shape if she hears it through one of them.<P>I am really hoping that I can hold this one off (meaning divorse and their marraige) until he wakes up. I know he is a good person underneath all of this. And I can tell you he is NOT doing any of the talking. It was SHE who told his office staff he was leaving me as it is.<P>I just bought Love Busters. and plan to read it. I know that I am a talker. You probably can tell that. I pretty much say what's on my mind and sometimes react alittle "enthusiatically". I have never screamed or yelled at my H. (THough I have at my kids some times), Never thrown things, or hit or stomped out, or slammed doors or swore. I want to do all of those things now. It always appeared to me that my husband was content with things here and that when he seemed upset I would get in his face alittle and make him talk. We also got along physically. We kissed and hugged every day in front of the kids. In fact he still hugs me in front of them. <P>What is that???<P>I know he is a conflict avoider and there are most likely issues that he has had for a long time, because he usually has issues about everything and everybody. I have simply accepted that about him. I have pretty much accetptd all of the negatives about him. In fact I used to say to people sometimes he might not do things the way I would have but if he did then he'd be me!!!!<P>I also believe that this is a midlife thing. But what if he really does want to live his life like a sheep??? I guess I can't do anything about that Huh!!!!<P>He has had tremendous stresses at work. This will make things worse and being the conflict avoider how will he get himself out of this one???<P><BR>I suppose they could simply run away. <BR>