Jo,<P>Re:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Do you really think I have anything to forgive myself for.? And I ask the question seriously. Compared to what my H has done, is a kiss in the same league<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Honey, you know the answer, don't you? Bottom line: you wouldn't be asking, you wouldn't be hurting, you would be merrily going on your way...<P>And don't forget, not that you can, but...<BR>He's married, so... yes, it is in the same league.<P>Sorry.<P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<BR>

Well, I'm glad that you have come to your senses.<BR>I can imagine how lonely and needing you feel, can see it in your posts. And I can imagine how these advances make you feel... it's almost as if there's 'promise' there, that succumbing, admiting that you don't care anymore and letting yourself go will allow all of your innermost desires to be satisfied. I'm not personally big on the whole 'satan on your shoulder' thing, but the image fits, only it probably doesn't feel like satan, more like desire, and heat, good 'wanting' feelings...<BR>But take it from me, because the lesson is still fresh in my mind. It's great up until it happens. Once those desires have been fed and sated, you are left with the realization of what you have done. The heat is gone and you will find you are shaking with cold of shame.<BR>Perhaps if you had not been so betrayed, you would not know about the pain your actions have caused, but you do know now and you cannot unknow. And once the deed is done, it's done and there's no going back to undo it. Is there?<BR>Thank you for bringing this here first... I think your conscience was doing you a big favor in this... sometimes we need friends to tell us stuff we already know.<BR>Deut<BR>

Jo,<P>Life on lifes terms sucks. There is no nice way to put it. Be good to yourself. When all this started for me I promised myself I wouldn't do any thing that I couldn't sleep with. Step back, give yourself a break. I have to make lists sometimes of why I am committed to my marriage. Sometimes they're long and sometimes they're real short. Only you hold those answers. <P>A little something that helps keep me going, it's only part of one of my daily readings<P>I asked God to grant me patience.<P>God said" No patience is a by-product of tribulations: it isn't granted, it's earned."<P>Thats a hard pill to swallow but it is true.<P>Hang In There and know we love you,<P>Bill

Soulloss'X,<P>thanks for responding. Have I come to my senses ?? I just want to do the right thing, for me, and for his wife. I know how badly this hurts. Does that mean that I have sense. I don't know.<BR>But, I don't WANT to care anymore. I don't want to care about my H, what he did, the betrayal, and the abandonment. <BR>It's happened, we can't undo it, we can't change it, and I think I just dont care anymore.<BR>I think I need to find a book about grief. Maybe this is another of the 12 steps of grief that I read about once (but can't remember the details of)<BR>I have wondered about sex with him. I thank you for bringing to my attention that all is rosy now, but what about after. I know that I am not strong enough to deal with guilt at the moment. I'm having enough trouble dealing with my H's behaviour and actions.<P>Thanks for caring<P>Jo

WilliamJ,<P>thanks.<P>I just tried to do a list, there was NOTHING on it. My mind wouldn't/couldn't think about it. It was just blank.<P>I read your quotes (about 8?) like the patience one you've just told me the other day on someone else's thread - I liked it a lot. I downloaded it, and try to read it every night. It made a lot of sense to me, and I could relate to it.<P>Life sure is revolting right now. Surely it can't get much worse for us here.<P>Take care of you, and thanks for caring<P>Jo

Jo,<P>for me, I DO think it is the same thing. I don't happen to think adultery is about degrees of the process. To me, adultery is like pregnancy...either you are pregnant or you're not. No degrees, there is no such thing as a little pregnant. And, there is NO such thing as being just a little bit adulterous (only a kiss). You crossed the line. Married women, do not invite men to their home, and they certainly do not kiss them...clothed or not!<P>And, being an American, perhaps I am just a wee bit tired of the very Clintonian-like "depends on the meaning of IS" defense that you are trying to use, to justify your behavior. If you want to be involved in an adulterous affair, that is your choice, but own up to what is going on. At least be honest about it, don't try and justify it with the "it's nothing compared to what my H is doing" stuff.<P>You have identified the problem, you are lonely. Perhaps what you need to do, is move back home. At least you'd have more of a support system there, and you'd have regular contact with your H. For a girl without patience, plan B will never work. You need to confront this head on. Think about moving back, and dealing with this differently. <P>Stay strong!<P>~skye<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by skye (edited December 02, 1999).]

Skye,<P>thanks for that bullet up the bum!!!<P>I hear what you are saying, but I just don't know if I agree at the moment.<P>I can, and will stop this right now (well, tonight when he calls) because I am not comfortable about his wife. I know the feelings, the hurt, the betrayal, and I do not want to be the cause of that for someone else.<P>I don't consider myself married any longer. I haven't since last week, when I found out that H was doing all the pursuing, and not her. I guess I told myself that while she was doing all the chasing and he was just too weak to say no, it made it a 'bit' easier to bear. He would come to his senses. Now, it looks as though he is going to have her, no matter what the cost.<P>I don't have much patience at the best of times, but that is one of the things that I am working on. I am realising that some things just CANNOT be hurried up, they will happen in their own time. I cannot make some things happen. I am learning to bide my time, and bite my tongue. About everything, not just my marital situation.<P>I don't know whether I am trying to justify my behaviour by saying a kiss is not as bad as sleeping with another. In my mind, a kiss is bad, and should not happen within the confines of marriage, however, there is nowhere near as much commitment in a kiss as what there is in sleeping with another. <P>I do appreciate your straight words, and I thank you for caring.<P>Jo

Jo, Hi. Don't know how I missed this the first time, I've been looking for you.<P>The numbness, trying to find feelings for your H. Don't worry about it. It's normal and it will pass. No need to try to force it at all. You'll be ok. Just keep w/ Plan B and hang in there. And be ready and braced for the next stage when it all comes crashing in.<P>Far as the other thing. Everyone else has said it. YOU have said it. He's married. Even if you DON'T feel married, he IS. And still at home w/ his wife. And most likely lying his butt off to you. Most of our spouses did, right? And even if he's not lying and he's miserable. He's still married and living at home.<P>There's no question here, Honey. You need attention and love and he showed up. That's scary. But you don't need those things more than self-respect and honesty. And, I know you, you can't let yourself be the OP. <P>So, buck up and walk away. There will be other, better things to ease the pain and the lonliness. You'll find them.<P>Remember we love you.<P>Lori

Hi Jo,<P>I'm late on posting to your thread so I won't just rehash the good things our friends have said here. But, I do want to post to reinforce what they've said.<P>We've gotten to know you as a really nice, caring person. You're in a very difficult situation right now and many of us know how hard it is to get thru this. We've been thru our own versions of it.<P>If I could share anything else with you it would be the encouragement to do the right thing. You'll feel better for it. <P>Getting involved with a married guy would not be right. It would not be right for you, your kids, him, her, anyone. Getting involved with ANY guy right now would not be emotionally healthy for you right now.<P>Anyhoo... hang in there. Keep posting to us. There's plenty of folks here you can lean on for support. You don't need a man in your life right now. Whether he's a saint or a sinner, doesn't matter.

Hi Jo: Thought I'd stop at your Post to check up on you. I apologize if my previous reply to you sounded so harsh. I just wanted to be honest and candid with you. I don't want you to make a mistake that you will deeply regret.<P>What may be a good idea is to write a list of pros & cons of what you will get out of seeing this MM. I can guarantee that the cons will heavily outnumber the pros. Everytime you get that urge to see that MM, pull out your list and remind yourself of those pros & cons.<P>Good luck in your Plan B. I'm sure that you still have loving feelings for your H. You are just so hurt and feeling numb. I think for now, it's time that you take care of yourself. Pamper, spoil and love yourself. Do things with your friends and family and keep busy. Keep reminding yourself that you are a stong and wonderful person. Hugs to you!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited December 02, 1999).]

Please be very careful. You are in a very hard spot. You know what is right and wrong, and now you can see how easy it is to be pulled in. I understand how wonderful it feels to have the attention again. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, only you can decide that. Just becareful. <P>------------------<BR>To thy own self be true.<BR>*Viki<P><BR>

thanks guys, for everything.<P>You are all right - my self respect is worth so much to me. I don't know where my head was at. It was so nice not to hurt. He stopped those feelings of hurt, but Skye said it best - you can't hide from it, and it (the pain) has to be dealt with.<P>I am so glad I found this site, and you guys. You all mean so much to me.<P>Oh well, - hurt - here I come for the next round !!! Dish it up, I CAN handle it.<P>Lostva, you are absolutely beautiful. I wish we could meet in person - you deserve the biggest hug from me.<P>Notrust - you didn't sound harsh, and it was what I needed to hear anyway. Thanks.<P>He didn't call last night - I guess he will today, and I'll do the right thing.<P>love and hugs to you all, and a big thankyou for picking up the pieces and setting me on the right path.<P>Jo<P>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Bonnet,<P>Three little words, "Don't Do It". Well, technically four. As was already mentioned, you are extemely vulnerable right now. Adding another married man to the mix will only cause more pain in the long run. If you must, stick to the single variety.

Jo, <P>Well, I'm late in responding. I've been a little messed up the past week or so. I read this entire thread, and my heart hurts for you. The advice you have received is right on the mark. Since you are saying your prayers at night, ask God to comfort you. He needs to hold you right now. Let Him direct you with what is right. <P>God bless you, <P>SHA

I know it is the middle of the night for you. But I know you will probably read this first thing in the morning. My prayers are with you. You know what you have to do all you wanted was our strength to help you through and you have it. I have thought about wanting someone to help take the pain away but all we are searching for is a quick replacement second best to what we really want. And we are worth so much more. Don't ever settle for second or third or fourth best. Take only the very best. You are strong and can put a stop to this. Keep us updated. Prayers and {{HUGS}} <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Sidney - thanks. I didn't. A married man would only make my situation 100 x worse. It was just so nice to feel wanted again. But so wrong. Thanks for your support and caring.<P>SHA - I have read your thread, I'm so sorry for what is happening to you. I did respond.<BR>I am praying so hard - not to know what's right or wrong, I know that, but for a sign from my H that he wants to come home. As Skye says, maybe this situation is meant to teach me patience, and I am learning. What a way to learn !!!<BR>I'm sending you big hugs, for you and your children, and many many thanks for caring. I'm also saying a prayer for you.<BR>You're a wonderful guy.<P>SDS - You're right, I did need strength from you all. But how selfish of me. You guys are all in the same boat as me, and have just as little strength left as what I do, and here I come along and take it. I'm so sorry for that. I don't want second or third best, you're right about that too.<P>AN UPDATE<P>He didn't call. Maybe he also sees the futility of this situation. I hope so. If, or when he does call, I will be telling him that this cannot continue, either by phone or visiting me at home.<BR>I feel very comfortable with my decision, I know in my heart it is the right one.<P>Thank you for being there for me.<P>Jo

Bonnet, You know the story in the Bible about the five fishes and loaves of bread. That when you have very little but share it with others it feeds a multitude. Don't feel bad about taken strength from us, I think the more we share the stronger we get. So glad it helped.Prayers and hugs<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Good girl, Jo! I'm so proud of you!!

Jo -<P>I am in your shoes. A married man has been persuing me, and in a weak moment, when I knew my H was with the OW I allowed him to kiss me.<P>I felt a lot of things: I could understand how easily someone can fall into this trap. But I didn't feel justified. I felt that I was no better than H and OW. <P>One night out for drinks and a little kissing and making out and that was it. Later at home when I knew H was with OW I felt nothing but shame and grief.<P>And the worst part is this guy works with me and WILL NOT LEAVE ME ALONE. All day long it's "Come on, just a little kiss", "Just tell me do I ever have a chance", always asking me out after work, etc. Extremely annoying but I started it!<P>And this guy is a serial cheater from what I gather. Today his wife came in with their little daughter for lunch and I couldn't even look her in the eye!<P>Praise the Lord I never took it any further and it's been several weeks now.<P>He tried to kiss me on the mouth today in my office and I am ready to tell him off big time. I don't think he would have tried that if I hadn't given him the "go ahead" by that first kiss. YUCK!<P>Plus he is always saying guys at work have a crush on me; here are all these guys who want me and my own H doesn't. Also he asks if we've "done it" yet, I foolishly told him how long it had been since my H has been intimate w/me. So each morning he thinks it's real funny to ask.<P>Didn't mean to stomp on your thread, but I can relate so well.<P>One stupid night and I feel less of a woman for it and it certainly didn't to a d**n thing for my relationship with H.<P>Take care Jo.<P>jt<P>

Jo,<P>I'm glad you decided to do whats right. Our self worth is all we have in these horrible times. I know how lonely I am. I never realised how badly I needed affection. I hope that noone trys to pursue me. I don't need the temptation. I don't want to have to deal with what Robin's going through. My life is bad enough, however I have a clear concience. That in itself gives me ALOT to be grateful for. Maintain your courage and strength, and I'll maintain mine.<P>Let's keep all going,<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>