To all spouses:Okay i may get some flack here about what I am to say but i need to say it anyways and it may help some of you,some years back i was feeling lonely and not connected to hubby,there were nights that i would go to bed he would climb in and roll over with out as much as a goodnight to me or an i love you which is something i always said and once i seemed to say it he would.I would cry and tell him for some reason i felt lonely(although he was right there in bed beside me)i said i didn't feel connected to him and that we should go talk to a counsellor but he said i would feel better after a good nights sleep but i never did.I would tell him that we would end up like his parents who were divorced,you would think that would be a wake up call but obviously it wasn't.I could write a book here about different things i wanted to do and he didn't.....i guess these were all like a slap in the face althought it wasn't physical and after awhile i resented him for this and didn't even really realise it,it seemed when ever we did something as a family that i was unhappy or yelling at him for dumb things,everything seemed to be ok with what i wanted and he never had much to say or an opinion etc....u know that old saying i say jump u say how high?Well thats exactly what hubby did and i always thought it was great but now i see it was the worst thing to do,he needed to have some input into this marriage and raising the kids and talk,thats the biggest thing,not just 1 word answers as he had most of the time.I don't want you to get me wrong here hubby is a great person but somewhere along the line we fell apart from each other,we were married young,he was my first boyfriend and i always wanted to have kids so thats basically what we did.This brings me to now although i know i forgot to say a lot of stuff i was going to i am sure i will think of it and add more later.Anyways i know i am married and i will be outright abaout this but i fell in love with another man who i feel is my soulmate and he is not married and never has been,we have been talking for a year and a half now and have met and we can talk so freely it is unbeleivable,i have never felt this connection with anyone in my life,like i said i know i am going to get dumped on by some of you but that is your choice as this is mine.I want to be happy and i haven't ever been this happy,it scares me that being married almost 18 years with 2 kids and i have never known such a deep love with hubby as i do now.I really think i have grown and hubby hasn't and this otherman is on my intellectual level which is what i need.Yes we have gone for counselling now,did the marriage encounters weekend which was weird cause i blanked on a few subjects such as thinking back to a time when i felt intimate and close with hubby...wow i honestly couldn't remember....i am going to counselling now and beleive it or not i was told it sounds like i have had an empty marriage,i am now going to a different counsellor and she told me i need to not worry always about what everyone else thinks and make myself happy for once..i don't want to hurt hubby or kids as they sure don't deserve this but do they also not deserve to see their mom happier than they have ever known her to be?Do i not deserve to be happy?I think that sometimes we marry for wrong reasons and stay together and are unhappy and then what?If i was to die today i can't honestly say i have had a happy marriage,i need more i need to feel that closeness and connection with someone.Damn it i am alive i want to livelife to the fullest,i once asked my hubby if he thought i would always be here even if i wasn't happy.he said yes..well that really bugged me........sheesh.....guess he thinks i am too weak to ever leave,well counsellor also told me that she thinks i made my mind up but can't seem to follow through with it...so we are now working on me....life is too short and i nned to do what i feel is best so please,please,please spouses take each other seriously if the other comes to you telling you they do not feel close do something about it cause sometimes its too late,if you don't feel respected by what you say you can't always get respect back and resentment forms......i know....been there doing that!So i am not sure where my road will lead but i will make sure whatever i decide to do with the help of counselling i will not look back with any regrets at all..thanx for reading........

Welcome <B>chatwithu35</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>Before I give you that post... I would like to make a few comments...<P>You are here for a very good reason...<BR>While you think you might be coming here for some level of approval... there may be an underlying need stronger than that... to save your family/marriage/self!<P>You will not get bashed here...<BR>You will find others such as yourself (Wayward Spouses... WS for short... aka "betrayers") who come here... and whether they want to admit it or not... see a small hope for there marriages!<P>All the things you've said are <B>VERY</B> typical of a WS having a "fantasy experience"... and all WS's vehemently deny the "fantasy" nature... but in all honesty... when the WS "comes out of the fog"(as we say)... they see it for what it is worth.<P>Your words...<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>who i feel is my <B>soulmate</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (btw... "soulmate" is a 4-letter word on this site... it has been so overused by <B>every</B> WS)... is the <B>single most</B> common statement of "fantasy!"<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>i have never felt this connection with anyone in my life<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... very "fantasy" oriented.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>thinking back to a time when i felt intimate and close with hubby...wow i honestly couldn't remember.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... is sooooo typical to push out as many if not <B>all</B> (good) feelings with your spouse.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...do they also not deserve to see their mom happier than they have ever known her to be?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... is a sooooo familiar line... my W said this to me and the kids after telling them "mommy is commirting adultery... and yes it's a sin... but...<I>(the quote you gave)</I>"<P>Do you deserve to be happy?... <B>OF COURSE</B>... we all do!<BR>One thing that is strongly stressed here is that the happiness you seek isn't to be found in your Spouse... much less in the OtherMan(OM)! <B>It is to be found in you</B>!<P>At this forum we encourage that kind of "personal growth" to waywards and betrayeds... to make your life better first. The affair will only supplant your H's failings with a future OM who will never be able to fulfill your needs in the end!<P>It is easy to spend time with the OM...<BR>No responsibilities...<BR>No kids... (he isn't married!)<BR>No day to day headaches...<BR>No indifference from your H!...<BR>...<B>this is a fantasy world</B>!<P>As far as counseling is concerned...<BR>... I hate to say it... but you've found a couple of the "traditional" narcisistic counselors that plague our society with the idea of "if it makes you happy... do it..." Their advice sounds<BR>so inviting...<BR>so rationale...<BR>so professional...<BR>...but it will destroy you...<BR>...easy is just that... <B>easy</B>.<BR>Try the couseling offered at MB's... <P>I feel we have a lot to offer...<BR>...to you too... a wayward!<P>Please do read my welcome post...<BR>...it is for <B>anyone</B> who wants to understand happiness in any kind of relationship!<P>I don't mean to be harsh... but it is a basic principle of all affairs... that we (WS and betrayed) all acknowledge and that is that... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>An affair is a very powerful addiction. (page 56 of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... one you have embarked on. Consider this more than just a possibility.<P>Now for my general welcome post... it has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P>For some clarity... a while ago... the "main" forum was divided into 4 separate "sub" forums...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Just+found+out...&number=29&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Just found out...</A>...for those new the forum... pre/post "discovery" of an affair or possible affair.<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Plan+A/Plan+B&number=30&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Plan A/Plan B</A>...usually after "discovery of the affair"...for those with questions of "what to do now?"<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=In+recovery&number=31&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>In recovery</A>...when a commitment to work on marriage by both spouses has begun.<BR>We are being asked to post the forums that make the most sense with respect to our questions/vents and not just dump everything into the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=General+Questions&number=28&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>General Questions</A> forum because it will give you the most responses! <P>Please do stay...<BR>We will not bash you... but we do have a specific purpose here... one that I know you will realize... "<B>Marriage Builing</B>".<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited March 07, 2000).]

Welcome.<BR> Obviously, you are trying very hard to make a good choice, and that is to be respected. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>i will make sure whatever i decide to do with the help of counselling i will not look back with any regrets at all <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Unfortunately, that is not realistic. Whether you leave or stay, there are always some regrets for "the road not taken."<BR>Most of us here are trying very hard to save marriages, and believe that with the work of both partners, that intimacy and magic can be there again. For most people, esp. those with children, the best answer is to work to regain those wonderful feelings within the marriage--an it can happen. <BR>Your feelings of your marriage having always been empty sound like everything said by every spouse in an illicit relationship. Ditto the "soulmate" thing. The outside relationship "shutters" down feelings towards your spouse (otherwise you'd likely explode!!). Most who manage to extricate themselves from the other relationship find that true.<BR>Hang around and read a bit--there's loads of good info here (both on the homepage and in the posts). Think about what you have to gain and lose. Think about whther it is not worth trying to make your marriage a wonderful place to be before you leave.<BR>Good luck--<BR>Kathi

chatwithu35,<P>I'm a former betrayer, so I can somewhat remember the mindset that you're in. I'm assuming that you have fallen for a person online (because of the nick), but you've met him in real life as well? I think it's common knowledge (around these here parts ) that affairs are based on an unreality - you don't have everyday activities (which most times are not exciting) with the OM, of course you're going to have all of those feelings for him, you're not happy in your marriage, you are seeing the OM for only the good things and not experiencing any realities with him. I don't mean to tell you what you're feeling here, but I spent every day with the OM at work, and all of the positives were emphasized dramatically and there were no negatives -- we always saw each other at our best because we were not involved in a true relationship. <P>Let me say this, a counselor that tells you to make "you" happy is not looking at the whole picture. What happens when and if you leave your husband and move in with the OM, and then you find out that you've given up your husband (and kids perhaps) for someone that you now don't care too much for? That's an awfully big decision to make (and advice given) on the presumption of making you happy for the moment. And as far as intellectual superior, come on. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, we can all expound on certain areas and work with our spouse to find topics and areas that could be intriguing to both. My husband and I had problem areas when it came to this (i.e. husband liked politics I didn't, I liked philsophy, he had no interest. We both compromised and have lengthy conversations about both). This all boils down to communication, and it can be done.<P>This is getting long, and that wasn't my intent, but I think you may need to re-evaluate the long term repurcussions of the decision you're about to make. Yes, I believe making the kids and family is number one priority, but who's to say that can't make you happy? I never really found happiness until I did that. Funny how you search for happiness, and it was right there all along. I would change counselors if I were you, and find one that will look at the big picture. One that is oriented toward saving marriages. I have a feeling you wouldn't be posting all you did here if you didn't want someone to advise against what you're thinking about doing.

I am a betrayer, have felt and said all of the things that you are saying right now. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. My W is now going thru this very same thing. I hurt her, and gave her much more pain than what you are experiencing with your H for over 1 1/2 years. Please believe me when I tell you that you are being deceived, just as my W is under attack right now. I don't think anyone could have put it better than what Jim has posted to you. You will find support, prayer and direction here. Talk to a christian counselor who has saving your marriage as his goal, and not what makes you happy. You are not the only one that needs to be happy. You have a Husband and children that deserve to be happy too. I had to learn this the very hard way. You need to distance your self from the OM. You will never be able to see your H in the right light or work on you, and on your marriage.<P>Read some of the material that is posted by Harley on this site, and read what people are saying here. You really are in a fantasy right now. <P>Take care

chatwithu,<P>Jim said it very well. But in the end, either you will or you won't. And there are always regrets.<P>I am the betrayed, but I am the one struggling now with questions about whether I can be happy in my marriage.<P>The basic premise here, which is very good common sense, is that two people can recapture the "love" if they begin to meet each other's deep emotional needs. And clams can learn to open up and talk. And workaholics can learn the importance of family and reorient their lives. My h is in the process of doing both.<P>So, the real question, is if you could have a really "in-love" relationship, wouldn't you want it to be with your h. According to the Harleys you can, and I can.<P>We are phone counselling with Jennifer Harley. If you truly want to give your marriage a fighting chance first, you could hardly do better than her. The 800 # is on the website. I haven't learned to do the links yet.

Wow. I can completely relate to what you posted. I have been there and done that. I have felt what you are feeling and I also turned to another man who I thought was my "soulmate". Soulmate...a word I have come to despise.<P>Based on my personal experience, I can tell you that you are living in a fantasy world with this other man. And, when reality finally does slap you in the face, you will feel a pain like you have never felt before. <P>When I was in the middle of my affair, it seemed that everything that my husband did or said was wrong or stupid or irritating. Everything that the other man did or said was wonderful and intellectual and amazing. <P>Find a good counselor. Stop seeing a counselor who will tell you only what you WANT to hear. You WANT to hear that it's okay to have an affair because you are miserable. You WANT to hear that it's okay to throw away your marriage. <P>I'm not trying to sound harsh. I am only trying to help. Before you dismiss me as a jerk who doesn't understand what you are going through, go back and read some of my posts. If you go back and read my posts, I think that you will be surprised at the similiarity of our situations.<P>I pray that reality will slap you sooner as opposed to later. If reality would have slapped me a little sooner, I wouldn't be in the mess that I'm in right now.<P>I will be watching for more posts from you.<P>I wish you peace, love and joy.<P>Jill<P>

One more bit of wisdom to think about.<P>This comes from another marriage counselor, but I believe the principle applies here as well. There are basically 3 stages to love. Romantic love, The Power struggle, and then Conscious love. (this is a Hendrix theory so I'm using his vocabulary) <P>I believe conscious love is very much like romantic love, but without the blinders. It's a type of love that few people get too because they have to walk through the fires of the power struggle first. Most give up, find someone new, fall in the blind romantic love again, and eventually end up right back in the power struggle. That's why statistics show that many who divorce do so multiple times. The other scary thing is that if you really take a close look at the people you are falling in love with they have pretty much the same basic faults. They hurt you in pretty much the same way. I would bet money on the fact that if you continued to pursue the OM he would eventually dissatisfy you in the area of affection as well. Your husband does have the ability to change this. He is also the best opportunity for you to get your needs met. You need to know what they are, and then you need to teach him.<P>From what I've read you've tried to some degree. It sounds like you approached it pretty much the same way I tried to approach getting my needs met. With disrespectful judgements. I also told my husband (as a matter of fact less than two months after being married) that if he continued making the decisions that he was making we'd end up divorced. I was right, but being right is little satisfaction. The thing is I missed half of the equation. If I didn't stop making the decisions I was making we'd end up in divorce. I thought I was being open and honest with him. Honesty is good, but honesty also needs to be expressed with the others feelings in mind. There is a way to ask for what you need that is nonthreatening, and respectful.<P>You do have the right to be happy. Any counselor who tells you this is telling you the truth. Don't be deceived though. Making the decision to stay with your husband does not dismiss happiness. I've done alot of reading from a lot of different sources, and I am now of the opinion that my best chance at happiness is with my husband. My psyche knew what it was doing when I fell in love with him the first time.<P>Some questions to consider.<P>Is your husband willing to grow? (if he's in counseling with you that answer is yes.)<P>Are you willing to grow?<P>Do you want to reach that level of conscious love, or are you happy constantly recycling through romantic love and then the power struggle?<P>This site has some excellent resources for what to do once you have made the decision to work on your marriage.<P>If you want to know where my line of thinking has come from....<P>This site, and the books sold here.<P>"Getting the love you want", "Keeping the love you want"-Harville Hendrix<P>"Men are from Mars/Women are from Venus"-John Gray<P>The Bible

Well so far i have gottem many replies to my post and i want to thank you all but i also want to clarify a few things okay.First of all i don't agree that why i am here is because i am looking for someone to say stay married don't do it,i am here because first of all it is a forum and i don't know of any others to go to.Second of all i know there are others like me who are scared to post because the name MARRIAGE BUILDERS scares them and they feel they will be bashed for saying how they feel,i want them to know they are not alone.I am sorry and could be wrong but i do not agree i am in a fantasy at all,this is called reality,talking about the future,things we want to do,from the simplest such as walking etc...damn i used to ask my husband to walk with me he would say ask daughter to walk....like i said there were all a slap in the face to me.I know for a fact if i were to ask him to walk tonight he would jump at it he is desperate.I have so much resentment for him and have way before otherman was in picture,i care about him as we have shared many years together and had 2 kids but i don't even know if i like him,so many things he does make me mad i nag him constantly and remember this started way before otherman came along.I also beleive people can change in some ways such as helping more around the house but to be quite honest how can you make someone talk?You can't,some are born with the gift and others are not,hell i know more about other mans growing up than i do of hubby's,his parents divorced and when i would ask about him he would say i don't have a dad,talk about another slap in my face!This otherman in my life his parents are also divorced but we have talked about it more than once,nothing to hide there at all.I could go on and on of things i have done over the years,i am a real romantic person and have planned many things but never got any back to me,well i will await your replies once again and i will reply to those also.....thanx again.....

Janice:<P>I'll "bash" you...<P>You've been here for over a year. Doing the same old stuff---continuing an affair.<P>Have you followed Harley's "Four Rules for a Successful Marriage?" No. You needed to eliminate lovebusters from your behavior, you needed to meet your husband's needs, you needed to spend time with him, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, you needed to BE HONEST with him.<P>I understand that you've tried pieces of this at various points in your marriage, but you've pretty much taken the "path of least resistance" and not been consistant in your efforts. That doesn't excuse your husband's neglect of the marriage---but two wrongs will definitely not make a right.<P>Your relationship with the OM is EXACTLY a fantasy. And although you vehemently deny this, it's exactly what an addict would say about their heroin addiction. You're addicted to the OM, and regardless of what anyone says, you know better. You're dating this OM right now---what could be easier. There are no worldly pressures on you (except discovery, and that gives you an adrenelin rush), and this relationship is "perfect".<P>Janice---it's not perfect. If you leave your husband to go to your OM, you'll find it's wonderful (at first). And then suddenly there will be conflicts. And you haven't learned any skills yet to deal with these conflicts (from what I can see). And your OM, who is willing to have a relationship with a married woman, will be bound to be lacking in relationship skills. You'll fight. Your children will be unhappy. This will add to the pressure. You'll end up wondering just exactly what the hell happened.<P>This happens all the time with affairs. You're not unique---you're not a "one-in-a-million". This is bound to happen. It usually does---there are very few successful relationships that stem from affairs.<P>What you need to do to prevent this disaster from happening is to learn and practice Harley's "Four Rules for a Successful Marriage". And since you have children, you ought to be doing it with your husband. That means dumping the OM. And your counselor who's telling you to "chase your happiness"---that's certain to lead you down a path of self destruction. You need to be honest with your husband. You need to learn the skills to be a good wife. He needs to get on board with the program too---and counseling will almost certainly be necessary.<P>In regards to your message of "your spouse should listen to you"---that's right on the mark. And if you ignore your spouse for too long---this situation you're facing is often the result. But you too have choices---and you've been making the wrong ones for quite some time. I'd suggest that you reevaluate your counselor, and try someone (like Jennifer or Steve Harley---888-639-1639) who can counsel you in a pro-marriage fashion.<P>If you can't save your marriage through this process, at least you will have tried and learned the skills to become a better marriage partner. And after you heal from a divorce (if that's the outcome), you'll be better suited for finding a "real" relationship that's not based on lies and fantasy.<P>

chatwithu35,<P>Please listen with an OPEN MIND as I tell you something. Keep your shields down.<P>Dictionary Definition: self-justification<BR>------------------------------------------<BR>"self-justification: the act or fact of justifying oneself, esp. of offering excessive reasons, explanations, excuses, etc."<P>Please re-read your post and remove the self-justifying comments. What's left? <P>Please understand that any emotional capital spent on the OM was at the expense of your H. <P>Does your H need improving? Sounds like it. But that does not excuse your relationship with OM. Don't compound your mistake by indulging in self-justification. His flaws do not offset your poor response. It is a natural human tendency, but it is not healthy and will not help you.<P>Do yourself a HUGE favor. Read Jill's posts. <P>Keep reading posts here. You may not always like what you hear, but you need to hear it.

Can a man who has never been one to talk learn to talk? Yes. My husband has an introversion factor way off the scale. (That means he's really really shy. Almost hermit shy) He has never talked. In rare moments of vulnerability while we were dating he would open up, and I'd feel wonderful. I knew what trusting me like that meant. I fell in love with him because of those moments of conversation. (Other reasons too.) Anyway, we have had numerous talks about my need for conversation, and I recognize what it is in my behavior that helps him open up, and hinders him opening up. Alot of times it's nothing more than meeting some of his needs. (Recreation, admiration.) He recognizes that this makes me feel loved, and so he goes out of his way to ask me how I'm doing. I ask in turn. This takes time, patience, and a willingness for both partners to learn what makes safe communication. Have you thought about the ways in which you speak to him? I had this image of this big strong man who could take my verbal abuse. He was inpenetrable. Wrong. Men are affected by the tones, inflections, and word choices we use just as much as we are affected by theirs. If you always come acrossed as "You don't do this for me" instead of "I feel this way when this happens, and I would feel this way if you did that" you are going to put him on the defensive. Noone likes to be the blame of another's unhappiness all the time. If he never hears how he does make you happy after awhile he will give up. Stop trying to meet your needs. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy. Why try when your going to fail anyway?<P>Anyway, marriage problems are never one sided. You may have wanted him to do something about it all along, but the only person you ever had control of was yourself.<BR>That fact remains constant whether you move on to a new relationship or not. I sympathize with the lack of communication. I sympathize with the lack of affection. These are great needs of mine as well, and when they are not being met, I too get frustrated. I too feel my love wane, but when it comes to getting my needs met I am the one holding the reins. A horse won't travel where it's supposed to go unless it's guide is sending the right signals.

Chat,<P>I am not going to bash you but I am going to ask you "Why are you here?"<BR>Although this section is for discussing infidelity the website is "Marriage Builders". There are many websites and discussion forums on the internet that are simply for infidelity and dealing with that.<BR>Maybe somewhere deep down you want to save your marriage. Is this at all possible?<BR>Can you think back to the very early days of your courtship when your H asked you to marry him, why did you say yes? Didn't you think back then that this was the ultimate love of your life, your "soulmate"? Yes you were young and maybe didn't understand "love" very well but the feelings you had then are just as "real" and "deep" as the feelings you have for OM. You said that sometimes we marry for the wrong reasons. Well don't you think that a marriage that comes from a relationship that was wrong in the first place is marrying for the wrong reasons?<BR>I am not trying to bash you, really I am not. I just wanted to give you something to think about. Please don't take what I have said in the wrong way. I don't think you shoukld leave this board I just think you should really consider why you are here.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole <p>[This message has been edited by Patient Love (edited March 07, 2000).]

Don't mean to rain on your parade,but....just a little dose of reality.You say your boyfriend has never been married?Does he even have any idea what it's like to make a commitment like that,for life?Does he have integrity,is he upright and honest?I don't know,he's fooling around with another man's wife,right?Maybe if you two get married,he'll fool around on you.Maybe if you get married,he'll start to wonder if you might start fooling around on him,like you did on your husband.Perhaps you'll start to nag him like you did your husband,and then you may be getting divorced all over again.You are in a good forum right now.Listen to what people who have made these mistakes are telling you.Go back,and read several posts here.Realise the pain and cruelty of adultery.Realise that that OM is just a man like your H,and could end up being worse.When people tell you that you are living in a fantasy,they don't mean that you're not in love.They don't mean that,but realise that there are different kinds of love.The passion and excitement you always feel for someone new will pass.Then you have to get down to reality,and making the marriage work.Why do you think there are so many divorces?So many broken homes,and hurt children?If you come to this forum,try to learn from it.Understand what you are going through.You can't make a marriage work with a third party in it.You will compare your old,boring,critical H to the OM,and he'll lose everytime.He has stayed with you for 18 years,maybe your new"soulmate"won't stick around for the next 18 years.Think about that.Maybe your marriage is dead.Read the articles here,see if you can improve it,if not,then divorce should be your last option.Then you're free to find a soulmate.Just my two-bits worth. --Murph

Chatwithu,<P>Welcome to the marriage builders forum. Many of us are here exactly for that reason, to save or build on our marriage. That is why I came here. Over the time I have been here, I am in a stage where I gave up on my marriage but am here to learn and grow just the same. I will not bash you in any way so feel free to read on but I will offer you some comments and suggestions.<P>I read your post twice, to be sure I got it all correctly. I understand that you were unhappy for a while. But how come you weren't strong enough back then to just up and leave? Why did it take meeting this OM to do it. Just curious.<P>I am the betrayed in my case, so I have a lot of hard feelings. I can say that I felt my marriage was pretty good. Not perfect, but I would have spent the rest of my life with him. I had no idea of what was going on.<P>I can tell you that when your H finds out, no matter how dead your marriage is, he is going to feel pain. He is going to be in a lot of pain. You might want to refer him to our forum as well. <P>You can offer a lot of insight to many of us as to what its like "on the other side", but the wording in your posts will attract different responses. One person replied already noticed the self justification of it.<P>I don't agree with a counselor that says do what makes you happy. Its not just about you, its about everyone in your life. If we all went around doing what made just us happy, the world would be a very selfish place. When my life fell apart, not only myself, and 3 kids life , but everyone around us has been rocked from this. <P>I would suggest that you think long and hard about OM. I know he seems like a prince right now. But he hasn't been in marriage, I wonder why? If you have been married a while, and I assume he might be around your age, why hasn't he been married. And can you trust someone that would get involved with a married woman, more importantly, will he be able to trust you down the road.<P>Just questions to think about, I am not asking you to reply on them. There are a lot of us in pain here, the forum is open to anyone who decides to use it. We all take the risk of getting bashed, or as many here call it "flamed" by the way we word our post and also how we reply to others as well. <P>I first went to about.com and was on the divorce support forum. There are a lot of wonderful people there and you may find some peace and comfort there as well. If you go, tell them "june" sent you (I am june over there). <P>It was brave of you to speak out. Think about sticking around a while, but take some time to read as many posts as you can. Read about this from all angles and take a look at what it feels like on the other end. <P>Take into consideration that I think it was 2 or possibly 3 betrayers took time to write to you here. They all went through this, and I am sure, felt the way you do now. Many of them, have gone on to find the shoe is on the other foot now and are in pain also. Or they realize the OP was really a result of a problem within themselves, and that you tend to pick apart the marriage once you find something better.<P>The only thing I have a problem with is, you didn't leave before the OP came around. That really doesn't sound like a strong person to me. Read the book True Lies by Dr Pittman. This book exposes affairs, and breaks down the success rate you can expect. Like they say its a very long long shot. <P>Prayers are with you, keep posting and get to know us, so we can all help each other here. Dana<BR>

Just another thing to think on on the happiness scene.<P>If momma ain't happy, ain't noone happy.<P>Counselors help us to achieve that happiness because it is basically the main reason for existance. Why exist to be miserable?<P>That being said, often one vision of happiness can blind us to a truer form of happiness simply because one route takes more time, hard work, and patience. We have all heard of the fast food approach to happiness.<P>I want it and I want it now. That happiness is often fleeting. Yes this sounds selfish, but all of us (even the most giving of us) live for our own happiness. We do the things that we do because we are rewarded for them. I am a betrayed so yes I understand the part of me that says my husband needs to be miserable because he made a committment to me. Doesn't he think of my feelings? The thing is loving him means I would never want that for him. As painful as it is to realize, I want him to be happy even if it is not with me. Persuading him to stay meant I needed to show him I could make him happy. Yes he could have been more honest with me to begin with. Maybe then the love bank wouldn't have depleted so low. Yes what he did was hurtful, selfish, and unloving. Their are two parts to an affair, and it does all boil down to happiness.<P>When a counselor says "do what makes you happy." They are not necessarily advocating leaving a marriage. They say think about things, and make the decision that is right for you, because you are the one who has to live with it.

Janice,<P>When I got onto the forum today...<BR>a few posts hit me <B>real hard</B>...<P>Yes...Jill's... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001404.html" TARGET=_blank>I have a few questions about revealing my affair to my husband...</A><P>but even more so...<BR>Woozy's... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001120.html" TARGET=_blank>My 7 year old son broke my heart this morning... </A><BR>...and...<BR>Claudia's... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001409.html" TARGET=_blank>what do you tell the kids when you get tough??</A>.<P>I encourage you to click on these links(the underlined words)... and reflect!<P>Even the slightest pangs of guilt imply something...<BR>...a fantasy world destroying a real world.<BR>A very devastating destruction at that.<P>You have the opportunity Jill is desparately seeking...<P>And you know what...<BR>...we can and will give you equal support...<P><B>That's why we're here!</B><P><B>K</B> came down on you hard...<BR>I've come down on other's I love here hard sometimes too...<BR>Why on God's green earth do we do this?????<BR>...because the messenger reached our wayward spouses... a little too late!!!!<P>Don't close us out as <B>your</B> messengers...<BR>...guardian angels is how I refer to these people on <B>this</B> forum...<BR>...there is a good reason for it!<P>We love you...<BR>...we are reaching out... please reach back. <P>Jim

Well just thought i would say nothing really new here and i have had a busy weekend so wasn't on here at all,i am still in same old situation here wanting to be with other man but not wanting to hurt kids or anyone else involved but i know either way it will happen.If i decide to stay i will be in the exact situation i am in now which is a lonely person who doesn't feel that connection to my husband but stayed in it for the kids,but when do i count,i mean when do i get to be happy?Anyways i will keep reading and posting and see what happens hope you are all well............;-)

Dear Chatwithu: Don't get discouraged. I have walked in your shoes and as much as I hate to tell you this, the others are right. I am still suffering withdrawal symptoms from the OM, but the funny thing is when I am with my spouse, I feel safe and relaxed. I know my spouse very well and yes, he didn't make major changes until after I threatened to leave him. You can teach an old dog new tricks including this old dog. My spouse can't be held totally responsible for the dysfunction in our marriage. My latest OM did all the things my spouse wouldn't and I felt comfortable with him. He would talk to me, encourage me and make me feel great. However, there were some things that I found myself comparing him to my spouse with. I tried to ignore it, but those thoughts kept creeping up. We finally broke it off because the OM said all the traditonal things that would prohibit us from getting together permanently. I heard: I can't leave my kids without a father, My spouse would come after him, blah, blah, blah. Oh well, what did I expect. Like you, I was fortold the outcome and it has come to pass. He still is a good friend of mine because he is a good person to talk to, but now I am trying to work with my spouse in communicating our thoughts etc... I want that same connection with my spouse so I can let OM go. Plus, I now know that I was nothing but a challenge for the OM to conquer. That hurts. I want OM out of my life. I feel that he is a painful weight as I am trying to keep myself afloat mentally. <BR>I can't tell you to give up your OM; that will be your decision. But be aware that you could get burned and that hurts worse than what you are going through with your spouse. Don't be so quick to give up on your spouse. You did love him once and the pilot light can be restarted. If your marriage is over, let it be because of irreconcible differences and not because of the OM. I don't want you to go through the painful heartache that I and so many others have experienced. No matter what your decision, you will have a friend in me. I will not pass judgment on you. My love and prayers to you.

If you had said that you had 3 kids I would have accused you of being my wife. As I read your story I say myself over and over. Your husband needs a wakeup call. Your already in a emotional affair and I would stop there and tell your husband before proceeding.<P> Now, My wife told me (At least she ready thought she did). She made the statement "Why is that other men notice me and you don't". All this did was make me try harder at doing the wrong thing. I mean after all I had a familty to support. My point is this YOUR HUSBANDS HEAD IS NOTHING BUT CONCRETE. You will need to spell it out in black and white. Tell him "I AM IN LOVE WITH ANOTHER MAN !!!!!!". It may sound stupid but husbands are like little kids that need to be taught in some cases. My wife's affair was a wake up call and a half. She helped me and I started to work full time on being human. Today after 7 months my wife and I so much in love IT IS FANTASTIC. You can there but you will have to work at it.<P> Also, you are in a fanstay world. My wife thought the same way but look at where we are today. This OM is only filling in the voids your husband has created. I created holes and my wife's OM was more then willing to fill these voids.<P><BR> PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE before it takes another step and becomes a sexual realtionship give your husband the change to make things right. Remember you originally marriaged him for a reason. One more thing, it was only a few months ago that my wife would talk about how she hated our relationship since before we even meet.<BR>