Well as usual thanx again for replies to my post,i am not sure what it is i am looking for hereif anything at all.I feel i am just wanting to tell my story and how things happen,i told my husband everything and he knows it all,i think this is not a fantasy and i will say it until i am blue in the face ,i guess it is hard for anyone to understand how other man and i both feel about each other as none of you know us,i would also be skeptical if i heard a friend of mine or family member was in love with someone they met once and to top it all of especially meeting on a computer,after all we have all heard horror stories and like everything else in life we eem to only remember the negative and not the positive.All i want out of life is to enjoy the company of my partner and respect them and love them and feel that connection to them which i feel is so important,i don't want to feel lonely when i am with them as if that is the case i should have stayed single forever.I am in such a dilemna here wanting to spend the rest of my life with this other person but yet there is that part of me holding back in fear of hurting kids and hubby,not to mention family and friends.I can think back to hubby and i going out to supper and not having anything to tlak about which was very uncomfortable as i was aware of everyone else in restaurant talking,then here we sat looking like fools,like i have said i could write a book on dissapointments in my marriage and yes i ave told hubby time and time again about them but i truly believe some people are born with the gift to talk and some aren't.....actually in this case i am not even sure if thats the problem i think it is more that we are not on the same intellectual level at all,we would get along better as friends than living together i think,ok i know i probably sound confused but this is so hard to explain,thank god i go to counsellor tomorrow........oh well thats it for now thanx again..........;-)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B>i told my husband everything and he knows it all,i think this is not a fantasy and i will say it until i am blue in the face ,i guess it is hard for anyone to understand how other man and i both feel about each other as none of you know us</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Chat, have you actually looked your husband in the face and said, "I am in love with another man and I am going to be leaving you soon"? If your marriage has been in trouble for a while, your husband is probably tuning out most of your complaints. He may not understand what is really getting ready to happen to life as he knows it. <P>As for your feelings that you are not living in a fantasy, your first post read like a script for the typical person in an affair. Don't believe it if you aren't ready to, but your relationship with the OM isn't special and rare, it is ABSOLUTELY AVERAGE AND RUN OF THE MILL for people in affairs. When I first came here, I was stunned by how many spouses said and did the exact same things my H did. How could they know all this stuff?! It was because most of these situations have so much in common. My H said the same things you say about your relationship. By some miracle, God gave me the patience to wait it out and now, almost three years later, it is painful to watch him when he talks about how deluded and unreal his thinking was at that time.<P>One more thing - don't assume that your husband is not as intelligent as you are. Obviously this didn't bother you for years or you would never have married him in the first place. I have a friend who treats her husband like this and it is painful to see it happen. They are both smart, but she has one kind of intelligence and he has another. Needless to say, their marriage is on the rocks. <P>Sorry if this message constitutes bashing, but I felt I had to say these things. Only you can decide what to do. I don't post much here, but I read the board almost every day and I can tell you that the good people here will be glad to help you work through your feelings so that you can make the decisions that are facing you.

Some more to think about.<P>Why did you fall in love with your husband? What things did he do early on in your relationship that made you feel good about yourself?<P><BR>What do you think marriage is supposed to be? What is a good wife? What is a good husband?<P>Of that list of things that make a good marriage, what is already happening in your marriage?<P>So many times it's easier to focus on the negative when there are good things happening. Part of the reason so many advocate cooling it with the OW/OM is that the answers to these questions are so important to making a rational decision. It's very hard to take an objective look at your husband and your marriage when you're pining for another. You'll want to compare, and that won't lead you to a true picture. Both men are capable of meeting some of your needs, and both are capable of hurting you. Right now though you will see the needs the OM can meet, and the hurt your husband can inflict. It's not a balanced vision. That's why so many call it a fantasy.

Chat, I am glad to see that you told your husband. Now keep us informed and everyone will be more then happy to help. Also your husband may find it helpful to use one of these forums.<P> Onto the subject of how great your relationship is with this other guy. Last year my son ended up going to see a shrink for awhile and one of the things I never ready thought about is this. These "Friends" "Lovers" what type of test have they really had to go through. Most Friendships and lovers never really get tested. Think about this HOW HAS THIS OM BEEN TESTED. Your husband won't come out smelling like a rose but that is a different topic. I think if you HONESTLY (my wife couldn't for the longest time) look at this affair you'll find it is not based on all of your needs. When your sick do you go to him. When you have money problems do you consult him. How about family matters with relatives, when was the last time you and the OM talked about these. If there is one thing I learned after going though this is that to get a woman that is in a bad relationship all you need to do is listen. It is easy for the other guy to take his position after all he only needs to agree with you that your H is a jerk.<P>Chat, Please try and take an honest and real look at this relationship. Also give us more details on how things are going between you and your husband.

Well as usual i want to thank you all for the replies,i read each and everyone of them with interest.I do understand that when a counsellor says be happy that they are not implying to leave a relationship,but after asking me all kinds of questions about different issues both counsellors i had could see i was in an empty marriage,maybe for other people it would be happy but for me personally it was very unfulfilling for my needs.I have felt lonely far too long and not having that whole connection i feel with this other man,i know that an affair is a sympton of marital problems and not a cause,like i have mentioned i did talk to my husband years ago telling him how i felt,that there was something missing in our marriage but i never knew what,all i knew is it didn't feel right for me,i didn't feel happily married.Of course after meeting someone i could carry on a conversation with about anything and loved so dearly i then found out what it was i was missing,the passion i didn't feel towards hubby,and by passion i don't mean sex at all,i mean the whole feelings toward him.To getting better,you bet i talk to other man about money problems,family matters and if i don't feel good,i talk about my kids or he asks about them....i hate to say it but No we definitely do not talk about husband at all being a jerk as husband is not even close to a jerk,otherman knows hubby has been good to me but i need more than a man helping me clean our house,sure thats great but i need more,i need a partner.I have never said my husband is not intelligent i simply said he is not on same intellectual level as i am,this is hard to explain but what i mean is i am a talker and i can not carry on a conversation with him that interests me at all.To Beth:Why did i fall in love with my husband.....well i was 17 met my first boyfriend who was a nice guy,isn't that what we are to do,marry a nice guy?Only to find out later we both grew but not together....i look back and i guess we were busy raising kids but now that kids r older and we r not as busy i am lonely and hubby simply doesn't fulfill my needs.What do i think marriage is to be...thats an excellent question,i think marriage should be 2 people who totally love each other and respect one another,i can not sya i respect hubby at all,in fact i treat him bad and have for soooooooo long now but he lets me,i am not saying this is right but i admit to doing it.There is no definition of a good wife or good husband,i have a good husband who helps me around house but there is more to a marriage than that wouldn't u agree?I did stop contact with otherman a few times but how normal is it to miss someone so much that you don't want to even live?I don't want to hear this is an addiction because i am willing to bet that it isn't at all,it is too bad that not everyone can meet their partner in life that is so right for them like i did,wish it would have happened 20 years sooner but it didn't and now we all have to deal with the outcome.....anyways i know i was rambling so i will sign off for now and hope all are wll....;-)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I did stop contact with otherman a few<BR>times but how normal is it to miss someone so much that you don't want to even live? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hate to tell you, but you are textbook again.<BR>But, no one in the midst of an affair thinks they are..they all think it is unique and special and true love. 5% of the time, they are right...as for the other 95%...

To KAM6318:Well i am curious what makes you think I might not be the 5%? Just wondering?Like i said i guess this probably is not the place as this is called marriage builders and most of you people are just interested at staying in a relationship at any cost,including happiness...i happen to feel i am a smart person and not willing to settle with just being comfortable like an old shoe but i need to be happy and have that intimacy feeling,and again i do not mean sex,life is wonderful and can be even better if you are with the right person so people please stop and think for awhile,are you scared to make a change and settle in a relationship because it is easier to do it than make changes and save face,well i am getting stronger every day and life is too short to not feel the best you can feel and when you die people are not going to say......look at the kind of person she was she split up her family but rather will remember you as the kind of caring person that you were......i am serious stop saying u need to like yourself be4 u can like another,do any of u even know what that means?I love who i am and i know i am a well liked person,i am caring thoughtful and thats why this is a hard decision for me i do not want to hurt anyone but by treating hubby like i have been isn't that worse,he deserves to be treated better and i want my kids to see a loving family that has fun together and not 1 like the simpsons which is mine reminds me of when we do something as a family..uuughhhhh I am alive damnit and i want to spend the next half of my life better than i did the first........thanx for reading.......

If OM is so great why don't you leave your H already!!? You have been posting at this site for at least 6 months now bemoaning your fate. You are so right your H deserves a lot better than you. And please change the title of your post. Your musings are not the "facts" there are only your perception of your very narrow idea of reality.

Chat,<P>If everything is so wonderful, why are you here? You know the odds are 95% that you are wrong and we know it too.<P>We also know that someone who willfully treats there spouse poorly and has no regrets, is very unlikely to be a good spouse to the next person.<P>We know you do not believe that marriage means commitment.<P>We know you don't believe in doing hard work. "I told my H there was something wrong with the marriage, but I didn't know what it was". You expected him to fix something you couldn't define and you wouldn't spend the effort to identify.<P>You claim great intelligence because you cannot talk with your H or you find it hard. Most people of great intelligence find it possible to talk with anyone, because are broad enough to discuss many topics.<P>In short Chat, you want out and you want it your way with no effort and no pain. Well then do it. You have nothing to learn from the poor people here of meager intelligence. <P>What you have failed to grasp is that most of the people here actually love/loved their spouse. They know what commitment means and they know what love means. They feel it is worth fighting for. You do not.<P>Go do your thing then.<P>JL

Dear Chatwithu35,<P>If you had an unhappy marriage before the other man came into the picture, why didn't you divorce husband then? Why bring another man into the picture. why did you not try and fix the problem before? Is husband just unwilling? <P>What are you going to do when you decide for a life with OM and reality sets in, you know, the everyday mundane things? Will you then realize that you should have tried with your H?<P>Just some questions to ponder over....<P>Pam

Chat:<BR> Sure, you might be in the 5%...somebody has to be. But, the chances are strong that you are not. Say for a minute that you are not (and wouldn't a crystal ball be handy about now ) ...your chances of igniting romantic love with your husband, IF you get the OM out of the way, and if you and he are willing to work at it are pretty darn good. There are a lot of folks who've been thru this and found a much richer, deeper love than ever imagined possible with their spouse. <P>I simply believe in going where the chances of finding lasting happiness are strongest. I believe in raising my children to honor commitment. I believe in not tearing their world apart. And, lo and behold, my H and I are falling in love again...not yet 100% where I'd like it, the road is not yet smooth, but definitely falling in love again. <P>Get rid of the OM, work with your H on identifying the needs and desires not being met in your marriage, work with him, and see what happens. Give it 6 months of honest work, and see what you can accomplish. What do you have to lose? <BR>

I must be in a posting mood... been awhile...<P>Okay, listen...<P>Even I, who have lived through four of my H's affairs and one of my own, realized that the relationship with OM would never work. Yeah, I loved him, yeah, I didn't love my H, yeah, things still aren't great, but jeez... do you really think it could work? You would stake your life on 5%... really? Oh, and by the way, still a twinge of love for the OM over in my heart, but love for H is gaining strength, despite all we've endured... it *can* happen, you know? <P>If it's so bad with your H, and only you know if it is, then leave him. But not for the OP. <P>And you're gonna have a hard time justifying it here - marriage <B>builders</B>... you know? If I left my H for the OP, I sure wouldn't post about it here... that takes guts!<P>Not judging your decision re: your marriage, just the validity of posting about it here... <BR>

Chat,<P>You have the wonderful gift of being able to make up your mind to do whatever you want to do with your life. If you wanted to divorce your husband and go off with your "soulmate", you probably would have done that long ago... but you spent your time here, with a bunch of people trying to save marriages.<P>Something just doesn't jive...

Well here i am back again,just a short reply this time i promise.....anyways no i would not have left long ago i think i have a better head on my shoulders than that,i have thought this over long and hard and am trying to do the right thing for all involved,the otherman(i hate that term)has never rushed me into anything and just wants for me to be happy with what ever i decide to do and respected my decisions when i stopped contact by not e-mailing or icq'ing me,i respect him for that a lot as i know it wasn't any easier on him...anyways like i said i write in here becuase i know for a fact there are many women in relationships that are not happy and too afraid to make a change and i am here for them.......thanx again.....

Chat, it is not your husband's responsibility to read your mind and know you are unhappy. I told my husband several times I was unhappy, but as someone else said the vagueness kept him from having any idea what to do to fix things.<P>As for now, things aren't perfect, but I can't say I'm living in a fruitless empty marriage. The reason I'm not is because I took the strings and did something about it. I learned how to identify my needs, and I learned how to communicate them to my husband. (ok I'm still practicing that one)<BR>You are right, noone should live in an empty unfulfilling marriage. There are two approaches to that problem... Get out of the marriage or take the bull by the horn and learn how to make the existing marriage better. (ok there's a third, you can live between two men who each meet some of your needs, lie to cover it up, give away pieces of your self dignity trying to rationalize it, and finally get burned badly when your decision begins to fall apart and you can't keep the charade up any longer.)<P>From my perspective you are still in what appears to be an unfulfilling marriage, and you've dragged somebody else into the mix. The problem hasn't been solved. I'm not you so I don't live with your decisions. They aren't mine though. I came to this site to take the bull by the horns, not to settle. I have enough dignity in myself not to do that.

chat,<P>If your only reason being here is to support those women who are stuck in a marriage and are to afraid to get out then I think you have come to wrong place. The people who come to this site come for one reason and that is to build a better and stonger marriage or to support others in doing that. I am not saying that you should leave but I honestly think you should rethink your motives for being here.<BR>I have something else for you to ponder. When your kids are old enough to really understand the roots of your relationship with the OM (provided you do end up leaving your H for him) do you think that they will have any respect for him at all. This will be the man who came between their mother and father, the man who was intimate with their mother while she was still married to their father, the man she was willing to throw everything away to be with (including them).<BR>I honestly would rather look back and say I did everything I could to make myself happy but not at the expense of those who love me and care for me.<BR>Again I have to say you should really look at your motives for being here. Read some other posts in the other forums about fulfilling emotional needs, you may be failing your husband just as much as he is failing you. Sometimes it takes wording things in a different way to get our point accross. Can you honestly say that you have tried everything to get your H involved in your marriage?<BR>Just one more question...How can you expect to ever fall back in love with your H as long as OM is still in your life?<P>Just a sideline- is Yorkton close to Saskatoon? My dad grew up in Duck Lake.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole <p>[This message has been edited by Patient Love (edited March 16, 2000).]

You know that old commercial, "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV?" Well, I haven't had an affair, but I wrote a story about someone who did. <P>But I do know about learning about yourself and about how to deal in a marriage, so I think I have something to offer.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>i am not sure what it is i am looking for here if anything at all<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Chatwithu, that statement sure sounds to me as if you're looking outside for something that's missing in yourself. And neither your H nor OM can fill that hold. Only YOU can do that.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>i guess it is hard for anyone to understand how other man and i both feel about each other as none of you know us<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But chat, everyone who's had an affair says this. But you know what? Sometimes we don't see life clearly. Like the fashion model who thinks she's ugly even though the world sees her as beautiful. Sometimes we see life through a funhouse mirror...doesn't mean it's accurate.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>i would also be skeptical if i heard a friend of mine or family member was in love with someone they met once and to top it all of especially meeting on a computer,after all we have all heard horror stories and like everything else in life we eem to only remember the negative and not the positive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'll do you one better, chat. Years ago, WHEN I WAS SINGLE, I met a guy in prison via a personal ad. Oh, it was the same deal -- passionate letters, that "falling in love" feeling. He sent me roses...even though he was locked up... and yup, I just had to meet him, and I flew halfway across the country to do it. And I was sure I was "in love" until the reality of not having him with me set in and I realized, "What the f*** am I doing?" I was lucky; he called me when I got out and I was with my H by then, and he never pursued me.<P>But oh, I remember those feelings. I'm not skeptical that you have them. I'm skeptical about them being based on something concrete instead of quicksand.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>All i want out of life is to enjoy the company of my partner and respect them and love them and feel that connection to them which i feel is so important,i don't want to feel lonely when i am with them as if that is the case i should have stayed single forever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That sounds like a good starting point from which to work with your H.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am in such a dilemna here wanting to spend the rest of my life with this other person but yet there is that part of me holding back in fear of hurting kids and hubby,not to mention family and friends.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Or is it fear that you might be wrong? That maybe that little "common sense" voice is telling you, "You know, maybe this isn't what it seems..."<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I can think back to hubby and i going out to supper and not having anything to tlak about which was very uncomfortable as i was aware of everyone else in restaurant talking,then here we sat looking like fools,like i have said i could write a book on dissapointments in my marriage and yes i ave told hubby time and time again about them but i truly believe some people are born with the gift to talk and some aren't.....actually in this case i am not even sure if thats the problem i think it is more that we are not on the same intellectual level at all,we would get along better as friends than living together i think,ok i know i probably sound confused but this is so hard to explain,thank god i go to counsellor tomorrow........oh well thats it for now thanx again..........;-)[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, chat, if you could demonstrate that you are capable of writing a coherent English sentence, using punctuation and capitalization, I might be willing to buy that your H is at a lower intellectual level.<P>So your H is a lousy communicator. So what? So are many men. Mine is. I'm a compulsive talker, and we balance each other out. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't feel safe talking because maybe you belittle him, or maybe he's afraid you'll say that what he said is stupid, or something like that. Some people have a harder time putting thoughts and feelings into words, but the environment we create makes a big difference. <P>I have a very shady backyard, and grass doesn't grow very well back there, left to its own devices. But if I put a lot of lime down to keep the moss away, and plant special grasses that are shade-tolerant, I can have a nice green yard. Same with a marriage. If you lay the groundwork for the communication, you'd be surprised at what you can do.<P>Chat, whether you stay with your H is your own business, and I'm still not quite sure why you're here; whether you want applause or affirmation of what you feel for OM. I've told you my experience with fantasy romance, and I was SINGLE at the time. So yeah, I do know those feelings. But one of the hardest things to do when looking at marital problems is to look at our own role. But I'll tell you this much...when YOU change, and you see your spouse change accordingly, it's a rush better than all the hot sex with a stranger in the world. <P>

To patient love,i just want to clarify something here,not once did i say that i would leave my kids so what are you even talking about saying i would throw tem away by leaving here.........read again please.......why do u think i have stayed this long......it has been for the kids.......

Chat,<P>I have reread your posts and apologize for suggesting that you may leave your kids. I read too much into a couple of your statements about not wanting to leave to be with OM because of the pain it would cause them and assumed that if in the end it would take having to leave your kids to be with OM you would have done that. Please accept my apologies.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole

To Patient Love: I accept your apology,thanx........;-)