Is it just human nature or my whiney nature that I sit back and say, if only this situation had been such and such, or if only I had done this or that. I'm not just talking about before H's affair, but even since.<P>I find myself thinking I would be handling it better if it hadn't gone on so long, or if I had found out earlier, but the fact that it went on as long as it did and he had already ended it made it easier for him, because he had already seen it for what it was or was not.<P>If I had vented all my anger at him immediately instead of trying to hide my feelings. <P>If he had only cried instead of just admitting to my accusations and then going to sleep leaving me along with the greatest pain I had ever felt in my life. <P>If I had not compromised myself and gone against my feelings while dealing with his needs and while dealing with the OW and her little tricks she pulled. <P>If I had only allowed myself to grieve and allowed myself to feel the way I felt.<P>My H doesn't feel anything, or atleast doesn't show it, so in my obsessive need to seek his approval I tried so hard to not be as hurt as I was. I concentrated so hard on our marriage that I didn't get some very important "Urges" out of my system. I have a n anger to the point of violence in me that I need to vent some how. The anger is at him and at me for not being able to take care of myself.<P>Is there anyway to go back and satisfy the void that these actions left in me.<P>If he cried now, it wouldn't mean anything to me. If I concentrated on my now, it would probably be the end of our marriage and not a step toward me getting a grip. When I express myself to him now he feels I am weak, unreasonable and unable to let go of the resentment. He accuses me of giving up. If I had done this early he atleast should have been expected to understand.<P>My efforts in the beginning to save my marriage prevented my from reacting the way I wanted to react and in my opinion deserved to react. Now those same efforts are preventing me from moving on because I feel an important part of what I needed to heal was left undone by me and by my H.<P>There are some on this forum whose spouses are still with their OP, I didn't have to deal with that, but find myself extremely irritated by how he can so callously move on and just try to "Love" me now. (I know that sound crazy, I guess it is) Many of you would do almost anything to have that.<P>

Hi Essyboo,<BR>Of course you can't go backwards, but you can do what you need to do to move forward. You need to get everything off your chest, the longer you sit on it, the more it will eat at you. Talk to your H, be calm and say what you need to say. Your H's action may just be a reaction to you not lossing it.

Essyboo - Whether he's there with you or not, you've been through a lot!! And, bless all our hearts, in our dogged determination to Plan A, we tend to squash all the healthy ways of dealing with our emotions. <P>But, like it or now, They gotta come out. Can't shake up a soda but for so long w/out the top coming off, no matter how strong the can is.<P>Looks like now, you've got to find the way to safely let the steam out. I agree with Viki. Talk to him. Before you YELL at him or attack him w/ a 2X4. Help him to understand what you're feeling. <P>And b/n the two of you, find a way to release the pressure.<P>Hang in there.<P>Lori

If I try to talk to him he just gets mad and says I'm giving up. It scares me that I'm giving up too, but the truth is a large part of me has.<P>I am faced with the fact that even though I loved him (and a did truly love him) I didn't really like him and I didn't like the way he made me feel. This was the case through out most of our marriage.<P>Now I have this choice that I never thought I would ever have. I can scripturally divorce this man and marry again. If you would have asked me any time during the past 15 years if I would walk given the opportunity I would have said yes in a heartbeat. <P>Now I know I can walk, but I didn't. He says I didn't because I was afraid. Why couldn't he say I didn't because I was strong?<P>I was afraid, but that fear of losing him is what gave me the strength to stay. That makes no sense to him, he doesn't think in the abstract at all.<P>He has even indicated that I am staying just for the financial security. Now I am not only weak, but selfish and greedy.<P>What really gets me is that he says all these things, but says them as he continues to try to be the perfect husband. He is so clueless that he doesn't even realize he is being degrading and selfish. It is just too big a part of his nature and personality.<P>He doesn't want to rehash things, because that isn't logical. He can't change what he did so there is no other choice but to move on. I understand that on a logical level, but he can't understand me on an emotional level because he has none. How am I supposed to move on when I have all these feelings tearing me up inside. He can't comprehend this, he just feels I should stop having these feelings. (Thus another failure)<P>He isn't trying to be mean, he just doesn't know any other way to be and isn't able to comprehend what I need. I fear he is incapable and so eventually either our marriage will fail or I will again just have to make a vow to myself to live the rest of my life not getting what I need the way I did before his affair.

You can't live in a world of "what ifs" The more you dwell on the what ifs the deeper you go into the bottomless pit. <P> I can't remember if you are seeing a counselor but you really should. You need someone to talk about your feeling and help you sort them out. <P>I really can't give you any advice because we are not in the same situation, and I don't know what I would do if I were you. But I do know that there is a point in time that you have to give up thinking about the past and move forward. I don't know what your forward would be staying or leaving. <P> But again you need to find some one you can talk to help you and of course it would really help if you and your H also went to a counselor. But if he won't you still need to go actually I would recommend that you do both if possible together and alone.<P>I wish I could be of more help. I am sure I'm not saying anything that you haven't already heard 100 x here.<P>You have my prayers. <P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Wish I could say something to help, but my H too thinks it's pointless to talk about soemthing over & done with. In my case though, I was the one who had the affair. I don't want to talk about the affair, and I don't want to make excuses for myself, but I need to know he understands the reasons that led to to a point where I allowed someone else to take care of my emotional needs.<BR>The only thing I have found useful as far as dealing with the feelings and giving him my input in a calm manner is in writing. Wrote him a long letter, telling him what I felt was still wrong in our relationship & asking for his help. I find that after the letter, while he won't admitedly say there was anything wrong with our marriage, he has been a changed man the past month. Maybe you could get your feelings on paper and have him read it, then talk about it a little later. I sometimes think we have this on/off switch, that we can just let things go. But I have also realized that if you present what you need to say in a calm manner, then give them time to think about it, you can come back at a later date and they've had time to deal with their emotions so that they can talk with you.

Essyboo: Have you & your H considered going to marital counseling? I agree that it isn't healthy to supress feelings. When you do...they eventually erupt out.<P>Is your H willing to come to this forum so that he can understand what you are going through? His attitude reminds me, as if someone would say, "Get over it."<P>This is so difficult for you, especially when you have just experienced something so devastating. This unfortunate event has altered your lives forever.<P>If your H won't attend therapy, it would be a good idea if you went anyway OR maybe, a call to Dr. Harley.<P>Hang in there. Even though the tunnel seems dark, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

We have started joint therapy. We go for our second session tomorrow. He insisted he didn't need any help, but wanted to go together so he could be there for me. (another blow)<P>He wants to be the knight in shining armour. He is the the gallant fireman that pulls the injured person out of the burning house or frees a trapped motorist with the jaws of life. His idea of affection is to aid the weak damsel in distress. That is how we first started dating. He helped me break away from an abusive relationship with his friend. That is also how he met the OW. She was going through a painful separation from her second husband. The funny thing is these traits are appealing to me in a way. I am proud of his desire to help others, but when you mix that with his cynicism and his attitude that he is constantly having to deal with all the "idiots and morons" that surround him it makes it come across as "here, let me help you, you idiot, it is obvious your too big of a moron to handle this on your own." It kind of loses the romance aspect that way.<P>I'm tired of the being treated like a weakling that can't handle things emotionally. I want him to understand that I have every right in the world to feel the amount of pain I feel. I haven't handled it that bad. I did things that required more strenght than I ever thought I had. I feel he has a major problem because he was able to do what he did and feel nothing.<P>I feel I should seek individual councelling. I do not look forward to tomorrow. He will sit next to me again and be totally cooperative in his attempt to straighten me out so that I won't continue causing us to have marital strife. I'm not sure I like the councellor we are seeing. I definitely will not go to her for individual counselling.

SDS,<P>Concerning your statement about moving on. I am aware that I need to move and in a lot of ways I have. I am putting more effort into building my own selfesteem and confidence. The problem is I am having to do this in areas of my life that do not involve my H. That may not be very wise in the long run. We grew apart before his affair and that was a lot of our trouble, yet I still can't seem to get my needs satisfied by him but instead of leaving them unsatisfied I am just learning how to satisfy them without him. That is what he did when he had the affair.<P>When he is off for several days and we spend a lot of time together I notice a major drop in my selfconfidence. I think that is why this week has been hard because we spent all weekend together for Thanksgiving. We split the time between my family and his. I was bombarded by "what is the matter with you" and "why are you so thin". The big family secret is still saft. <P>I also got to see the lack of affection he had for his own family and the lack of consideration the family showed his mother. I fear this is my lot in life if I stay with him.

Essyboo,<P>Your posts have certainly caused me to think a bit. I would like to give you somethings to think about concerning your H and more particularly you. Allow me to use your comments and try to provide you with some idea of his perspective. I am not trying to be mean nor judgmental. I hope I can give you some insight.<P>"If I try to talk to him he just gets mad and says I'm giving up. It scares me that I'm giving up too, but the truth is a large part of me has."<P>He knows you well enough to know that what you say is absolutely true. So what part of his response is incorrect? Should he be lying to you? He is being honest with you.<P>"I am faced with the fact that even though I loved him (and a did truly love him) I didn't really like him and I didn't like the way he<BR>made me feel. This was the case through out most of our marriage."<P>You don't think he doesn't know this. Men may not say as much as women, but they do pick things up especially if it has been true for most of the marriage. Has it occurred to you that he might have stayed out of duty? If you don't like him, it will and has shown, but he stayed until the affair. You know, who and what you like is your choice; not his. He can only be himself.<P>"Now I have this choice that I never thought I would ever have. I can scripturally divorce this man and marry again. If you would have asked me any time during the past 15 years if I would walk given the opportunity I would have said yes in a heartbeat."<P>And you wonder why he found love somewhere else. Why did you stay? You have said you did not like him. You said that you would have walked in a heartbeat? Why didn't you?? I say that is a reasonable question. Could it be money, fear of the unknown? I don't know, neither does he. But you have to figure this one out and give him an answer.<P>"Now I know I can walk, but I didn't. He says I didn't because I was afraid. Why couldn't he say I didn't because I was strong?" <P>Because if you were "strong" in his mind you would have walked "in a heartbeat" over the 15 years. Here he has done something he is very ashamed of and is a violation of the marriage vows and you are here. But you don't like him and you don't love him right?? He doesn't understand why. A strong person would have not stayed with someone they did not like.<P>"I was afraid, but that fear of losing him is what gave me the strength to stay. That makes no sense to him, he doesn't think in the abstract at all."<P>Fear and weakness are frequently considered the same thing. If one doesn't confront fear in many lines of work, it is because of fear.<P>"He has even indicated that I am staying just for the financial security. Now I am not only weak, but selfish and greedy."<P>Well?? You feel you are strong and have told him so. You don't like him. You don't love him. You have spiritual permission to divorce him. What is keeping you here? Money does come to mind.<P>"What really gets me is that he says all these things, but says them as he continues to try to be the perfect husband. He is so<BR>clueless that he doesn't even realize he is being degrading and selfish. It is just too big a part of his nature and personality."<P>No, you are wrong!! He is not clueless. Although you have not liked him and maybe not loved him. He has loved you, period. He screwed up and he knows it. He is trying to stay with the woman he loves. He is staying although you are not perfect and he knows don't even like him. He may not put these things in words that you understand but he is trying because he loves you. Plus his statements appear to be truthful given your own statements. He is not trying to be mean but honest.<P>"He doesn't want to rehash things, because that isn't logical. He can't change what he did so there is no other choice but to move on. I understand that on a logical level, but he can't understand me on an emotional level because he has none. How am I supposed to move on when I have all these feelings tearing me up inside. He can't comprehend this, he just feels I should stop having these feelings. (Thus another failure)"<P>See answers and statements above. Does this make logical or emotional sense to you. It does not to me. He cannot change what he has done. Furthermore, you have been willing to walk for 15 years by your own admission. It is to the point that you either decide or not to decide. All he can do is be the best H he can be. This is not about acknowledging your emotions, he knows you have them. He cannot do anything about them. Fact of the matter you cannot either and they are your emotions.<P>"He isn't trying to be mean, he just doesn't know any other way to be and isn't able to comprehend what I need. I fear he is incapable and so eventually either our marriage will fail or I will again just have to make a vow to myself to live the rest of my life not getting what I need the way I did before his affair."<P>How could he possibly know what you need? You don't know what you need. You have stayed married to a man you claim you have never liked. You are not sure you love him. You are second guessing yourself about your responses after the disclosure. You don't know how you should of responded but are not happy with what you did. Why is it a mystery to you that he might not know what you need.<P>Now Essyboo, I have been very very hard on you so far is this post. There is a very good reason. You are not telling us the truth here. You are hiding something from yourself about your relation with your H. Because the "logic" of someone staying married to someone they don't like but claim to love for 15 years and being a good wife doesn't hang together. I am guessing you are doing revisionist history like many betrayers do. Please please stop and think about what you said. If all is true you H's statements are dead on and you don't want to admit it. <P>I suspect that there is a deep love here and you have built many walls over the 15 years to shut out things. I also think that you might need some meds for depression if you are not taking them. I definitely think you need some counseling to help identify the source of the anger. It appears to be more than the affair. Perhaps anger at yourself for the situations you and H find yourself in. I don't know.<P>It would seem from here that H is being honest in his assessment of the situation. He may not be correct but you are not providing what he needs to do better. Please back off of this and look at .<P>I hope I have helped in some small way.<P>Good Luck and <BR>God Bless You and Your Family<P><p>[This message has been edited by Just Learning (edited December 02, 1999).]

All my life I have sought approval. That is probably my greatest need. I have discussed this with our counsellor and she agrees. I also tend to blame myself for everything, even things I can't control.<P>I didn't and still don't have the approval of my parents, so when I was really too young I sought the approval of boys. That got me molested and date raped. I tried to change myself into his mother to achieve my H approval. I love his mother, but I didn't like the me I became when trying to be like her.<P>I stayed in the marriage because I felt there was only one way out scripturally and I was dedicated to it. I did love him, but I didn't like the way he treated me. I'm sure that is a sentament shared by many of us.<P>I have stayed because I don't quit. I am very stubborn, obviously, and a little rebellious. (Ok, just pretend to be surprised for my benefit) <P>I don't mind you being hard on me, but just remember that I am harder tenfold on myself.<P>I want to move on. I am having to admit to myself that I am too weak, I can't do this. I have failed. <P>According to what I have read about personality disorders, a person who tends to blame themselves for everything needs to try to get others to take the blame in order to ease their burden.<P>I just want him to treat me as if I am important. I want him to hold me and say it is okay that I still hurt. I want him to give me permission to feel that I might fail and that if I do then I am not a failure. I'm terrified that I can't do this.<P>I am looking into medication. I am just so afraid that he will think I'm weak, or maybe I'm afraid it will make everything better and therefore have to deal with the reality (my reality atleast) that I was the cause of all the trouble.<P>I just want him to let me hurt without making me feel bad for hurting.<P>I want him to accept that I am dealing with alot of contradictions in my own life without making me lie to myself to be what he wants me to be.<P>

Essyboo,<P>I have to respond because I see a lot of me and my H in your description of you and your H. I also recognize a lot of your feelings. <BR> I am definitely not a therapist of any kind, but do some reading about "codependent relationships". It is a way some couples have of relating to each other. My H and I were so locked into this kind of relationship, that it has taken us 16 months of counseling to be able to recognize it when we start in our old patterns. I thought codependency was something that only applied to alcoholism problems, but it is not.<P>Do a web search on "Codependency" and you will find tons of material. One link that describes typical characteristics of a codependent person is:<BR> <A HREF="http://www2.addr.com/~sariaa/codep-rl/typcodep.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www2.addr.com/~sariaa/codep-rl/typcodep.htm</A> <P>See if you can identify with any of these characteristics. I may be way off base, but I have felt so many of the feelings you have now that I just wonder if any of the codependency stuff would apply to y'all.<BR>

Essyboo,<P>Have you ever thought that your H wants your approval? He wants your love. He wants to give love to you not because you need it but because he wants to give it to you: A GIFT.<P>Essyboo, You cannot give a gift to someone whose is expecting or demanding it. I was being "hard" on you because your H's responses are normal. You have a reason to feel hurt and betrayed because you were. But your H's response is not an attempt to add more pain but to be honest with you. He cannot give you the gift of his love, if you demand it. It is not a gift it is an obligation and love does not work that way.<P>You know if you were strong (and I think you are), then decide you want this marriage and go up to him and give him the gift of your love. Get physical with him . Take control by giving him your forgiveness. <P>I will tell you an interesting story. I have 2 almost 3 teenagers in the family. Two of them drive (a very scary concept to adjust to). At a four way stop, I will tell people via hand jestures to go ahead of me. My kids asked me why I do this, particularly when I had the right of way by a narrow margin. I have learned if I take control of the situation we all get through the intersection faster and safer, even if I go last.<P>If you want your marriage and I think you do. Take control of it. Give and forgive your H will respond in ways you cannot imagine. He will change his behavior, if you take control not yell or fume or withdraw but simply say I would prefer you treated me like this and OH by the way, I Love you. <P>I know this sounds strange, and it is harder to do than it sounds. I also know that you are depressed. But Essyboo quit worrying about him meeting needs you cannot articulate and take action. I believe that you will find that your needs will be taken care and then some . You H is trying but is very afraid that you will leave. If you don't want to leave and you want to improve the marriage consider what I am saying. <P>Most of what I have said is really just Harley's meeting needs. THat is a way for the people most hurt to take control of the situation and do something positive. Please Please think about this. I believe you love your H more than you let on. I suspect that you even like him. But you would like him even more if he knew that you were strong enough to love and forgive him. That is not the same as forgetting or having concerns about honesty. THose take time as everyone here will tell you.<P>I hope that you read read both of these posts again. One shows that your H is not being mean or unreasonable and that you do have control of the situation if you want it. This one I hope offers you something constructive to help you get to where you want to be. Married to a man who loves you and who is someone you like to be with.<P>You have much work to do as does your H, but I see hope for you two.<P>God Bless You and Your Family

Can you tell me why his reaction to me is always anger. Why can't it be remorse or pain or something besides judgemental anger.<P>I just get so very tired of working to be and act like somebody I am not.<P>If I acted like everything was fine then he would be thrilled, but everything isn't fine. When I get tired and down he gets angry and then it all starts over again. I have tried to talk to him and sometimes he gets on the forum and reads and then he gets mad and sullen.<P>We go to the counsellor tomorrow. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I guess I will just let her lead us where she wants us to go. I just hope my H tells her something this time. Last time he just spent his time answering her questions without giving her any anwers.<P>I approach the counselling as if it were for me and I will let him approach it anyway he wants. I know I can't change him. I tried to for years, I just wish I could accept him and myself, especially myself.<BR>

I went to the web page. I should file a liable claim and a copywrite infringement for publishing my biography without my permission.<P>I'm sitting in the office getting drunk and my H is watching worthless TV, not even sports, probably getting drunk. Did I mention I AM STUBBORN .<P>If I feel so responsible for everything going wrong and feel everything is my fault, why do I have such a hard time admitting it?<P>How long would he let it go before he would make a move? Maybe I just haven't been seeing them.

Essyboo,<P>Have you been reading my postings to you? Your H is angry because of guilt. Whenever, you get down it rubs the guilt into his face. Please recall before affair you did not like him. Were you using being down to get things out of him? There are so many possibilities but you must look at yourself. He is telling what he needs from you. And actually, what you need for yourself. You need self respect and he needs your respect and love.<P>Girl, it seems pretty plain. But you won't give it to him or yourself because you haven't figured out who to blame the most. <P>Give up the blame and decide if you want him in your life. It seems to me if you do, please please start today / tonight and take control of your life. You can do this getting smashed is not going to help though . <P>Please quit worrying so much. He wants a wife not a slave. He wants a person who takes charge of her life. I suspect if you do this you will be happier with yourself and him. And he will be happier with you. <P>Have you talked to the counselor about all of these issues? Have you gone to counseling for yourself? Please think about this.<P>Are you afraid to do these things because you are afraid of being let down again? Giving you heart to your H cannot and will not hurt as much as you are putting yourself through right now. You have nothing to risk. You have been through the worst possible pain and survived. Have some faith in yourself. You are much stronger than you think and your H knows it. If I had to interpret what he is thinking from what you are saying he is trying in is own way to get you to see your own strength. It apparently not effective but he is trying.<P>Is or was he in the military? His approach is exactly the way they test and train new recruits to find their inner strength. It works on many men but I doubt that it does for women. Certainly not you. Just realize he is coming from a different place but he may actually be trying to help you. Talk with him about this. You may get a big surprise. It may just be his upbringing and training and he does not know what else to do.<P>Please think about this.<P>Got to go.<P>God Bless You<P>

He was in the military, but didn't take much pride in it.<P>Understand that he didn't think any better of our marriage than I did. It isn't just a matter of me not liking him before, that is a very small part of only my story. He never spent time with me either unless he had to. I was always very low on his list of priorities if I made the list at all that was one of the main things I didn't like about our marriage and him. I was hurt by his actions before. It begins to turn into a circle and I won't even try to blame either of us for starting it.<P>I never even attempted to manipulate him with my moods. He was never easily manipulated by me. I never got any response from him but anger even before the affair.<P>I tried to tell him even before his affair what I needed from him and he would just get mad. I tried to give him what I thought he needed, unfortunately I was using his mother as an example so I treated him like a really important "Daddy" not a really important "man". When he was with OW he showed her emotion, with me it is anger. <P>He doesn't even feel anger toward OW now after he found out how she manipulated both him and me and how she used him. He isn't angry at her for using him, yet he is angry at me for being hurt by his betrayal?<P>I know he doesn't want the marriage to end. I believe that, but why does he have to judge me so much harder than he judges others.<P>[This message has been edited by Essyboo (edited December 02, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Essyboo (edited December 02, 1999).]

Why are you making such a big deal about my comment about not liking him. He didn't like me either, atleast not in the sense that I mean that comment.<P>We didn't have a close relationship. We were not "friends" we were Mom and Dad, names on the same line of the Church Directory and two people that had a joint account. We used to call it "tagteam parenting".<P>We had fun together rarely. We had nothing in common and didn't try to change the situation.<P>That was as much his doing as mine.<P>He had an affair. I was in the same marriage and I didn't. How can you question my love for him. I was willing to stay in the marriage until death. Divorce or adultery was never an option. He demeans this and says it means nothing. I don't agree. I'm not saying I was or am incapable of having an affair, I'm saying I never considered it. Isn't that appreciation.<P>Does he deserve more respect and appreciation for ending his affair and staying than I deserve for not leaving? It seems like your saying that I just need to appreciate him and love him and give him everything he needs and everything will go okay. I have been doing that for over 18 months. I have really been trying, but am not receiving in return what I need so it is very easy to get discouraged. <P>I want what he gave her. I want his passion. I want his emotion. I want him to go beyond logic for me and allow his heart and emotions guide him to me for once. I want his respect. He gave all those things to her and I want them because I have never had them. I want to know when I truly satisfy him. I want to know when I really make him happy. I want to know when I improve. I want to know that there is no reason for him to turn to anyone else again. I want to know that I wasn't the only one that failed before and that I may fail at some things again, but it won't cause him to betray me again.<P>I want to know that he will be with me if I gain a few pounds or when I'm old and gray. I want to know that he feels I have done something right in my life. I need these things because I don't believe them.

Just Learning:<P>I have a real problem with something you wrote to me so I'm going to get it out in the open of off my chest. You stated:<BR>_____________________________________________<BR>No, you are wrong!! He is not clueless. Although you have not liked him and maybe not loved him. He has loved you, period. He screwed up and he knows it. He is trying to stay with the woman he loves. He is staying<BR>although you are not perfect and he knows don't even like him. He may not put these things in words that you understand but he is trying because he loves you. Plus his statements appear to be truthful given your own statements. He is not trying to be mean but honest.<BR>_____________________________________________<P>First off, is this your perspective of him or your interpretation of his perspective of himself? If this is your opinion of his own perspective then don't read the rest.<P>OTHERWISE<P>How can you say he "LOVED ME, PERIOD". He wasn't any happier with me than I was with him. He had the affair. He turned to another woman. He verbally abused me for 14 years. (I did some of that too, I'm sure) Why do you perceive him as being so noble. I responded to what was going on around me just as he did. He has not been honest to me. He never told me he was having trouble. I would try to talk to him about my unhappiness and he would just say I would never be happy. We had a lot of bad fights and a lot of hateful things were said by both of us.<P>Why is it so terrible to admit that I didn't like him (or the way he treated me)? Why is it so bad to admit how unhappy I was?<P>How could he go from not caring about me (his own admission) to being in love with me? It wasn't caused by any admiration he gained for me for staying, he feels I stayed because I was weak and greedy. It wasn't because he finally saw me for the "wonderful person I am" because I didn't treat him very good those 14 years either.<P>We were both raised with very firm beliefs of marriage and divorce. If we divorce, he can never scripturally remarry again until I'm dead. Doesn't that sound like good motivation to try to keep this marriage together. He said I always took care of his domestic needs. He loves his children and doesn't want them coming from a broken hom. He has also on several occassion whined about the unfairness of him getting stuck with the debt and childsupport. I see a lot of reasons for him to still be here besides love.<P>He only responds to what I can do for him. If I treat him great he acts fine, but if I get down he starts up the hatefulness and belittling again.<P>Your telling me that I have an obligation to give him what he needs to make him happy and maybe I will be happy in the long run. Where are his obligations? <P>Has he satisfied all his obligations to me simply because he gave up the other woman?

Essyboo,<P>I responed a little to your other post. Are you good and mad at me? Excellent Now I want you to reread what I wrote. Now think about this.<P>You want something from your H that you never had. You have been trying for 18 months and it hasn't worked. Now some of the issues are undoubtably his but I am conversing with you and you can only change you. Please understand I am trying to get you to see things from his prospective. If you can come to understand that, perhaps you can come up with some action that you can take to change things. What you have been trying is not working. <P>I will admit to a personal bias. I cannot understand being in love with someone I don't like. That is not to say that I couldn't be inlove with someone who annoys me from time to time or someone who has greatly disappointed or hurt me. But if you two have never liked each other, then why is he trying to go forward in the marriage. Kids good reason. Money possibly? Religious obligation, you seem to favor that choice. <P>Since you are going to stay married in some senses there is no incentive to make things better just tolerable right? I say wrong and so do you and I suspect you H. I don't know if you have His Needs / Her Needs (please read it) but one thing in that book that really struck me was the discussion of people who worked hard to meet their spouses needs only to find out that weren't the major needs of the spouse at all.<P>Now we go back to understanding your H and your reactions to him. Please go back and read these last few posts. You are looking for places where you have misinterpreted his responses and his needs. If you can find those you may also understand more about yourself. Your approach to getting your needs met may not lie in the direction of simply telling him what you need. It may sound like an order to him. You may need a different approach.<P>I will repeat, I am not mad at you or siding with your H. I am trying to get you to analyze this situation and change what has not worked for 18 months and perhaps the whole marriage. As you correctly point out, I don't know your H except from what you have said about him. I don't know you except from what you have said about yourself. What I was trying to do is get the person who knows you the best and perhaps your H best to do the heavy thinking here. That is you. <P>I and others can suggest, speculate, and hope that somewhere we strike a cord with your problem that helps you move on. It seems that I have missed in all attempts. For that I apologize and I hope that someone here can do for you what I could not. Hopefully, the counseling will help shed light on things.<P>Best of Luck with the counseling.<P>God Bless You and Your H.<P>P.S. I still have hope that your marriage will be saved. I do think your H loves you and does not know how to show it and I suspect you have a hard showing your H your love. But it is there. Have hope, faith, and patience.