When we filled out EN questionaire, H claims I'm meeting all his needs except need for sex. (and that has improved since I've started major plan A)<P>H is having EA not PA. So there must be some need she is meeting that isn't on the EN questionaire, or he lied in his answers.<P>Are there any OW that can tell me what emotional need you filled for the MM?<P>anyone with any ideas?<P>there must be some emotional need that I'm overlooking or he wouldn't be needing to continue the EA.<P>Keo<P>if any OW would like to make suggestions without posting here please feel free to email me Keosha99@hotmail.com<P>sorry if this offends anyone, but I really am at a dead end and need to figure out what to do <P>delete your answer if you want to, I don't want to cause any bad feels here...<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Keosha (edited March 10, 2000).]

Hey Keo, you know you're asking us (OW) to set ourselves up for all kinds of abuse by requesting this sort of information but I'll take a stab at it and pray that others don't take a stab at ME!!! You gotta remember though that every case is different and you may be providing all these things to your H that I am going to mention but here goes:<P>First of all you mentioned sex....well that is basically non-existent in their marriage (and don't question it.......trust me I KNOW. I have very good FACTUAL reasons to believe that) but you say you are meeting his needs there. However, there is a difference between just having sex and meeting his needs. It's not always a quantity issue so you could be doing it 7 days a week but if it's not in a way that he likes it, it's more just going thru the motions. You need to be able to open up and ask him what his needs are in that arena if you haven't already done so....and you need to be comfortable sharing your needs as well, for that matter!!! Does he liked to be touched a certain way, in certain places? Does he like to be sweet and sensual or wild and animalistic? We can't be mind readers, we have to ask and be willing to accept answers. <P>Another big thing in MM's relationship is that she never tells him what a wonderful man he is. How handsome he is. How sexy. How smart. How level-headed. etc. She just never compliments him or makes him feel appreciated and loved. Now in turn, he never says nice things to her either. <P>Next, there's no affection. They don't hold hands out in public. They don't touch in the car. She doesn't run to his arms and hold and kiss him after he's been out of town. But again, it goes both ways. When we are together, he'll be massaging my shoulders and then things might get a little heated and I'll say something like "gosh, how can she NOT get in the mood when you are doing something like this" and it's because he doesn't do that to her. Sad, but true.<P>Now there are those who will say that he could be lying to me about all of that. And yes, he could, but if he was, why would he be cheating on his wife is she was doing all that for him? Plus some of it I know to be true for reasons I won't get into here. <P>Lastly just so you and everyone else knows....I'm NOT rethinking my decision to end the affair. That is still my intention. Just trying to add insight here to someone who asked so don't stone me yet! <P>Happy Friday Keo, hope that helps!<P><BR>

Keo, I replied when you were ready to quit, but you let the thread die. I thought he had ended it??? If he has feelings for her, he still has to let go as he goes through withdrawal.<P>That questionnaire was hard for ME to fill out. It took a lot of thinking to boil down my needs to those questions.<P>Did you guys fill them out completely, or just glance at them? (I'm asking because we reviewed them quickly a couple of years ago and thought we had them covered.) Since there are numerical rankings for each need, there are differences in how well they are being met.<P>AZ has gone on a limb here and given good answers. I think admiration is a biggie. Men do need to be told how wonderful they are in many different ways. This one has been hard for me as a betrayed since I don't think he is especially wonderful right now.<P>If you are having trouble with this one, read Cachos thread under "recovery". HGB gave me some good advice to list all the positives in my h and it has helped a lot. First I have to internalize them and see there really are some big positives, then I will start to convey it to him.

azhootie<P>thanks for answering. I truly hope nobody throws stones I didn't even consider that possibility when I ask the question.<P>Your answers have helped me, also made me think of many more questions <P>I've always admired him and complimented him in every sincere way I can. <P>Then I started noticing that he would eliminate the things that I complimented. <P>I loved his hair (he cut it and changed the style) <P>He bought some designer jeans, I complimented how he looked (hot!) and he never wears them again.<P>the list could go on and on....<P>as for sex... someone had a post about a feather... I introduced a feather, it was great! one time and he tossed ALL the feathers in the garbage. <P>what gives with this man?<P>I try to hold his hand in public and he pulls back and says "you knew when you married me that I don't like that mushy kind of thing" <P>I try to rub his shoulders or back and he pulls away.<P>It's like being married to a cameelian (sp?)<P>Sometimes I wish I was OW so I could get those reactions from a man. (just kidding)<P>Keo<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This is what I wish more unfaithful spouses who "pine" away over the<BR> op would realize. It is very likely not love they feel, but just the<BR> temporary feeding of the ego....which intoxicates and confuses. Real<BR> love involves knowing all of each others "warts and wrinkles" and<BR> overlooking them. Real love means staying when you want to run<BR> away. Real love means honoring your promises and commitments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Keo, I took the liberty of copying part of a reply from HGBrawner. I think she said it better than I could.

As a former OW I agree with Azhootie in terms of admiration. I really think that a lot of men who say they were doing it for sex were really doing it for admiration. But if you are already giving him that and he just doesn't seem to want it from you, I don't know what to say. Have you thought that maybe he just enjoys having two women? Maybe he just likes having you both and feels like why shouldn't he? You can break a leg meeting his needs 100 different ways and he'll probably like that just fun because he gets that and the OW. A more is better kind of way of thinking. What do you think?<P>Del

Hi Keo, <P>I'm a betrayed person and not OP, but I will put my 2 cents in anyway.<P>I think what can lead them to an affair is the fact that life just gets mundane over the years and maybe when they do need extra special attention and try to request it that it's just not a good time for you. We are all busy with kids, job, housework,etc. We get too caught up in daily life to take notice that a problem might be brewing. I am sure this is a lack of communication, but it goes both ways. <P>Now he is having affair and you are very aware of his needs. The big major roadblock here is that there is another person now in the picture and he just can't let me "in" to do what I need and should be doing.<P>Pam

the thing that confuses me the most is that I was meeting ALL his needs when this EA started. <P>I continued meeting all his needs for the first year of the EA.<P>the only need that I didn't continue after that is his need for sex. that need went unmet for about the last 5 years. BUT... as far as I can tell, he's not getting sex anywhere else. I've suspicioned a few "one night stands" when he's away from home, but I know he's not getting sex from the OW he's involved in EA with.<P>I was basing my actions on the recomendations in a book called "The Total Woman". It covers all the needs that are listed here on MB but goes into detail giving ideas on how to meet each need.<P>Marriage was FABULOUS until H met OW. <P>I'm beginning to think it's a flaw in his personality, not a result of his needs not being met. <P>I just can't figure out how to get the "old" hubby back. I know he's hiding somewhere in there and there must be a way to bring the "real" him back to the surface.<P>If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't keep trying.<P>I'm wearing down fast now. I'm rapidly approaching the point that I don't meet any of his needs anymore.<P>Keo

Hi Keo,<P>I have a thought on this subject, maybe two or three.<P>You mentioned in another post that your H was a "trouble shooter" "problem solver" for a large company. In a way, my is a trouble shooter and problem solver, although it does not necessary get expressed in his occupation. Rather, trouble shooting and problem solving are a hobby for him. He likes to build things, fix things, invent things, and tell others how to do it. This last point is very significant. He really "assumes" that he has the answers for most any practical matter you might wish to discuss with him, and is big on "sharing his ideas" until you can't help but be convinced that he is right. It is just a small flaw in his thinking, but one which was reinforced by the OW. She was "needy". I was not. She was in a new city, with few friends and a husband with whom she had not slept beside in five years! I got a fix two or three times a month when he was home, and she got a fix four to six times a month, maybe more, but she reacted differently to "the fix" than I did. She was OH SO Greatfull! I took it in stride.... <P>Another thing, I come across as very self confident, sometimes opionated (have you seen that in me) and self sufficient. It goes with being married to a traveler. You harden yourself to not appear needy although inside you miss the hell out of your man when he is gone. I did not apprear to him to really need him for anything except broken appliances and lawn mowers.<P>The OW, on the other hand, needed him to help her solve a lot of problems. Her H made it difficult for her to call her family in Peru because he supposedly was a "tightwad". So my H solved that problem by getting a calling card to which she could charge her calls to Peru as well as him. (The bill came to a secret post office box and he paid for it with a secret credit card). <P>Even after discovery, he felt a stong "responsibility" toward her. He had promised her a computer to solve some of her other problems, and even tho the affair was "supposedly over" he sent her one. (That story may still be on the old archive posts.) Anyway, my point is.....It seems that maybe your man and my man and maybe other men need to feel needed. He now realizes that I need his attention, his affection, conversation, everything, like I need to breath. I, in turn, need to, no must let him know I appreciate and am greatful for his efforts. In a way he wants to be treated like a king, and hey, I can do that, not a problem at all. The funny reaction I have noticed is that he is now treating me like a queen.<P>Just a thought.<P>Did you get a chance to check out the Website? What'd ya think?<P>Beth<P>

Hey Keo,<BR>Did he get home last nite?<P>Beth

"Temporary feeding of the ego..."<P><B>WHY</B> is that concept so berated. EVERYONE has an ego that needs to be fed. It is a powerful way to make us feel good about ourselves. And we are naturally attracted to those who feed our ego.<P>Let's face it. It your partner did not feed your ego (read: make you feel good about yourself), you never would have married them. If you did not feed their ego, they wouldn't have married you.<P>Stop feeding your partner's ego, calling it shallow and unrelated to 'true love' (however you define THAT), <B>doesn't</B> make it go away.<P>It just leaves it hungry.

Thanks you all. <P>I've quit meeting his need for admiration for a while so I'll work on that and see if I get any results.<P>Beth,<BR>no he didn't come home last night. I haven't heard from him since he left Wed. He said he'd be back in a couple of days. <P>To me a couple of days would be Friday. Maybe to him it's Sat. or Sun.<P><BR>Del<BR>I've been thinking that she must be meeting a need that I'm not meeting. Maybe not. maybe he's just flattered by getting the attention of 2 women. <P><BR>schizzo<BR>maybe we should fill out the questionaire again. He had his done overnight. it took me 3 days to get thru it. <P>He believes that as long as he pays the bills he's fulfilling his duties as a husband. <P>he says "all that other stuff is stupid and a waste of time"<P>

Keo<P>I think alot of spouses bust their bottoms trying to figure out what need isn't being met when they maybe are meeting the needs. It's just that the WS wants a lot of ice cream not just some. I never really thought of it until I responded to your asking for the opinion of OP's. In my case there really were many unmet needs but I bet in a lot it's just the WS being piggy.<P>Del

Lighten up little, Doug... Not one single person here said that ego boosting was shallow... The reference to "temporary feeding of the ego" was quoted from someone else, and, my interpretation of that quote was that it referred to the temporary nature of the "love" experienced in an affair. After a time, an OW generally ceases to feed or stroke a man's ego, and because of the lack of history comparative to the marriage, there is really nothing on which to base a real relationship.<P>Not many here on MB who really want reconciliation would belittle a person's need for admiration. We generally are just learning about what it means!<P>Doug, maybe you could share with us what you as a man would want to satisfy this emotional need? I know it's a tough one for me.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>

Hi Keo,<P>Your situation sounds a lot like mine. I was doing all those things, meeting his needs, I knew what he liked in the way of sex and we had a great sex life, I always complimented him and told him how handsome and sexy he is. So, when he started his affair it just blew me away! We had a good marriage, there were areas that needed work but I believe that is the case with any marriage. It always takes work! One thing I know to be true about my husband is that he is easily sucked into things. He used to do Amway a long time ago. Well, not offend anyone but I think they use brain washing tactics. My h kept spending money like crazy on tapes and that sort of thing. We never made a dime. At that time, I threatened to leave him because we were going broke. Don't get me wrong, I have always been very supportive of my h. BUT, when it came to this, it was making our marriage miserable. I remember that he became very upset when I threatened to leave him. He told me I was never going to leave him. Wow, he left me instead! Anyway, I think that by his working with this woman all the time and all the sleezy things she said and did just wore on him after time. In a sense, she brainwashed him. I have talked to her h and he told me how she operates. So, I think my h just finally caved into her. He did like the attention. THe thing is, I gave him all that kind of attention too but I think he sees some freedom by being with her. When he is with me, he has to be a dad and pay the bills (which by the way, he still has to) and all that other stuff. She has a 16 year old daughter and a 21 year old son. So, in two years, she will have no more children living at home. This is all hard for me. Right now, my h is here. He is outside playing with the boys. Before he went out to play with them, he was putting on his coat. My seven year old said the most wonderful thing to him! He said, "Are you going home dad? Oh, that place isn't your home." I loved that! My h smiled when he said that. I said,"Daddy is home." He smiled when I said that too. I think my h is in that situation where he does love me and he has an infatuation with this ow. So, I am going to play it cool right now. I do have divorce papers I have been working on. I keep having to hide them when he comes over. I keep putting off sending them to the legal aid. I don't know if that is bad or good. <P>I am sorry to ramble. I just know how frustrating it is. I was and am a good wife. Yes, I had areas that I needed to improve upon. I am working on those thing. HOUSEWORK! I am much improved now! That is really my biggest downfall as a wife. But, I told my h that I was trying to meet his biggest need and that was sex. Just hang in there Keo. He may snap out of it one day!<P>Talk to you later!<P>Woozy

Hi Keo,<P>Well, my H did make it home yesterday. He is still in bed so I thought to see how this thread was going. I asked for some imput from him on the subject last night...<P>In addition to what I said in the post above about him liking to feel needed, and liking to solve other peoples problems, he said a funny thing about the need for sex. He said that for years his need for sex was the driving force behing much of how he acted. When he met OW, her need for sex was even greater than his! What a surprise!! When he was "getting it" a bunch when he was with her and "getting it" some when he was with me, he found that he was no longer obsessing about getting it when he was with no one. In other words, he wasn't as "horney" as often as he had been. He claims this lack of "obsessiveness/horneyness" still exists now because of the fact that 1, he is getting older, and 2, he is getting a bunch again when he is home. When I asked what was keeping him loyal now, particularily this past week-end when he was also getting hit with memory triggers there in Oakland, where they had met before, he said that the presevation of our relationship and the thought that I could somehow findout, was the main deterrent. He still makes a point to say that his feelings for her will never change. But, as his feelings for me and us grow, the risk of loosing that will hopefully keep him in line. He also said that he had experienced the "trying to stay friends without sex," sceneario years ago with a college girlfriend, and realized that even with the best intentions, things tend to snowball when you really like and are attracted to the person you are trying to stay friends with. Understanding this, he will not encourage that temptation by calling her. He doesn't like me to add the words "ever again" however, because that is too final. He hopes someday to feel comfortable enough with our situation to "just see how she is doing". Ha! maybe when his nose hairs are growing past his chin and his toenails are 2 inches thick.<P>So, that's the update and the reassurance I got from my H upon his return from 2 weeks away. I hope he speaks truthfully. I don't mind at all being a deterrent.<P>And....about your H not calling you...Show him my web site and ask him to read the section in "Making your marriage a dream vacation" about "Phone calls, emails etc" don't remeber the other thing. If you want I will try to think of a word picture that would address this issue. I bet a lot of women married to travelers would like more contact from their SO's. Let me know if you want me too, coz I need to know what, besides work, he is interested in. For example, a long time ago I wrote Hummingbird a word picture for her H, somehow comparing her relationship with him to deer hunting, because that was his favorite thing to do. She liked the story, but I don't know if she ever gave it to her H. They are fun for me to write, so I don't really mind, and anything I write could be added to my site anyway. <P>Check back later....<P>Beth

Keo,<P>Maybe you were meeting all his needs, though it sounds like he was/isn't meeting yours if he thinks it's all garbage!<P>I really thought I was. I was truly not aware of how much built up resentments were affecting how I treated him. And still I and most people around me thought we had the best marriage.<P>I think I'll start a thread on changes we've made. I read so much of doing plan A, etc., but specific examples are always good.

Keo, <P>Hi, sorry no advice here, just wanted to say hi, and let you know I do follow your story, I just am so totally in a different situation, I never know what to say. You are a good woman and prayers are with you. Dana<BR>PS Your threads are always great

This is just something I have been thinking about. Are there any of you whose spouses cheated on you but you did feel you were meeting all their needs and yet felt as though they were not meeting your needs? In a lot of ways, I did feel like my h wasn't meeting my needs. In fact, according to the book "Surviving an Affair", I should have been the one having the affair. Although, I would never do that. I love my husband too much to cheat on him, even though he is cheating on me. He was working all the time, he didn't help with the kids, he could be demanding. I didn't always feel like I could count on him. You know, for help with the kids and what not. He was here when he got home from work, but not here. I guess I just wondered what some of your opinions were on this. Maybe I should post this as a thread of its own. <P>Woozy

OK, Terri. I promise to try and lighten up... <P>What would make me feel admired, eh? Well, at this point in my life, if my W were meeting my needs for affection and sexual fulfillment, I think I'd feel pretty well admired, too. Maybe not.<P>But hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad at all!