Well, for those of you who haven't followed my recent escapades, I took caring and attentive care of W last weekend and early this week as she had the flu. I continued even after I came down with it on Monday night, thankfully, my case wasn't as severe. I only left the house three times between T-day and yesterday(Wednesday) and two of those times were to retrieve things W had said she would like to eat and drink.<P>Well, it turns out that on the Saturday morning trip and the Tuesday afternoon trip, she managed to sneak in calls to OM while I was gone. I was hurt tremendously. I resolved that if she brought up moving out again, I would ask her to find some temporary living arrangements until she buys her own place.<P>Well, today at lunch, I asked her why she had spent some time straightening up the house yesterday afternoon. She informed me that the real estate appraiser was coming by on Monday(this needed to be done before I could re-fi). I managed to somehow bring up my suspicions of the OM calls and she denied them vehemently. These two calls are <B>very</B> proveable, but I didn't tell her how and let her know hurt it had made me feel. She said that since it didn't happen, I had no one to blame about my feelings but myself.<P>That did it...I then suggested that she find somewhere else to live real soon. I hated like h&11 doing that, but I believe that it is necessary for my own sanity. I can't take the lying anymore. I've got to find a way to let her therapist know all of this without revealing my source(s). Hopefully, I still have an appointment with her on Friday. I have come to believe that she has lied to her therapist, also.<P>I doubt it will do any good(I know the marriage is finished. You should have seen the salivation on W's face when I suggested OM place), but W needs some help or she will never be happy. She's sure not happy with me, but that's partly because I haven't played along with her game. I asked her what impact it would have if I had the phone records subpoenaed. She said none because the calls didn't happen. She has to know I am aware of what happened and just wants to pull my chain. Well, my neck's sore from all of the chain pulling lately, so be done with it!!!<P>Just a rant, folks. There's nothing anyone can do to help me. I turned this horse into the final stretch all by myself. Part of me regrets it tremendously and part of me is happy about the fact that the impact of the lies will soon be gone.<p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited December 02, 1999).]

I just talked to my therapist on the phone. She had had a discussion with W's therapist this morning. She's under the impression it didn't go well. I am meeting with her tomorrow at 11am then with W's evil twin at 5:30pm.<P>My T said she probably pissed her(W'sT) off with some of the comments she made. So I will clue you in on the therapist wars after I get back tomorrow afternoon. Should prove to be interesting.<P>I also have a call into my attorney to see what kind of pickle I would be in if I divulged my sources of information to W's therapist. My T said that W'sT would just attribute it to my wanting to control W, but I'm not doing this to save the marriage, but to save W and future OMs from what she has put us thru this summer. I still love her deeply, but too much water has passed under this bridge. I can see after today, that there is no way W could see her way clear to square things up even if she wanted to, so I think that the big D is probably the best thing for both of us.

Heartpain,<BR>Go directly to Plan B.

H-P,<BR>I think you did right confronting. IF you didn't the lying would continue and eventually you would probably start believing it, at least I wanted too. I guess I'm fortunate(?), my stbx isn't a good liar.<P>Best of Luck

Heartpain. Follow your instincts - they seem to always be pretty good to me.<P>Not very talkative tonite, but wanted to let you know I'm listening.<P>Hang in there.<P>Lori

Geez Heartpain....<P>Lying spouses.....Fighting Therapists...<BR>what else could start going on!!!!<P>UGH!!! I am sorry that she just won't tell the truth....it's such a ridiculous thing - this lying business!!! For God sakes...she has to know that you must know something - and yet she can't bring herself to face it!!!<P>What an awful weight to put on your own shoulders....I actually feel sorry for them sometimes!!! All this adding to the problems swirling in her head...<P>I wouldn't tell her "therapist" a darn thing about how you know what you know!!<P>Just talk to her about the therapy not working with the lying for all this time and why is that.....<P>Put her feet to the fire a little!!!<P>I'll be thinking of you and I hope some light is shed and some progress can start being made somewhere in this mess!!<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba

Derby -- Thanks for the advice, but you don't know my W. Plan B would have just driven her to OM permanently or I would have done it months ago. It's Plan "D" at this point unless there is some earth-shaking change in her.<P>RWD -- This is not the first time I have confronted her about her lies and, just like in the past, she blames my imagination. There's no danger I would start believing her. When my integrity is challenged, my force of will strengthens dramatically, no matter what the situation. This may have been my downfall in this. I really have to believe that with all of the things I have confronted her about, she <B>knows</B> I know, but just can't admit it.<P>She has told me and her therapist that I have always been there for her when she needed me. If this continued contact with OM was due to withdrawal or somesuch, I would not have held it against her, I would have been there for support as I have in the past. I guess that's why all of this hurts so much.<P>lostva -- Lori, you know I appreciate your opinions. I just hope that my instincts haven't failed me here. I know you listen to me and it is appreciated immensely. You appear to be down and I am truly sorry for that. You are one of my pillars of strength. Mega-hugs and my most caring thoughts are headed your way.<P>Sheba -- My warrior princess(what weapon do you carry tonight?), it is your humble and obedient servant. I do so appreciate your responses.<P>Everyone -- In case anyone is interested, I plan on taking notes at both sessions today and will post a note about how things went.<P>As Bartles and James used to say, "I appreciate your support"......<P>She didn't get home until after 7pm last night, so I know she was spending time with OM, probably making her move-in arrangements. <BR>I let her know that I had one of our favorite shows on tape if she was interested and went to bed to read. She slept in the other bedroom(like the night before) and in many ways, I was glad. When we had arguments in the past and went to bed together with issues unresolved, I had much trouble falling asleep. Had a little last night, but it was OK.<P>I'm really curious about what additional material I will find out when I talk to my therapist today. She told me that, in her opinion, my talking to W's therapist isn't going to change anything, but she thinks it's important for me to go ahead with it for my own sake. I agree. Sometimes, my therapist makes me laugh so hard. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I asked her something about what I thought would be a reasonable response from W's Th. There was a moment of silence and she said(with a bit of a chuckle in her voice), "You hear me biting my tongue". She has said that a few times now when we have discussed W's Th.<P>Her therapist doesn't believe anything I say when W has already stated her differing case about some issue. That is why I have toyed with the idea of letting her know how I could prove some of these points. I <B>do</B> intend to let her know that the week before I moved back for the two-week trial in August, that she told OM about her Th "You know, she's really on your side in this". I'm going to tell her about the recent lies, that the drinking has been much heavier than W has told her.<P>In our last joint session, W's Th read me the riot act saying everytime W came in for an individual session "What can I do to make this marriage work?", etc. I intend to ask her how sincere a person asking this can be when they are telling the spouse that they "don't know what I want to do" or "I'm beginning to think I don't want to be married to anyone" or "I'm leaning toward divorce". She has been presenting different sides to different people. There's something wrong here and she needs some help to straighten herself out. I want her to get that help even though we are splitting up.<P>W's Th is so self-righteous and so believes(or wants to believe) everything W says, that I don't believe there is any way to "put her feet to the fire". Oh, how I wish I could!!!<p>[This message has been edited by Heartpain (edited December 03, 1999).]

Heartpain,<P>I know you say you're ruling out Plan B...<P>Don't!<P>If you can stand a <B>very strong</B> Plan B... even for a short while... it is better than Plan D!<P>My W tried to (initially) jam her Plan D dwn my throat... I pray to God... she has finally slowed down. If you jump on he Divorce train... and pile on the fuel... train will go out of control... crash... and burn.<P>Take a bunch of deep breaths....<P><B>You stay!<BR>You make her go!</B><P>It doesn't matter if you think you are forcing her into OM's arms...<P>What you need is a Plan for <B>you</B>!... Not for the both of you ("D")!<P>You don't need to talk to her therapist...<BR>You need Plan B for <B>you</B>...<P>You don't have to prove anything to anyone...<BR>You need Plan B for <B>you</B>...<P>I doesn't matter if she needs help or lies...<BR>You need Plan B for <B>you</B>...<P>Heal yourself... (you can't heal your W)<BR>You need Plan B for <B>you</B>...<P>Jim

NSR(Jim) -- The problem is, I don't think I can stand Plan B. I wouldn't be able to handle it. I know W very, very well, and once she leaves, she will <B>never</B> come back. For some odd reason, I have always felt in my soul, that my life will be short. I don't want to waste a minute on impossibilities. If I am going to have to live my life without W then I want to live it <B>without</B> her. There's no way I could Plan B and not retain some fruitless hope that she might come around. That would eventually be harder that a permanent termination.<P>However, your advice is very much appreciated and very much taken to heart if not always acted upon. I <B>am</B> going to make her go. I'm buying her out of the house and intending on staying there.<P>Once she's gone, I will, by situation, be in a Plan B, at least until D-day. Once she is gone, there is no possible way she could make the changes that would cause me to take her back. So I will definitely be in an effective Plan B.<P>Thanks again, very much, Jim.....

Heartpain,<P>That's all Plan B is for...<P>You're a good man Heartpain... you don't deserve to be treated like you were...<P>Keep posting...<BR>You'll need the support! <BR>Divorce is a <B>hard</B> process...<P>Best wishes... and many prayers... <P>Jim

I know what you are saying. Although I did not have this site while I was going through most of this, I guess in a way I used Plan B. I quit talking to him, so he could decide. Like you I knew he would never come back. The sad thing is, it is not because of the OW, it is because he likes being able to come and go without any responsibility. He calls the kids when it is convient for him. He has shut "our" family out. It hurts but I'm sure one day it will hurt him more. When that day will come I don't know, but someday he will regret and FINALLY have himself to blame. It is sad that through all of this he has still blamed me. For everything. I have accepted that he is to blame for this break-up of our family and our marriage, but it doesn't reduce the pain any. Maybe it just makes you a little more sane. Good luck. Even though it is hard living with the betrayer, it is just as hard if not harder living without them. Hope everything goes well, sounds like you are stronger than maybe you even think.

NSR(Jim) -- Thanks so much. It's nice to know <B>someone</B> feels that way. W has done her best to make me feel worthless.<P>MENTAL -- I, like you, hope that someday, W will come to grips with her part in all of this. Isn't happening now unless it's privately in the deep recesses of her mind. She sure hasn't said anything like this to anyone else. I think she is like your H in that, what she really wants is a teenaged lack of responsibility. She is only 37, but I suspect a MLC here somewhere.<P>Thanks for your thoughts, I just hope I am as strong as you seem to suspect.

My H is 37 too. I really think it is a MLC. I think I went through one about 2 years ago, but I never crossed the boundries of marriage. My values are too important for me. I even tried to re-evaluate my values so that I could accept my H affair easier. Couldn't do it. My values will never change. Now it seems the only way I can stay "up" is by expecting the worse. When the worse comes, it doesn't take me for a loop, but when something good happens my day stays so bright. Keep your head up.