FA--<P>Just posting for an update. It's been a while, and I knew that both you and your H were having some health problems as well.<P>Not wanting to pry, but are things ok? Any improvements on his communications with you and your D's?<P>My situation is status quo. I'd love to say things are improving, but they're not. The "apathy" post says a lot to my current situation. Just trying to stay above water.<P>I've been VERY negative lately at work. Co-workers and subordinates have been all over me, and rightly so. I'm trying so hard not to LB at home, I'm dishing it out elsewhere. It's made my job suffer to the point that I may have to leave. It's not fair to my co-workers, and at the same time, it's not their business what I'm going through at home. Hence, I have no excuses.<P>Chin Up!<P>--keystone

Hey keystone,<P>I'm trying this again, I've been booted off twice so I hope I can finish this time. I'm hanging in there, mostly reading not posting. This is probably going to be long so sit back and read, remember you asked! <P>My health update: As I told you I had gone to the Dr and she wasn't sure if the lump was my thyroid or the lymph node in that area of my neck. Well the blood work all came back fine and the antibiotics didn't do anything. I had the ultra-sound done last Thursday and it shows a mass, a rather large one at that. I have a follow-up tomorrow in the am and it will be referred to another Dr at that time. Other than that I'm as healthy as an ox blood work came back really good and blood pressure was great. <P>As far as H, he still refuses to go to the Dr. So be it, I'm not harping. <P>As you can see by my last statement things are not all that great here. H does not deal with health issues very well. He's very negative and always thinks the worst. I'm not like that and I finally had to tell him to stop, because he was driving me crazy. We did go out last week alone for a few hours but I find us just sitting and not saying much. We really have nothing to talk about. Thats hard for me. We went to a coffee house where a friend of H's was playing(from the 2nd job, male by the way not one of his female ones) . When his friend took a break and sat with us H chatted up a storm. When he left to go play we just sat there watching, no touching, talking, nothing. But then again this was the day I found out about the mass in my neck, so I guess that explains a lot. Since I found out H hasn't been all there and is distancing himself. <P>I'm dealing with this basically alone, along with all the issues with the girls(and let me tell you the issues are getting really bad with them, especially D#1). As much as H says he is trying with the girls I don't see to much of a difference. He is coming home with a better attitude and not so gloomy from work, but he's also increased his hours again. <P>I'm still being the wife I've always been meeting all his needs(and I mean all this time even though I don't benifit from his #1 need). My needs are still not being met but maybe once in a blue moon and thats because its his choice not to be here because of his work. <P>I've had people comment to me about how I'm handling all this and still keeping such a positive mind. Well its hard, but I have to do it for the girls as well as myself. There has been a day or two that I've totally broken down but I have to straighten myself up and keep going for the girls. <P>I can say I'm tired of trying so hard but I have to deal with what life is throwing at me. I can't say for sure that I will live like this forever but I'm here and will continue to do what I have to without LBing. I really have no choice, I have the girls to think about, so my feelings have to be put aside. <P>I don't know if its the resentment that I'm holding on to or what but I'm losing all feelings(I'm almost numb). I do say to him that I love him but it feels so empty when I say it. I wonder sometimes if he can see this or hear it in my voice. I honestly don't think so because all he thinks about is himself. <P>I could go on and on but I'm sure your tired of reading by now. <P>Sorry to hear that things aren't getting any better for you. I'm glad to hear your not Lbing at home but please do yourself a favor and don't take it out on the people you work with. Take it out in the gym(which I know you go to). Thats one reason I walk 10-15 miles a day, thats where I let it all out. <P>Ok enough from me now! Positive thoughts always! Chin up as you say! <P>falsely accused

Keystone,<P>Another medical update here. I went to the Dr today and she said it was a cyst and it is on the bottom left side of my thyroid. So she referred me to another Dr an ENT specialist(ear, nose and throat) and I'll see how it goes from there. <P>H came home from job #1 tonight and he knew I had the appt. today because we talked about it last night and didn't even ask how I made out. I guess I should tell him but who knows I might just not. I guess I'm in the mood to LB so it might have to wait until tomorrow. <P>Be strong!<BR>falsely accused

FA --<P>Sorry about the news. Keep strong, and think positive about the ENT diagnosis. The stress related to what we're all going through here must have an effect on all of our health. Stay strong.<P>I'm sorry to hear that H didn't ask. You indicated that he had a medical phobia of some sort. Perhaps he's afraid to ask because of his fears. At the same point, when's he gonna learn that he has to take care of himself and his health, too?!<P>Sorry to here that D#1 is having more problems with the situation. Again, stay strong. You'll need her support when you're the vulnerable. Don't lose that connection.<P>I'm nearing a decision -- perhaps this weekend, or even later tonight, to talk to my W about separarting. I DON"T WANT TO GIVE MY KIDS THE IDEA THAT I AM ABANDONING THEM. I so fear that, but the tension in the household is getting unbearable.<P>My youngest is in an emotionally unstable frame right know. He's just been told he has to layoff all baseball (he's a big little league stud) for at least a month due to elbow problems. For him it's the end of the world. In reality, it's far from it! Thank goodness it was found now, given the magnitude of potential future problems. If W and I separate, he'll melt down. It won't take much.<P>My D is hit and miss these days. She is close to all these "other sex friends" of my W, and the divorced and single types, too. She keeps asking about them, aboutseeing them and their kids, etc. Scary!!!!!!! I suspect that I'll be a real bad guy for separating, and these "friends"<BR>of my W will just re-enforce that. I fear that my D will get swayed to their point of view and align against me. It will be hell! She's my daughter, my first born, my "Mini Me". <P>The OM in the EA seems to have taken a back seat. I'm not sure if my W has just broken off contact, but is using her other "friends"<BR>as an emotional crutch, or there's still something going on. <P>It's frustrating, I'm really negative, work s**ks, and I just outright exhausted. I'm not a quitter, but I'm at that point. I keep thinking: Is this the right decision? Am I missing something? Is there something I can do to change to turn this around? And, yet everytime I'm with my W, she rarely looks at me, rarely talks to me, shows NO signs of affection in any kind. (Do you know how p***ed I am when I see her hug and kiss her friends and yet I haven't gotten that in months!!!<P>I know you know. I know others on the site know. I'm trying to keep my chin up, to find a "silver lining", to find humor. I just cannot find it. Emotionally, I want to close the door to my office and cry. Can't do it at home, can't do it at work. Maybe the car ride to/from work. Will it help? I don't think so. When's the dream going to end, and I wake up in reality again?!<P>Even the escape of my job no longer applies. I'm contemplating leaving a job that has brought me great success and awards on an international level. Who cares! I'd give it all up for my marriage. I've told my W that many times. It's all hollow, without meaning. I'm numb.<P>Sorry I had to talk about me. This was suppose to be an update about you. I just really needed to vent. I hope you understand<BR>.<BR>--keystone

keystone,<P>Vent away, it will only do you good to get it all out. I guess its my turn to vent a little too. <P>I understand all to well how you are feeling about now. I stay because of my girls. Honestly, if I didn't have them I probably would have been gone a long time ago. I think this is made so much harder because there are kids involved. <P>Its so very hard for them to understand that its not their fault. I tell my kids that all the time but thats not the message they get from their father. <P>Being that you are working a lot of hours, you have no clue as to what your W is telling your kids. Just like my H has no idea what I say to our girls. I know I'm doing the right thing by telling them H works to provide the best for them and that any problems we are having has to do with us not them. It still makes it very hard on them because they feel that he doesn't want to be involved with them. <P>You have to be honest to a point with them, they don't need to know everything. Your D will be pulling away from you anyway at her age. Thats a normal thing with girls(I see it with my D and her friends at this age). If shes anything like my older D it will effect her in a way that she won't show it outwordly to everyone else, but she might be a little put off by things you say and do, and she might just have an attitude with you. I have also noticed my older D hanging with more friends whos parents are either separated or divorced. It seemed very strange to me at first but they all seem to have a bond when it comes to their family lives. <P>Now with your son, he sounds like my younger D very emotional. She takes things very hard and holds them in and blames herself constantly for everything. I think its hard on both for different reasons and you have to handle them very differently. <P>My older daughter can rationalize things so it makes it easier to sit and talk to her. The younger one I hug and hold a lot more and talk less. Thats what she needs. You have to find out which situation will work best with each child. I don't sit down with them together because they think so differently. Maybe you should try it individually. <P>As far as your W is concerned, maybe this will be her wake up call maybe not. Maybe this is what she is looking for(separation), Who knows?! I know myself being a stay at home mom its hard for me to leave(I would never leave my girls and they would never agree to stay with him) or to have him leave because of finances. So I just keep hanging on.<P>You also sound like your in need of a vacation from the job. You sound really stressed because of your home life and work. Maybe a week or two away by yourself or with just you and your W would help. I don't think Im really in a position to say that but its just a suggestion! <P>Now I'm going to vent a little. I think a lot of the reason why my H is distancing himself is due to my recent health problem. <P>But and its a big one, I have said before H doesn't like me to leave the house by myself(I know what he is thinking when I do, it shows in his body language and in his words). I have never done anything to warrant this kind of thinking in him. <P>Well the past week or so I've been venturing out by myself during the day. I'm tired of being caged up in this house. Its not like I'm going shopping for myself because I never do that, but to get things for the house. I haven't been asking my girlfriend to go because I need some time away for myself. I know for a fact H doesn't like this but as far as I'm concerned I'm not doing anything wrong. Now if I tell him so and so went with me then hes ok with it. <P>I also walk with another friend at night(early evening you can say), and I don't think he likes this either. Mind you these are all married females I'm going places with. <P>I've told him everytime I've emailed the old HS friend so I'm being honest with him about that. <P>Heres my point I'm trying to get to, its NOT ok for me to do these things but on the other hand it IS ok for him to take off by himself and email female friends. Not only that but about 5 times now in the past week or so I have walked in the room while hes been on the computer(to put laundry away or go to the bathroom)and hes instant messaging with one of his female friends and he clicks off really fast and puts a web site that he has minimized on the screen. I ask myself what is he hiding??? <P>This to me is such a double standard. I don't say anything because I have found that if I do it turns into an LB and right now I feel better about myself not LBing. Plus it just adds more stress to the household. <P>I understand how totally frustrated you are, because I'm there also. The numb feeling are there and I don't know how to lift them. Sometimes I think H thinks things are ok because hes so blind as to what is going on here because hes NEVER here!!!! <P>The other night he told me he needs help trying with D#1. I honestly told him that I have no clue as to how to help. I'm dealing with her on a day to day basis because things have gotten out of control again with her. Examples: progress report failing 4 classes after bringing up the grades 2nd quarter to honor roll, setting things on fire with matches(she says it relieves stress), her hyperness. These are the types of things I'm dealing with and all alone I might add. I can't tell him do this or that with her when I don't know what to do and I just deal with it when it pops up. <P>This is life and dealing with kids and problems and as long as he hides out at work and doesn't deal with us as a family I don't see much of a future. <P>I guess I needed to get that out as much as you did in your last post. <P>Thanks for listening. I hope it all makes some kind of sense because I was interrupted many times while typing this. <P>Positive thoughts! <BR>falsely accused

FA --<P>I'm real worried about your D#1. I'm sure you got it handled, but the "matches" sounds like something for concern (MOHO). <P>Your health could very well be pushing him away. As I recall, didn't a brother or some immediate family pass away which triggered a whole series of events? Perhaps he senses a replay, and it's his defense mechanism.<P>Getting out is something you have to do. It's also something my W has to do. But, it's who with and where that concerns me. These "other sex friends", the divorced and recently separated -- it scares me. It feels like she's not telling me the full story. She tells me only what she must, or for what she fears the kids will "spill the beans" about.<P>She does almost nothing with her married friends anymore. In a way, its almost like a MLC or rebellion. After all, she did just recently turn 40.<P>This week, I was at a kids event. W arrived late with my son who just finished a game elsewhere. W walked right past me, said "hi" to her D, then went off to join all her single friends" where she proceeded to spent the rest of the evening. Two hours. Yes, I got an occasional look or response, but in reality, I didn't exist. I was no more significant than some stranger in the stands.<BR>She just laughed and joked and told stories, and I felt that if I envaded her space, I was unwelcome. I saw how her eyes lit up with her friends, how her expressions were. They used to be that with me, but no longer. <P>I'm a stranger now, a passerby. I sat/stood for two hours, having escaped from work early, and cheered on my D, alone.<P>I worry about what you said about my W maybe talking to my kids. Also, about my D growning apart from her parents. I can only do the best I can, but I am trying. I'm there if they need me, if they want me. Often times, I'm there (as any caring parent would be), even when they don't want me. The stress and tension from the marital woes will only make it worse.<P>I'd love two weeks off, but that cannot happen until late spring. I'd love for my W to go along, but it would NEVER HAPPEN. She clearly doesn't want to be around me anymore. <P>For your info, she has still not used the birthday gift (spa day -- "realy neat" according to all the women I've heard from, all envious) She has also made no mention about the lost diamond from the engagement ring.<P>It's late. I've got to go, get some sleep, and do it all over again tomorrow. Maybe tomorrow will be better, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't know what this weekend will hold, but I'm thinking about telling my W I'm moving out. Separating. I've got another post looking for some advice.<P>I'll check back in the am, PST.<P>--keystone

keystone,<P>Yes your are correct that a lot of my H's problems stem from the death of his younger brother. I know that has a lot to do with him distancing himself from what I'm going through, but H has never been one to deal with illness of any kind thats just him. When ever the kids were sick when they were younger it was always left up to me to deal with. Till this day he feels they are mine to handle and deal with that as long as hes bringing in the paycheck then I should be able to handle everything else. <P>H is very old fashion. I can't seem to break through that barrier that he has put in his beliefs that a womens place is in the home and to deal with the house and kids. This is the way he was raised by his parents. H is the spitting image of his father and I have discussed this with my MIL and I know for a fact that she has not been happy either for some time now in her marriage of 44 years. Its very hard to do anything about it when I am financially dependent on him because he has never allowed me to work after the kids were born. <P>On to the D#1 issue. Believe me when I tell you it scared the H*ll out of me when I came home from my walk to find out from D#2 what had taken place with D#1 setting napkins on fire(I left them home alone while I walked with my girlfriend for an hour and figured at their ages 14, 12 they should be able to handle it). <P>Well I have to say I didn't really yell at her I just told her I didn't expect that type of behavior from her and I will not tolerate it and sent her to her room for the night. I also took the candle which I was allowing her to have in her room away. <P>The next day I took some photos out of my brother from when we were in our teens. They were pictures of him in a burn unit of a hospital. He was burned(1st, 2nd, 3rd degree all over different parts of his body) when a spray paint can exploded on his dresser when a candle accidently fell over and set other things on fire. I showed her that this is what could have happened to her by what she did. I explained how accidents happen and that fire is not something to play around with. At 14 you think she would have known this already. <P>She broke down and told me that watching the flame releases a lot of the tension out of her. This is the scarey part for me. The more her father ignores her the worse its getting. I can say at least the line of communication from her to me is still open. I have to keep it that way. I did inform him when he came home that night what had happened. He hasn't said a word to her about it, which in some ways I think is good because he always yells and I find I don't get anywhere with her by yelling. <P>Last night she didn't even say goodnight to her father(he was home last night). He asked me later about this. I said I didn't know what to tell him(except shes been in a B****y mood for the last couple of days) , I did think to myself if she forgot to say goodnight then why didn't he get of his @$$ and go into her and say goodnight to her. It works both ways. But instead of LBing I just kept my mouth shut and told him I was heading to bed. <P>Sometimes I think of what my mom went through as a single parent and thats how I feel. I don't have a partner here I just have a financial supporter but then again my mom never had that either. <P>I agree with you that getting out is something I need to do. But like you said about your W, it depends what kind of company I am keeping. But then again half the women my H hangs with in work are either divorced or in bad marriages. I on the other hand hang with other married women. <P>I give you a lot of credit as a dad who attends his kids sports events and is there for them. Make sure no matter what happens that this continues to be something you do for them. They will never be able to throw it back in your face that you weren't there for them. Your D will pull away from you at this age but probably not your W. Your W will become her shopping partner and things like that. I have found that this is what usually happens to girls at the age your daughter is at. Try not to let it get to you its a part of them growing up. <P>I didn't mean to worry you about what your wife might be telling the kids while you work the long hours. But the facts are there that things will slip out. I have on occasion slipped and said somethings that I wish the kids didn't hear about H being late and not knowing where he is and that he has a cell phone in the truck and all it would take is a simple phone call, etc. <P>I know it happens. I can only think before I say things now especially when they are here. Usually now they are the ones to say to me boy dad could have at least called. So even though I said it under my breath they heard it and they remember it. <P>I know the hurt you are feeling by your W being "happy " around her friends. My H is the same way. He's even that way at work. I mentioned this to him and he says he has to be that way in the 2nd job because hes working with the public. I just don't understand why he can't be that way around here. <P>Well as far as the time off you need I understand how that goes. My H gets 4 weeks every year but they never allow him to take it when he wants to, like in the summer when the kids are off. It too hard for us to take the kids out of school in the winter to go any place, especially with D#2 being in excelled classes. <P>I will say I did LB last night on another issue. Didn't mean too but it happens. I went and bought all the paint for the inside of our house yesterday. He asked me when "I" was going to start and I said probably Mon when everyone isn't home. He then asked if I wanted him to take time off for him to help and I said no thats ok, I'm use to doing it alone. I know he got upset but I was just speaking the truth. Not that he would have ever really taken the time off to help(he would have said hes too busy now at work and why don't you put it off a while). I know him like a book!!<P>Well this is getting really long now, so I'm gonna get my butt out of here!<P>falsely accused<BR>

FA --<P>Happy St. Patrick's Day...<P>You know, this stuff is getting so wierd, I could almost write a book. Almost like Harley Jr.!<P>I've got to run, but I did read your post. You may want to talk to your youngest about the matches, too. Perhaps her big sister will leave an impression that you don't want her to have. I still can't believe your H said nothing about it!<P>Maybe the painting will give you time alone to contemplate. Or, like me, maybe you just crank up the radio, grab a beer, and knock out the work. Either way, your independance should be a signal to your H that your not gonna wait until he comes around.<P>Have a good day. I'll try to check in when I return to my office.<P>--keystone

keystone,<P>Happy St Patricks Day to you too!<P>I almost forgot that it was that day already. Here in NJ the Temp has dropped over 20* since I woke up this morning(4:30am) and we are getting snow flurries now. Yesterday it was close to 70. Go figure!! <P>As you can see by my last post I'm extremely frustrated. I sat and read it over before I read yours and I can't believe I said all that. I guess its all building up inside me. <P>I think the painting will do me a lot of good! Like you said the radio or CD's in my case will be cranking but not the beer(I don't drink at all, alcoholism runs in families you know! I'm proud to say I won that battle from my family!) I'm not waiting and it will give me something to do. <P>D#2 was extremely scared when her sister was lighting the napkins on fire, so much so she removed herself from the house. I did speak to her also and I told her she did the right thing by telling me and staying away from her sister. <P>I think the majority of us here could write a book. I can also see why women in my situation would stray(not saying I'm going to, but I can honestly see why). <P>falsely accused<P>P.S. I finally got up the nerve to call and make the appt with the ENT today, its set for next Friday the 24th. By the way H still doesn't know about the Dr visit from the other day. <BR>

FA --<P>Well, no flurries here. Just mid-70's, Southern Cal weather!<P>Glad to hear that you talked with your youngest. And that she had the presence of mind to get away from her. It sounds like the girls will also need to stick together, but you just hope not under such stressful circumstances.<P>I'm glad to hear that you finally set the ENT doc appointment. Again, this stress thing plays with all of our health. I'm sure the mass isn't serious, but you MUST get it checked out.<P>Glad to see that you're not reaching for the beer. I drink socially (rarely), but my W has been drinking alot more these past few months. It was one of the major sources of LB's that I've had, and goes alot toward our marital woes. It was even that I was finding empty bottles or six pack boxes that she has hidden, as if not to be discovered by me. I am so concerned about the drinking and the message it sends to my kids. She's not always what I would consider a role model in that area.<P>Remember, this is a place to vent. If need be, I know that I have written pages and pages of stuff -- just to get it out oif my system -- then, hit the "clear" button. Something about writing it out has been cathartic. <P>Hang in there. If I don't "post back" before the weekend comes, have a good one. Stay healthy and try to find something to smile about.<P>--keystone<P>FYI, I'm not planning on telling my W this weekend that I want to separate. I just wish she would give me some response, some sign, anything, that she wants our marriage to work. <P>--ks

keystone,<P>Lucky you, 70's my kind of weather!! <P>Glad to hear that your not going to tell your W this weekend. Its a hard decision to make. I wish for your sake she would show some signs of something. I would have hoped by now that she would have said something about the ring. Maybe you can bring it up casually and kind of feel out what she thinks. <P>When H hit me with him moving out and separation at the end of last month, I didn't know what to do. I'm the one trying to keep this all together, but I somehow felt that maybe that would be for the best if he did go. But the whole financial picture took over my mind and I made the decision to talk to him. <P>Being I'm in a situation where the girls would stay with me (because thats what they want) I would have to stay in the house. I have no where else to go. He at least has his mom & dads house he could stay at. We can not afford for either one of us to get another place. <P>Sometimes I think why am I doing this to the kids and myself. I'm sure you are having some of the same thoughts. <P>I've said this to you before and I'm going to say it again. I don't think your W is setting a good example with your kids with the drinking. I just hope and pray for your sake and those kids that she is not getting in a car with them after she is drinking. The thought of that really scares me.<P>This is probably her way of dealing with all the things going on in your marriage but thats no way to deal with it. Thats a total cop out. It could also be one of the reasons she is distancing herself from you. She might feel that if she has had a drink or two(or more?) you could tell and would get upset, so instead she stays away from you. You have every reason to get upset if it is involving those kids. Just the fact that she is hiding it from you makes me wonder. Just keep those kids safe.<P>I know this is a place to vent but sometimes (and I have said this before), I just don't feel like I belong because neither of us has actually betrayed(as far as I know anyway). I know what I did with the old HS friend could have been considered an EA and in some ways probably was starting to get to that point. I really don't know what to think about all H's female friends in work. <P>I have done that clear post thing a lot. Sometimes I think about writing in a journal but I really hate to write things down like that because if H comes acrossed it he probably would take it the wrong way. <P>My H has to work all weekend so I will probably be busy readying myself for painting by spackling and caulking. I also have some grout work to do on my tile floor in the bathroom. So I will be keeping myself busy and that will make me smile! <P>Have a good weekend! I hope for your sake things go a little better than past weekends have. <P>falsely accused<P>

FA --<P>Thanks again for the support. <P>Yes, I do worry about her driving with the kids. I think she'd be responsible, but it does scare me. I've had conversations along these lines before. Even the kids had made passing references to her drinking, including that she seems to drink more when she's around the OM (EA). My W insists that I was the one that planted those thoughts in their minds. Remember, as we've said before, kids are more preceptive than we give them credit for.... <P>If I bring it up again, it is a major LB. If I should get a drink at a restaurant, or a beer at home, I know that it will get back at me. It's a tough line to walk.<P>I'm not going to talk about the ring yet. I'm not ready, and I am almost curious on how long it's going to be before she asks about it. She is still wearing her wedding bands. I catch myself looking to see if she's wearing them when I return from work, or an errand.<P>She's out tonight with the kids, watching a game with alot of her single/divorced friends. They were then all going out to dinner to celebrate St. Pat's Day. I, on the other hand, am expecting to finish work (the entire shift is working late tonight) about 1130pm. (BTW, I'll be curious to see if the kids bring up any drinking from tonight!)<P>RE: Moving out...<P>We could probably scratch some money to get another place, but it would be uncomfortable. I don't want to sell the house cause of the schools, as well as the disruption to my kids routine. I'm also not close with my family, so moving in with them is out of the question. I'm still sorting it all out.<P>As far as whether you should be on this site... It deals with marriage rebuilding. It doesn't limit it's scope to betrayers and betrayed. It could be anything. <P>If this site helps you in any way, stay. I've probably got to go away for awhile since I'm getting negative. But, I'll lurk just the same. <P>Often times, simply lurking allows for you to see things from another perspective. That alone could provide a key to rebuilding.<P>Anyway, enough of a lecture.<P>I have to go. have a great weekend. Enjoy the break from your H, and paint like the wind!<P>--keystone<BR>

FA --<P>Ironic note of the night...<P>My W said she was going to try to get a sitter so we could go to dinner and a movie on Sunday. Wow! Out of left field!<P>Then, we heard a rumor that my kids have an commitment (game) that we had been previously led to believe was not going to happen. <P>Now it looks like it might not happen. For a moment, I was thinking that this would provide an opportunity to see if she mentioned the engagement ring and other things on the agenda.<P>Guess I'll have to wait.<P>Maybe I'll do the taxes instead...<P>--keystone