BBNC,<BR>please go to post from FH&L titled HisNeeds/HerNeeds Question. I posted there to you and need your wisdom if you don't mind.<BR>I have read your other posts and find them very inspiring. And as I said in my other post to you, my H read one of them and found it helpful for himself. I think it helps him to read what another man has to say on this issue of infidelity. He is the betrayer and refuses to work through this with me. He blocks it out. <P>As you will read I am still struggling and could use some advice on how to cope with the ugliness that keeps creeping up and haunting me. I don't want to think about any of this and I know me and H need to lean on each other as well as God for our strength and guidance. My H said he would be interested to read other posts that I give him. Seems when I try to explain what I am going through he turns a deaf ear, but when he read your post he talked to me and was more of a comfort than he has ever been through this. Guess it helps him to see and read that there are others who go and are going through what I am and it somehow wakes him up a little.<P>His porn addiction is abated for the time being but I know it won't last. He told me he resents me a little for not having the freedom he wants to do this. I don't stop him when he does this but I do express my feelings and the fact that as long as he is doing this(Which is a lot when he does) it keeps him from connecting in our relationship. <P>His cheating and the porn do nothing to help me get past the pain. And for two weeks he has managed to not have any porn but he does have a problem with this and it has gone on for many years. He refuses outside help for this and says he wants me to help him. OKay.<BR>I have and now he resents me because he wants to be able to feel free to have the porn, but at the same time he knows it is wrong. <P>I just wanted him to understand that as long as he is into this and knowing he had sex with someone else causes me to feel so unwanted by him in every sense. Of course he tells me this is not so, but his actions speak louder. Any advice you may have on helping me deal with the pain when it hits would be greatly appreciated. Like I said, your posts possess more wisdom and insight than I am able to muster at this time and perhaps my H will find some insight for himself if he reads what another man has to say on the subject of infidelity. Thank you for your time in advance. Sorry so long of a post. Dev2(Dana)<p>[This message has been edited by devastated2 (edited March 16, 2000).]

Dear Devasted2,<P>Of course you are 'welcome' for my time. There are few things in life that I find more meaningful than helping others salvage their marriages and lives using the wisdom God gave me to endure my own pain.<P>Your situation strikes me as being the flip side of the one I faced. I had a very strong marriage before my wife was caught spiritually off guard and succumbed to the affair. Over three years, the affair caused almost incalculable damage to every aspect of our lives. <P>In your situation, the affair is a symptom, rather than a cause of your marital problems. If I understand your situation correctly, your husband had a one night stand with someone he had no emotional commitment to. While the pain that this betrayal can cause you is very real, I am more concerned with the underlying problems in your relationship.<P>Sometimes, we need a wake-up call to realize that things are not right in our lives. I hope that your husband will be able to see the present situation as his wake-up call. <P>There are serious emotional problems between you that need to be resolved. It sounds like your husband is partially in a state of emotional withdrawal. Strange as it may seem, you might have to discover and address the root issues that caused him to withdraw before he will be able to be there as strongly for you as my wife was for me.<P>As to the porn issue, this is not something that you can tackle in the way you have presently chosen. Pornography is a terribly tempting vehicle for men to live out their sexual fantasies without any emotional entanglement. It is sex without having to consider anything but their own wants. I have tried it in the past, and found its allure powerful. Fortunately, I never let it get to the point where I was addicted. It is not in my life now, and I pray it never will be again. <P>Because your husband has allowed the arrowhead of pornography to fully enter him <BR>(see my post entitled: "Truths I learned..." for a fuller decsription of this concept), he is now drawn almost irresistably to this sin. If you try to be his accountability partner, given the other problems in your relationship, he will just come to resent you, associate you with denial of pleasure, and withdraw from you even further.<P>God can free him, if your husband wants to be free. That's a big 'if.' In order to want to give up something that has been a huge positive in his life (from his point of view), he will need to have a greater goal in mind. Hence, your need to address the underlying problems.<P>I have learned that sex in a wonderful relationship is infinitely better than the hollow gratification which comes from porn. Not easier, but better. I pray that your husband will 'catch the vision' and yearn to be free. As long as he is involved in porn, there are subtle, and not so subtle ways in which it is damaging his relationship toward you. Because the damage is not readily apparent, men often tell themselves that they aren't hurting anyone. But this is not true. I's just that he won't be able to see the damage until he's out of the addiction.<P>Whew! I hope that gives you a starting point for the road that lies ahead. But you won't get far on the journery if you aren't both in a right relationship with God. I'm not sure where both of you are with Him right now, so it's hard for me to advise further.<P>Please feel welcome to ask if I can continue to help.<P>BrokenButNotCrushed <BR> <P><p>[This message has been edited by BrokenButNotCrushed (edited March 16, 2000).]

BBNC,<P>Thank you for reading and repling to my post.<BR>And you understand correctly. H had a one night stand with some woman he met in a bar. This happened when I was out of town taking care of my parents for two weeks. It took him over a month to tell me so he exposed me to the threat of STD's which I immediately went to get tested for the very next day after his disclosure to me. And of course there is the very real threat of AIDS which I will be tested for soon. So not only was the cheating devastating so was the fact that he not only put himself at risk but me as well. I could not believe how he could forget about our marriage so easily and then to be so inconsiderate (to say the very least) as to expose me to the consequences of his thoughtlessness. <P>And you are right, I cannot help my H break his addiction. For one thing he still refuses to accept he has an addiction and believes he can do this without any counseling of any kind. I do know and realize and have for some time that there are many issues that need addressed with my H. And I have tried to get to the root of what has caused him to withdraw from being commited in our relationship as well as him dealing with many issue of his past that he has blocked out due to it causing him pain. He refuses to deal with it and continues to take the stance that he deals with painful issues by blocking it out. Thus, the porn.<BR>H did say that when he cheated on me it was a wake up call for him. He realized that he was not and had never been commited in this marriage. But, he just wants to move on now and forget the past and start over. However, I have tried to tell him that if we don't deal with his demons that they will only resurface. And he doesn't see how distant he becomes when he is into his porn. However, when he is trying to go without it he becomes somewhat distant, and of course resentful of me. <P>Right now things are, well, I guess you could say pleasant between us. No fighting, no bad comments to each other. I do my best to be in a good mood around him and see where this lead. As far as his relationship with God, He resented Him for a very long time because of things that went wrong in his life before he met me. Since, he has been working on this at his own pace by listening to bible verses before going to sleep at night. However, when he has had access to porn, he doesn't do this. Perhaps the guilt keeps him from listening to God's word. I on the other hand go to church and love my faith. He sometimes goes with me but for the most part does not and he is not of my faith and has not put any effort into finding a church to belong to like he used to so long ago before I met him. I don't push him to go to church but rather try to encourage him by my example and I have told him many times that I am more than willing to go to any church he chooses as well as my own. I am trying here but so far he has done nothing to find a church or even make an attempt. I cannot do this for him, like the porn. This he has to decide for himself and do on his own. <P>And, unfortunately in the meantime I feel that I have to continue to be the stronger one, as I have been many times in this marriage and not show H my weak side. Seems when I do he withdrawls and gets depressed. He has leaned on my many times but when I need him he draws back into a shell of silence. Deep down I believe he feels he isn't good for anyone and knowing he caused this pain I have he cannot and will not face it with me. <P>Sorry this is so long. I hope I have managed to answer your questions and give you a little better insight. I am praying daily and nightly and in between for God's help through this, but it would be so helpful to know my H is there for me to help me when I feel so helpless. For a very long time I have felt alone in this marriage and I want us to have a partnership where we can openly share with each other and not fear that it will cause withdrawl. <P>He says he loves me and wants this marriage but I honestly don't think he truly knows how to have a close intimate relationship with anyone. He has blocked and cut himself off from so much for so long that it has become his comfort along with self absorbing into the pornography. I have been here this long and I keep praying that God will open my H's eyes wider to see the light of saving grace and the wonderful possiblities of having a close, loving and intimate relationship in this marriage, as well as one with God. If only he could put God first in his life then the rest would follow. I think he may be afraid to let go of what he has become use to in his life, like an alcoholic fears giving up what he has become to believe is his best friend, the drink. <P>Again, thank you for getting back to me. I do appreciate your input and anything esle you may think of that I can do further in this to keep me from losing my mind would be greatly appreciated. I have some internet sites given to me from a wonderful friend about porn addiction and co-dependency. I have alot of reading to do on this and much to learn.<BR>

Dear Devatstated2,<P>You have a solid grasp of what you are up against. You also have a great attitude, all things considered. Now you need a miracle! (I do believe in miracles...)<P>Consider showing my last post to your husband. I hope that he will feel some connection with me, as I really do understand the addiction from which he suffers. I would be willing to email back and forth with him to help him realize that repression and denial aren't the answer. God is.<P>As you have recognized, your husband is trying to fill that void in his life with sexual sin. But even he became alarmed at where that was taking him. In time, though, I am concerned that this alarm will subside and he will be more difficult to reach. Pray your hardest now, as this is a critical time. And be as much of a 'giver' as possible to encourage him. He needs all the encouragement you can muster.<P>Enough about him. Let's focus on you for a moment. I'm truly sorry at how unfair this situation is. It's obvious that you have been the strong one in your marriage, and now in your time of need he is not able to be there for you as he should. But while your husband may not really comprehend your hurting, God does.<P>Allow me to share from personal experience. God doesn't promise us a happy life, here. My own life has been surprisingly unhappy. Yet, I credit whatever wisdom I now have with my obedient suffering. <P>I hope that the major breakthrough in my marriage will result in a season of happiness for me. But, even if that doesn't happen, I know I have rewards stored up in heaven, where they will last forever.<P>When you feel discouraged by your marital situation, focus your hope on heaven, and the eternal rewards that you are gaining each day. It's helped me a great deal.<P>May God bless you and keep you, and strengthen you day by day to do His will.<P>In His Love,<P>BrokenButNotCrushed <P> <P><p>[This message has been edited by BrokenButNotCrushed (edited March 17, 2000).]

BBNC,<P>Thank you again for your reply to me. I am trying my very best to be positive and encourange my H to do what is right. There is so much ground to cover here and today at work when I had free time I wrote in my journal, exploring the past and my feelings toward it. I use this as my therapy and have for many years.<P>There never has been a real human being to whom I could trust and confide my most inner thoughts and secrets. That is why I chose a long time ago to write down everything I think, feel and would say to another person if I could. It helps me the sort out everything, However, today I sorted out some things I didn't understand at the time they were happening and now after years of being in this and what happened 6 months ago I see things a bit clearer than I did then.<P>It was not a comfort to me but I am grasping more understanding of just where this marriage may be headed if H and I don't get a miracle in our lives very soon. I don't mean to be vauge(sp) but things from the past haunt me sometimes when I think back and compare to now. <P>I thank God in heaven for my daughter. If I didn't have her in my life I do believe I would self distruct at times when I feel so overwhelmed I want to escape into nomans land. She keeps me grounded. <P>I have come to realization today after much contemplation that in the beginning of our marriage my H did not love me as I loved him and he immediately withdrew from me and my daughter. Stupid me(too close to the situation at the time) thought he was dealing with too much stress from work. But all the sleepless nights he had, headaches, anxiety attacks and nervousness and angry outbursts, not to mention the withdrawl from me sexually I have come to finally understand he was experiencing much guilt. Guilt from being married to someone who love him so much and he knew deep down that he didn't have that kind of love for me at the time. Since, after seven years I believe he has learned to love me but still doesn't have that kind of love we all hope and dream to have with someone. Thus, he continues to hide and gratify through porn. In this way he doesn't run the risk of having a broken heart like he did in the past. In other words, it is safe with me because he never let me in his heart fully and still cannot as long as he keeps his distance with pornography and blocking the truth out. <P>So where does that leave me? At this time I cannot say. I know I love my H completely and have given my heart openly. He has nothing to fear from me but I feel I have everything to fear when it comes to having a broken and shattered heart. <P>I do need a miracle, we need a miracle.

Dear devastated2,<P>It sounds like you have made some real progress in the last few days. I know you don't feel better yet, but you are on the right road!<P>Two suggestions. First, I understand what you mean about imagining what you would say to another person if you could trust them totally. Have you ever tried pouring out your innermost feelings to God in the same way that you would to another person who was there in the room with you? During my recovery period, I learned on a whole new level what it means to cry out to God. <P>I found your insights on the emotional dynamics of your early married years most illuminating. Have you ever gone to your husband and asked his forgiveness?<P>Your initial reaction may be, "What for? All I did was love him!" But from his perspective, you threatened his very identity. You were trying to emotionally take from him more than he had to give, and to a man who has his own problems to deal with, this can be absolutely terrifying. Of course, he withdrew; it was to him a matter of survival! But then he felt terribly guilty, hence all the reactions that you described.<P>You both made mistakes in the way that you handled things back then. How could you not? You had no experience 'being married.' We learn by trial and error. The problem is, after the initial errors, he stopped trying!<P>I hope this encourages you to more deeply understand, and utimately, to address the mistakes of the past. With God's help, it is yet possible to turn things around. <P>I will pray for you.<P>BrokenButNotCrushed<BR>

BBNC,<P>Thank you again for getting back to me. Yes, I have poured out my heart to God in the same way I write what I feel. Cried many tears doing this, when I talk to Him I feel so humbled. But I still write as a way of using therapy. <P>When I read that you said I should ask forgiveness from my H, you were right I was<BR>wondering, "What for?" But as I read on I better understood what you meant. I didn't realize I was taking and threating his identity with my love. I was under the impression that he loved me as I loved him and as much. But with your input I can better understand that what I was willing to give him was overwhelming at the time and he withdrew because he didn't know how to handle it. <P>Yes, I went into this marriage with so much positive that I didn't stop to think that he didn't feel the same way. Assuming can be a horrible creature. So, I will ask for his forgiveness in this matter. I am presently learing to detach with love from him. <P>Tonight while I was gone he came home from work and did his porn thing. And I am trying to learn how to not let this affect me or my mood. Not easy, but I am leaning much on God for help and understanding. When my H does this which is constant, I don't feel like being around him or have him touch me. It is difficult to act like I don't care. I just feel like I am a replacement for what he REALLY wants and I am better than nothing since he can't or doesn't have these fantasy women to act out with. However, most of the time he has already satisfied himself and ignores me. <P>So, I will do the best I can to detach with love and find my own happiness. But as I told LisaM, I cannot wait forever for H to wake up. I have a life to live too. I would love for it to be with him but he has many decisions to make and he has to make them on his own. I have given him no reason to think I will hurt him and he knows he can trust what I say in regards to loving him and being here for him. But we all have our limits. I have been going through this ever since we have been married. Don't you think it is time for him to start being what he should in this marriage and stop selfabsorbing? I have been patient and with God's help I will do what I can do be patient some more but I can't wait forever. <P>

Dear devastated2,<P>I'm so sorry for the pain you are feeling. I know it was a disappointment when your H went back two the porn after two weeks of abstinance. But until the other pieces come together, that was inevitable.<P>Please don't despair! I'd like to suggest the book, "As Silver Refined" by Kay Arthur. It helped me to better understand and cope with the 'terrible D's.'<P>I know God is pleased with your receptivity to the concept of asking for your H's forgiveness. It is a hard thing, and many would have balked at it. But because it is hard, the impact it can have is powerful. Choose your timing carefully. This may be your best opportunity to emotionally connect with him.<P>You really grasped the essence of what I was trying to convey. Listen to your words: 'But with your input I can better understand that what I was willing to give him was overwhelming at the time and he withdrew because he didn't know how to handle it.' <BR> <BR>This understanding takes time to sink in. Even under ideal conditions, our emotions rarely adjust overnight, and your situation is far from ideal. This is a new insight. Give it time.<P>When your H continues down his errant path, please meditate on what you said, and in it find new compassion. Your H didn't become like he is today in a vaccuum. You unknowingly pushed him in that direction. He still is responsible for his own choices, of course, but your own mistakes have played a part.<P>To draw a parallel to my own life, I have, in a number of areas, really hurt my wife's long term development. I was a person who was always on time. My wife was always late. Early in our relationship, I was ignorant of so many truths, and I exerted great pressure on her to become like me in the area of timeliness.<P>Well, she learned to be on time (mostly). But it came at the price of her becoming neurotic over it. She experiences so much stress over timeliness now, that I have a thousand times regretted how I acted early on in our marriage. But I helped to cause the problem, and now I have to help her as much as I can.<P>I realize that the issues you are dealing with are larger and more emotionally involved. But there is a truth that can be applied to both our circumstances. Our past mistakes, even when done with the best of intentions, can deeply scar our mates, and propel them down a road we did not intend. We who have the deeper walk with God must do what we can to pull them back, leaning on His strength as we journey where we do not wish to go.<P>Love endures all things. We may not always feel that, but God's word says it is true. My wife and I will pray for God to strengthen you as you reach out to help pull your husband back.<P>BrokenButNotCrushed<P>

BBNC,<P>Well, I apologised to my H and explained that I didn't know by all the love I was showing and giving him was pushing him away and threating his manhood or identity. He said that was right and I did. I never thought that by giving someone too much love would be a bad thing, but in this case it was.<P>I'm not in a very good mood right now because he is not that willing to work on things with me. He said he likes his fantasies and the things the way they are. He also said that he may never love me in the way that I love him and he doesn't intend to get that close to me or anyone, because mainly it would be giving too much of himself away. <P>Okay, I feel like I am standing out in a field alone now. No, I did not LB, but I am right now asking my self(with all the hurt I have) WHY am I here? I feel like such a fool and like I am fighting a battle I will never win. I am soaring toward depression right now.

Dear devastated2,<P>May God comfort you right now! You are hurting because you made yourself vulnerable by apologizing to him, and he didn't respond in kind. But, even though it may not feel like it, you took an important step forward. <P>Up until this point, your H harbored resentment against you for your mistakes of the past. It was an unresolved conflict. You have now resolved this conflict by asking for forgiveness. It will no longer be the barrier to recovery that it once was.<P>Your H's remarks just now were cruel sounding, but at least they were honest. Gone is the pretense of any other reason for his behavior. He openly admits his utter selfishness, and wants you to simply accept it. <P>I am not suggesting that the status quo is acceptable. Unless God gives you special grace, I don't think it could be.<P>Please choose not to react in the hurt of the moment. It may be that you have planted seeds that, given time, will produce a crop which you cannot see just now.<P>Identify with Jesus. The pain your are bearing now is the pain of someone who is suffering for doing right. You will be rewarded for your willingness to humble yourself and ask for forgiveness.<P>Give God a chance to work in your H's heart before taking the next step. These problems have festered for years; it would be next to impossible for them to resolve themselves overnight.<P>Take comfort in knowing that you acted in obedience to God. You did what He wanted, not what your emotions were telling you to do. It is now up to Him to bring about the changes. You have done your part. Now trust Him to do what He wills in your marriage.<P>I am praying for you to find peace in the storm.<P>BrokenButNotCrushed<P>

BBNC,<P>I am not feeling any comfort right now. I have to be honest. Yes, his lack of compassion was most hurtful to me. When I think of all that I have sacrificed for him in this marriage and he cannot even do this for me, just at least until I can get stronger with the destruction that has been done to me as a woman.<P>Tonight, what did I get, Nothing. He didn't spend any time talking with me. I tried but I could see I was interrupting his internet time. He said AFTER he was finished he would talk with me. Always SECOND here. But when he was done he got involved in a T.V. show.<P>I am getting so tired of waiting and needing and wanting. Just to talk for crying out loud. I remembered I needed some things from the grocery store at that moment so I left and stayed gone for over an hour. I needed to get out of this. When I came home, he was on the bed asleep. This man doesn't need me he needs a maid and a woman he can $##$. Yes, I am hurt, I am angry, I am resentful and I am VENTING. I am about to the point if you can't beat em join em kind of thinking.<P>He does what he wants and takes care of himself. WHY I ask myself am I even here. Right now I feel also in despair and hopelessness. I know, lean of God. I have put it in his hands but my H just will not let him in. He listens to the tapes, gets information on the internet about Bible history but none of this gets through to do any good here. He said the one night stand woke him up and promised all kinds of things to me. He was finally going to be and work at being the kind of father and husband he had not been, but that didn't last. Well, the husband part anyway. He has recently begun the process, after me saying for so long, to show my daughter he truly cares for her.<P>At least that is something. But I am in a defunked mood and so many things are at the surface right now for me. I feel he has taken me for granted and expects me to always be there no matter what. Not very interesting. Maybe that is the problem. I'm always there for him. <P>I am about to the point of telling him that it might be best if we did seperate. He isn't here for me anyway and doesn't want to have any kind of conversation with me let alone discuss this marriage. And I am tired of coming home with no one share my day or thoughts with when he sits and show no interest like I was nothing. He is so absorbed in him that he cannot see me anymore and with all the hurt I have had in the past 5 to 6 months I don't think I can take much more. At least if he was gone I wouldn't be reminded that there is a man in front of me who ignores what I have to give and want to share. I'm going to go lick my wounds now and try as best I can to get some sleep. I dread going to bed. I need and want to ge held but he will be on his side of the bed snoring. I could have stayed out all night and his reaction would have been anger because I was gone so long. Not worry or concern, but mad because I did something like that. Not much of a marriage right now if it ever will be.

Dear devastated,<P>Right now you're hurting so much that the pain is eclipsing everything else. Let's leave the marriage out of it for a moment. You need some immediate help for you!<P>Make an appointment to see a doctor who can prescribe an antidepressant. If you're already on one, talk to your doctor about increasing the dosage or finding another one.<P>I don't blame you at all for any of the things that you are feeling. In fact, I think very highly of you for choosing to do the right things, even when you didn't feel like it.<P>Your marriage is in serious trouble, and your H either doesn't see it, or he doesn't believe it. Your H will truly be surprised, deep down, when you take the next step.<P>It would be better if you could wait before taking the next step. You are seeing significant changes in his attitude as a father. It may be that changes as a husband are not far off. But if you feel you can't wait any longer, I understand.<BR> <BR>Consider choices less drastic than separation. Are there any that will communicate to him how sick and tired you are of the way he has been treating you?<P>Separation is a high stakes move. If it doesn't produce the changes you want, the marriage is probably over. I realize that the way you feel right now, you're probably thinking, "Good riddance!" But, especially when children are involved, divorce is just the exchanging of one set of problems for another. As a lawyer, as well as a Christian counselor, I have seen how hard that road can be on everyone.<P>Please remember, though it feels like an eternity, it's only been a few days since we started to counsel. In a conventional setting, we wouldn't even have had our first appointment yet! As much as is possible, you need to give your H time for the things you have done in the past week to sink in. No one in your H's situation changes that fast. Even after my W confessed and we began to work things through, it was about three weeks before she really saw through the lies of her addiction. <P>I want to help you in any way I can. Vent, work through different alternatives, or anything else that will help in this time of upheaval. I would not at all be offended, and would even suggest, that you give Dr. Harley a call before deciding on the next step. It's such a major decision, and emotionally you're in such a bad place to make big decisions right now.<P>I am praying for you to have the wisdom to know what to do.<P>BrokenButNotCrushed<BR> <P>

BBNC,<P>I do appreciate your advice so much. And you are right I am in no place right now to make such a major decision like seperation. I am sure you can understand that at the time of such pain it seems like the best thing to do just to rid the turmoil I feel. Granted this would more than likely add to more in the long run.<P>I just feel I am standing at that huge brick wall with nothing to break it down with but my bare hands. I feel so helpless. No, I am not on any kind of antidepressant except he wine I have been par taking from lately. Does that count? That was a retorical question by the way.<P>My spelling my be a bit off due to the wine. I have started on it early today. Last night I woke up crying in my sleep. I feel depression trying to take hold and I am fighting it, but granted seems like I am not doing a very good job, Hugh.<P>I kept saying my prayers over and over last night until I did fall asleep to find comfort and control in this. It did help somewhat but I am at a point where I don't know exactly how to handle any of this. I never was one for playing games and don't like that but I feel in a way that is what this detachment with love is to an extent. <P>I have alway been a very open and loving person but with the present situation I feel by being so it is a detrement to this marriage and if I back off it may cause him to reach out more to me. See what I mean?<P>Why do I have to subdue my true feelings in order to get the reaction I want from him. I guess what I am saying is why can't I openly and loving show my affection and get it in return? Because, and I am thinking here, he feels threatened by it. <P>Yes, frustrated it makes me when I think of all the years I have shown him that it won't take anything away from him or hurt him, but he still isn't convinced evidently because of what he has sufferred in the past. In other words and I have said this before to him, I am paying for what other did to him. <P>But I have feelings too and I feel I am reaching a point of no return. I love him and want a marriage but not at the cost of my sanity and I feel he would walk out today if I asked him to and never look back. So, someone might say and probably would, why then do you stay or want a man who could leave you so easily. WAKE UP! He doesn't have that stick it out kind of love for you that you do for him. What does it take, a house to fall on you to get you to see that he could move on and not give you a second thought?<P>I suppose you could say I am afraid deep down to find out, but at the same time I am in such turmoil and pain that there are times when I think, GO! LEAVE! I surely can find someone who wants to same things I do in a relationship. <P>If I sound like I am having a nervous breakdown, Well, maybe I am. I have always been a strong person, but LORD! I need help.<BR>And I am not ashamed to say so. God knows I do and now you do too. <P>Antidepressants? Would that really help me you think?

Dear Dana,<P>I so much regret that I could not post earlier today. I tried several times, but could not properly access the MB site.<P>I care about you! Please promise me that you will seek help immediately. You are falling fast into depression, and you need to act now, before you slide any further.<P>There are many things I want to say in response to your last post, but I'll wait until you've told me that you went in to see a professional. Please, please, don't put it off even a day!<P>I'll be awaiting your next post with great concern, so let me know what the doctor says as soon as you can.<P>No matter what you may be feeling now, you are a special person, and God has a special plan for you. A plan for good and not for calamity. Don't ever give in to despair!<P>I'll be praying throughout the day until I hear back from you.<P>Your Brother in Him,<P>BrokenButNotCrushed<P>

BBNC,<P>Hello, if you will notice the time of this post it is very early in the a.m. hours. A bad dream woke me up. . . again.<P>My H and I had a talk this past evening which escalated to any arguement then when we both calmed down we talked some more. <P>I explained to him what I am feeling and that I cannot continue to live like this and he agreed neither could he, but he wants to start over fresh. Like we first met. Forget the past and begin again with each other. He wants to try this for one week to see how things go. He says he will work at making this marriage better. <P>Trouble is, I have heard this so many times before that understandibly I have insecurities about this, however, I guess I am seeking some input from you. Do you think I should go along with this for one week like he wants? <P>I honestly don't think this will fix the situation and he keeps saying, "Maybe I do have an addiction." He is still in denial with this and he thinks by concentrating on me more and this marriage that this will get rid of his wanting to have the porn and thoughts of lust for other women.<P>Been there, done that and it didn't work. But he seems to really want this one week trial right now and for me to give him a chance. Guess one of the other reasons I can't sleep is because I know as long as he refuses to look his demons in the face and confront them nothing will ever change except the love I have now. Seems the more I show he withdraws and the less interest I show then the more he seems to try at this marriage. I feel like I am part of a game I don't want to play. Can you possible understand what I am talking about and see why this can drive someone who is fairly sane into a demented insomniac?<P>Yes, I do need to find a doctor to help me with something so at least my dreams won't attack me at night. Sometimes, even when I pray, those ugly images fly into my head.<P>My H wants me to stay away from the MB board for one week. I told him I get nothing but good advice, support and encouragement here. And that no one is telling me to leave this marriage. That is not what this forum is about. It is all about learning how to keep it. I told him this and would love for him to take the time to come here and read, but when a person doesn't want to face the ugliness in their life you can't force it.<BR>So, should I keep my agreement with him for one week just to show him I am trying? I will find a Doctor to see about some form of antidepressant. <P>I really would appreciate your advice on this on week trial period. Right now, H seems convinced this will work. But, I see this as only a temperary solution to a very long term problem. Keep praying and I will too. <P>I don't want to lose this marriage or the love I have, but as you know I cannot do all of this by myself. He wants to do things his way and I am wondering if I should try this to show him love and support so hopefully he will begin to see that he needs to finally get the necessary help for his problems and let God in his life totally and completely. Not like I haven't shown him love and support before. <P>I will check to see if you reply to this post by tomorrow and then decide about H's wishes for a one week trial. But I am interested in your response and depending I would like to print it out for H to read to give him some food for thought. <p>[This message has been edited by devastated2 (edited March 23, 2000).]

Dear Dana,<P>Boy, were you covered in prayer last night! We had a couple over who are both PhD's in counseling. I shared with them your situation. They confirmed what I told you in my last post, and we then prayed for your situation.<P>I am glad that the blow-up happened last night. Your H is attentive again, or at least he says he wants to be. That's important for your short-term emotional stability.<P>Your conclusion, though, is absolutely correct. You cannot just go back and have things be like they were before. Life experiences change people; to suggest otherwise is naive. Also, your H has an ongoing addiction that he didn't have when you met. That won't go away by hiding from it.<P>You asked: "Seems the more I show he withdraws and the less interest I show then the more he seems to try at this marriage. I feel like I am part of a game I don't want to play. Can you possible understand what I am talking about and see why this can drive someone who is fairly sane into a demented insomniac?"<P>Dana, you are not demented. You are hurting deeply. Hurting is a healthy emotional response to what you have been going through.<P>As to the 'game' you are sick of playing, it is not a game. It is a destructive cycle common to addictions. H engages in XYZ addiction and hurts W. W cries, yells or in some way gets H's attention. H feels remorse and promises to stop. W eases up and is pleasant again. H then goes back to the addictive behavior. Repeat cycle...<P>Is this what you have been experiencing?<P>Ultimately, something will happen to break the cycle. Unfortunately, many times the nonaddicted spouse will utterly use up their emotional and spiritual strength, and the event that breaks the cycle is their inability to try or even care any more. I don't want that to happen to you.<P>You are presently in the stage of the cycle where you have his attention. I believe he does love you; he is just ensnared in something that is too much for him to handle. Use this 'peaceful' time to begin to regain your strength. See a doctor immediately. Be nice to him, but don't expect him to change because he promised he would. He can't.<P>At the right time, you need to take a stand. He must go in for counseling. His emotional issues go well beyond just the adiction to pornography, and it is difficult to imagine him ever becoming a good husband without professional help.<P>I am not saying that this is the time for confrontation. You need to be strong, for yourself and for your daughter, who will need you desperately when this comes to a head.<P>His plan cannot achieve the goals he has suggested, but it can give you a much-needed breather to build up your emotional reserves. I cannot say whether you should agree to his request for your not to visit here during this week. Pray that God would give you guidance.<P>If I don't hear from you for a while, I'll assume you agreed to his request. Whatever you decide, my wife and I will be praying for you.<P>BrokenButNotCrushed<P> <P>

Good thoughts and my prayers to you dear friend. Please let me know how you are doing Dana, whenever you are able, be in today, next week or next month.<P>BBNC has told you what you already know - that L's addiction will not just disappear with your kindness or because of your tears. He also has some tremendous strength and thought provoking words - please head them! Use this time of "reprieve" to gain strength for DANA! You ARE special! You ARE NOT demented. You WILL get through this!<P>Cheers to you my friend.<P>Lisa <BR>

BBNC,<P>Thank you for having a prayer session for me and my H. And yes I have been experiencing exactly what you said. However, I believe H had this addiction problem with porn before I met him. I just wasn't aware of it until after we were married. That is when I found the videos and the nonattentive behavior from him. He did admit to me at an earlier time that when he divorced his second wife he got heavily involved with porn and went out a lot with many women just to use them sexually. He said he was in so much pain that he used this kind of behavior to hide from it. <P>His second wife cheated on him and he fought like everything to get her back but nothing worked. So, when the divorce was final he withdrew bigtime. When I met him he had been divorced for almost 3 years. You would think that this was enough time to get over what hold she had on him, but I guess not. And when we became engaged to marry he would ask relatives and friends, "Who do you think she looks like? Doesn't she look like J(second wife)?" Of course these peoples responses were looks of unbelief that he would even say this and they disagreed with him. Yes, we had many conversations about this and he insisted that he was over her and had a lot of anger and animosity toward her for all the pain she caused in his life. He swore he had no feelings for her whatsoever. Convincing me that I was the one who was special.<P>Anyway, last night I got on this board to retrieve your post before I complied with H's wishes, even though he has nothing to worry about with me communicating here. But, I was willing to try his request to see where it would lead. Being completey aware that this is NOT the solution. I guess you could say I was going to pacify him during this week just to prove to him that serious intervention is needed. Pretending with not make it go away.<P>Last night he saw me on here and gave me a look. I explained to him that I had a message that I had been waiting for and as soon as I retrieved it I would be done and comply with what he requested. He said nothing. Then a bit later I was helping him find a web site for something at work and he suddenly became nervous, anxious and began to break out in a sweat. This happens from time to time. I asked him if he was alright and he said nothing. He then went down stairs to check out Howard Stern. A GREAT role model.NOT!!!<BR>And when I went down to tell him I was having no luck he quickly switched channels. I asked him who Howard had on and H seemed to be uninterested, but he turned back to it. There was a beautiful busty blonde on there nude from the waste up of course. And I probably LB here but I calmly told him to go ahead and watch it or whatever he wanted. He said I don't want to. RIGHT! And I am the Easter Bunny. <P>Anyway, I went back up stairs feeling like I intruded. He then came up and got mad and began ranting and raving then went off to bed. I sat down at the computer and stumbled across some files. He swore on Wednesday his day off from work that he had been good. He had not looked at any porn. Well, I found many sites that were porn and had been accessed on the afternoon of Wednesday, March 22. Of course I didn't believe him when he told me he had not looked at any but I still felt like I had been kicked in the gut because he lies so easily to me. And he wanted sex Wednesday night and this explains his behavior and why he could not climax during our making up. Plus his trying to convince me he was really putting forth an effort to do the right thing. All the while he was doing the opposite of course.<P>I realize he needs more help than I am able to give and I need help of my own here. I am presently not feeling well due to some type of flu or whatever that hit me this morning and I had to take off early from work because it is getting worse. So, I will be spending the weekend in bed trying to recoup my phsyical health and in the meantime I have absolutely no idea what H is going to do or say if he says anything. <P>He left for work this morning without saying a word to me and when I was at work he did not call me like he sometimes does. I know he is feeling quilty and embarrassed but he will cover this up with anger toward me and make me out to be the bad guy. Right now I feel so bad in every way that I don't care.<BR>My throat is sore, my chest feels like an elephant parked his big butt on it and I am so weak and dizzy.<P>However, when H gets home tonight he will use this opportunity to access more porn while I lay sick. He has done this many times before. Instead of seeing if I need anything he will be DOING HIS thing. This only adds to the resentment I already court. But I am talking with God and asking Him for guidance. He is the only one I know I can count on and lean on. It just makes me sooo very sad that I do not have a HUSBAND to be there for me.<P>LisaM,<P>Thank you for your hugs and reply. I will let you know how and what is going on as soon as I feel up to it. It may be sometime this coming week due to my not feeling up to par right now. Guess the flu finally got hold of me despite my fighting it. My emotional state didn't help to keep it at bay any. I usually can fight these kind of things off and hardly ever get sick. <P>But, with what I live in and the stress level my body said enough and thus a virus got hold when I wasn't looking. Take care friend and you will hear from me soon.<BR>

BBNC,<P>I just re-read my post to you to make sure I didn't mispell any words to badly and I want to claify that what H told me about second wife, the porn and other women after their divorce, he revealed this to me about a month ago. I was not aware of any of this until then because he has never shared much of anything about his past with me, despite my trying to get him to do this.<P>I can't help but feel there is much more that he keeps hidden from me due to his fear of what I will think of him or perhaps do. And believe me I have done everything humanly possible to let him know I am not going to chastise him or cause him to feel like a freak. I am not that kind of a person and never have been, but I guess he doesn't believe me or trust me. <p>[This message has been edited by devastated2 (edited March 24, 2000).]

Dear Dana,<P>I'm sorry to hear that you've come down with something. BTW, I was physically sick for much of my recovery period. I cried often, which caused me to have relapse after relapse of my upper respiratory infection.<P>There are many more things I want to share with you, but first things first. You have to regain your physical strength. Pamper yourself. Take it easy and do things that you enjoy, like listening to soft music or taking a long bubble bath. We'll talk more when you are feeling better.<P>Hope you get well soon. <P>BrokenButNotCrushed