After reading DIVORCE BUSTERS and getting to the part #9: AS A LAST RESORT.<BR>It states: <P>" The more desperate the spouse wanting to keep the marriage appears,(ME)<BR>the less appealing he or she becomes.<BR>The reluctant spouse withdraws even further.(my H)<P>Having decided that is what my H is doing I have tried not to call, IM,or send him cards to let him know how much I miss him.<BR>He knows I cry after he's been here,D tells him and she asked him if he even thinks about me, she heard me crying to friend that I bet he never even thinks of me.<P>She told me right in front of him that he thinks of me. That was it. He called here tonight and D asked if he wanted to talk to me and he said no!<P>OK now to my question, and I bet you thought I'd never get to that!!!! <P>I have this beautiful card that I'm dieing to send but now am unsure of,<P>The front says:<P>I've loved you for so long<BR>that I don't know<BR>how to hold back, or let go,<BR>or put all the dreams<BR>we had on hold.<P>I've loved you for so long<BR>that I can't remember<BR>how it was before you,<BR>and I'm not quite sure <BR>how to act without you,<BR>or stop hoping it's you <BR>each time the phone rings...<P>open it and inside:<P>I've loved you for so long<BR>that I can't imagine not <BR>hearing your voice or seeing<BR>your smile (just threw in Mr. Smilie)<BR>or sharing<BR>my days and nights with you.....<P>I've loved you so long that I don't think<BR>I'll ever be able to stop.<P>I would just love to send this card to him, it's so perfect but is it like the book says that I would be pushing it and he would back off more????? <P><B>WHAT TO DO ?</B><P>Help I need input, give me your opinions.<BR>I'm really in a big quandary,(ooo now she pulls out the big words.)LOL It's late what can I say? <P><BR> <P><P>------------------<BR>Peg

Hold onto the gard....Remember the 180 theory.<BR>Save it for later...I imagine he knows all those things.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited March 21, 2000).]

Peggy,<P>I have not posted to you before, but I read your post and I have to agree with Bill, hold on to the card and save it for later. Believe me if your H is anything like mine it will only serve to push him further away.<BR>I, like you gave too much love and it caused him to withdrawl from me big time. <P>Somehow he felt it was taking his identity away. Granted he has other problems but I honestly never thought giving love would cause this kind of reaction. Instead of embrassing the love somehow because of what they are going through it causes the opposite. I know you want him to know what you feel but if he has been withdrawing from you before when you have tried to get through sending him a card such as this will have the same affect I'm afraid.<P>It isn't easy to hold back when you want so much to show your love, I know. But I am currently learning to detach with love and hopefully my H will come around when he sees I am going on to find happiness with me and things that make me happy. Maybe you should think about this and if you want more info on it I could send you what I have or LisaM who posts here sometimes can give you more insight as well.<P>Good luck to you in whatever decision you decide to go with. (((Hugs))) to you.

Dev.2<P>I would like more info. I just find it so hard to not show how I feel, even when I'm hurting and we're not suppose to show that either.<BR>That's why I thought I would do better when he left, but it's been harder because he really only focuses on the kids and hardly talks to me.<P>My IM is Peg928@hotmail.com if you wanted to IM any info. Thanks!<P>Bill;<BR>I know you and Dev.2 are right but it's just is so hard to hold back. <P>------------------<BR>Peg

Peg,<P>Long distance Plan As are hard...<P>Do check out SDS's recent post... she too was a long distance Plan-er.<P>Persistance is what it takes...<BR>In my counseling sessions with Steve Harley... he emphasized that even though I may not think my small efforts (at meeting my W's emotional needs) were leading anywhere... they were like small seeds that take their time to germinate...<P>It's hard... very hard...<P>In the mean time...<BR>...you need to work on you!<BR>Evaluate your strenghts and weaknesses...<BR>Evaluate your needs (and think of your H's)...<BR>Learn how to be a better W...<BR>Develop "marriage skills"...<BR>...I do it by being here on the forum answering questions!!!!<BR>(...and people wonder why I stay here...<BR>...with so little progress in my marriage!)<P>I'm praying for you... <P>and... don't give him the card now...<BR>...save it and anything else you like in a box... and when he comes back... let him look through it! <P>Jim

DON'T SENT THE CARD!!!!!<P>I saw many cards and things like that myself but I can see now the error in that and it is just as the book Divorce Busters says it is.<P>Be strong and remember it ain't over yet.<P>Genie

As the betrayer, I would highly recommend holding on to the card for now. Too much love too fast is too much. My H send me cards all the time and I am so unreceiving of them. They don't bring me joy, just pain. I am already in a general state of confusion and I have already inflicted too much pain to him. I don't feel like I deserve these cards either. I know I would not feel like sending or loving if I were in his position. <P>Anyhow, hold on. You will need it later.

Oh, my gosh. I am in the same situation and it is killing me. Absolutely killing me. I'm to the point of just giving up because I don't think he cares about what I am trying to do to help us. I guess maybe I am the one pushing him away, but it just doesn't seem fair. We are the ones that got hurt by this and now we have to fight for them back. I think it's crap. I am acutally really furious and so frustrated with trying. A friend of mine told me to let him go for a while and don't talk to him or call or anything and if he feels the way he says he is feeling than within 2 weeks she said he will be on the doorstep begging to do whatever it takes to make it work. She said it will be hard, but it will help you in the mean time become stronger too. I don't know. I tried it for two days and messed it up. I know how you feel but I'm so glad I found this website. It has been such a huge impact on me. Take care of yourself.

Peggy,<P>I would definately hold off on sending him the card.It sounds like to me that he needs time to himself.<P>He's probably got so much on his mind that he just can't take everything in,and with you constantly asking for emotional feedback is just to much.<P>I know from my past experiences that whenever someone overwelmed me with attention and constant persuation that really became intimidating.And I dont mean to sound perverted but it was really a turn off.It made me think that they were really desperate and had no confidence.<P>I think if you give him space and let him breath(I know it's hard)He just might come to you.Remember have self assurance and it will shine through.He will see it.<P>Hang in there!

I am in the same situation with my husband. He is spending time away from home to get his head together, and I have continued to push him away. It really is hard to see it that way. Again, I'm the one who has been wronged, yet I have to do whatever I can to win him back. I have gone through so many emotional feelings....hurt and anger are #1. Either I am feeling so lousy for myself, or I am just plain mad at the whole situation. I need to find a middle ground and stay there. Today I am on middle ground, and hoping to stand tall!! Wish me luck anyways. <BR>No, don't send the card. It would probably push him further away. When you think about all of this it just seems as though they are playing games with us. It is not a game, but in a way it really is in their heads, anyways...<BR>

Welcome <B>just_me</B>...<P>Do feel free to post on your own too...<BR>Venting is more than accepted here... almost a way of life... to get through life!<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P>For some clarity... a while ago... the "main" forum was divided into 4 separate "sub" forums...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Just+found+out...&number=29&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Just found out...</A>...for those new the forum... pre/post "discovery" of an affair or possible affair.<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Plan+A/Plan+B&number=30&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Plan A/Plan B</A>...usually after "discovery of the affair"...for those with questions of "what to do now?"<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=In+recovery&number=31&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>In recovery</A>...when a commitment to work on marriage by both spouses has begun.<BR>We are being asked to post the forums that make the most sense with respect to our questions/vents and not just dump everything into the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=General+Questions&number=28&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>General Questions</A> forum because it will give you the most responses! <P>Jim

I certainly know how you feel. It's been over two years now of separation and it's still the same way for me. It seems that he becomes nicer and meeker the meaner I am.<P>It is really very hard I know. But it is much easier for me not to contact him. Even when he calls and I am nice to him. It then seems like he wants to kick me in the teeth.<P>At this point, I don't think I want him back. I just want the satisfaction of knowing he wants to come back. I am so angry with him in that he doesn't seem to care in that he doesn't at least call and ask how I am. But then that just makes him that more defiant.<P>Oh, well, I am getting more and more emotionally detached from him.

Just reading all of the info on this site has helped me to understand my situation, why I'm feeling the way that I am, and why my husband is feeling like he does. It isn't easy at all. Actually, I have never experienced so much pain before. It's an every day thing. It doesn't go away, but we can choose how to cope with it. I'm doing my best to keep my own head together and not fall apart! I never knew I had such strength. Many people here seem to feel the same way. Good luck to all!

What if after so much pain and hurt, after playing this game, that he decides to come back home. How will I feel? Will I resent him too much for what he has put me thru every day? Will I be able to forgive him? What if I do and I go back to my old self? What if I go to hug him and he pulls away from me? How will I handle it? If I cry, will he see me as being weak and want to run? I don't want to play this game. If you love someone, you should be able to express your love the way you feel comfortable. I want to feel free with him to be myself. Sorry, too many questions. Just what is on my mind....

Just Me,<BR>My H moved out the first time in Aug 98, he's moved in and out 7 times now. I plan A'ed until the last time in Jan. I did forgive him, I did trust him many of the times he moved home. It can be done. It is also very difficult and if he continues to break your trust...ouch. Only you and God know how much you can take.<P>My H now wants to come home. I can't bear the thought. The roller coaster continues.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Peggy: Let me tell you what I (the betrayer) did when I was planning to leave my spouse. My spouse did everything he knew how to make me stay. He wrote me letters, sent me prayers, talked to me until he was blue in the face with the pain so clearly inbedded on his face. At that time, I was so sure that I was right in my actions and that his attempts were distancing us further. I became so angry that I hated when he left me any notes. He finally told me that if leaving is what I wanted and if he truly loved me, he had to let me go. Talk about reversed pychology. I decided to take a look at myself and see what was really bothering me. There were many factors involved in the breakdown of our marriage, but I knew deep in my heart that I was still in love with this man. Was I willing to throw that love away. I knew I could have made it on my own. When it comes to survival on very little, I have done it before. I am not ashamed of wearing second hand clothes, working two jobs, eating non brand foods. My spouse and I grew up together. Despite his faults, he has been almost like a physical half of myself. He has been a good father, provider and has never told me that the kids could never have what they needed or in some cases wanted. He would work over-time to cover their expenses. Of course, that meant less time with us, but he did what he thought was right and what a father/husband was suppose to do. Yes we had problems and we should have communicated better to work them out, but we didn't. Now, we are trying to talk more to each other and he is not only my love and best friend, but my carrier who carries me on the days I cannot walk on my own. Yes it is difficult for him to understand what I am going through, but he holds me and loves me. And to think I almost threw that away. Oh geez, I am starting to cry. <BR>Peggy, I will agree with the rest, hold off on the card, because he could withdraw even further. But....if it is in your heart, you do what you feel you can to save your marriage. If he does not respond, give yourself a good cry and then rethink about moving on with your life and health. Peggy has to take care of Peggy. My prayers and love to you.

Peggy,<P>The advice you are getting here is very good. Don't give him the card yet. I am in a situation very similar to yours. I started doing the 180 degree last resort method in Divorce Busting and, while my H is still involved with OW, he is friendlier to me and seems to be "panicking" over the controls I am placing on him. Like, scheduled visitation with the kids, knocking on the door before entering the house, not being allowed to go to the house when I'm not there, etc. He's starting to see what it's going to be like being divorced and he doesn't seem to like it. I am in a modified Plan B. We can't have NO contact because of the kids. He has to be able to have contact with me about their schedules for baseball, softball, piano, etc. because I can't do it all by myself. But I have set some very strict limits, and you know what? I FEEL better now. I have more control over my life. I am handling the pressure of the situation better. Maybe you should try setting some limits too. It might give you that measure of control you need to do the 180 degree thing. And, hey, I might not get him back by doing this, but at least I am saving my own sanity.<P>Best of luck to you.<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Lor,<P>My H has left 4 times so far. On the 2nd and 3rd times..... he lived with her. Oh, how that hurt me. It seems to be longer each time that he is away. This last time, he lived with her for almost two weeks, and this last week he has been on his own. He keeps hurting me more and more each time, and I really don't think that I could take another time. I seem to resent him more and more. I don't know really how to deal with all of this. Of course I want him to come home, but I am so afraid that when he comes to his senses, that I won't be able to take him back! As much as I love him, I'm afraid that the damage has been too much. One day I could forgive on a whim, and the next day I am hurt and angry again. I can't control my emotions, and I'm afraid that I will let him take advantage of me again. No one deserves this type of thing. I really think that this is the worst hurt that you could cause to someone that you are supposed to love more than anything! I'm learning to stand on my own two feet without him. I tell myself that I don't need him anymore. This is really the longest I have ever been alone and on my own all of my life. I am doing it though. <BR>Good luck to you and your husband. 7 times, wow. You have dealt with a lot! Just remember that you have to take care of yourself! God bless......