Hello everyone....(my lord there are a lot of new faces here)<P>Well anyways for those of you who know my story you know that about a month ago I had decided to move on and I stopped plan A. H said that he was pursuing the divorce come April and I decided that if he was going to do this at least we could part as friends. We've been getting along quite well. We don't really talk about 'us' at all and yes we've remained intimate when he comes over on the weekends. In matter of fact he comes over a little more frequent. <P>Well just this week I asked if he has started on the filing process for the divorce. He said no. I asked was he waiting til April. He said no. I asked what was he waiting on (not that I'm rushing him to). He said that it didn't feel like the right time. He admits that he is torn about some things(he wouldn't explain what), but still wants divorce. I told him if he wants the divorce that he needs to file. Granted I love him and in my heart want things to work, but I won't be strung along anymore than I have been(it's been over 18 months). He asked what did I want. I simply stated he knew the answer to that!(DUH)<P>I told him that he really needed to make a decision. He asked me why wouldn't I just let things be and come what may. That he rather prepare and live as if its over and then it not be, than to do otherwise and we end up not being together. That's when he really sounded crazy,lol. But my reasoning behind not just letting thing 'be' as he wants is because I don't know where his head is. At least he did tell me that he's still in love with me. That felt good to know. He said that he believes that our marriage could work, but he does not have the desire to try.<P>Soooo at this time, I still NO expectations. My H has given me mixed signals before and he still states he wants divorce. I really think I am prepared for whatever happens. I know some may say for me to give him and ultimatum, but I think I am gonna just let things be right now, because I really don't know what I want. In a way I just want closure to this whole thing and for him to give me a divorce if he wants one. Then in another way I feel I should take the first step. <P>Right now I've been doing things for me, I think the last thing I posted was that I got me a new hair do and my nails done. Now I'm started to go out with friends in a group setting. I'm in no way trying to date or anything, but just having fun and taking my mind off of things! I'm much more confident and I have more of my esteem back. It's nice to get stares and compliments when I go out, but I sure wish they were from my H!!<P>Anyways your comments will be appreciated!<P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

jamie-lee,<P> I'm not sure how much good I can do for you but the one thing that did strike me was when you stated<P>He asked what did I want. I simply stated he knew the answer to that!(DUH)<P>Lately I'm been struggling and my mind side tracked (anxiety attacks all over the place). I hear the same words about knowing the answer from my wife. It was if she was picking a fight. I was sitting there, head in what knows where, and along came these words. Well we did end up in a little fight which almost pushed me to the point of giving up.<P> If you even think that you may want to still fight for your marriage I would using phases like these. Your H may have his faults but what is the harm in giving him the answer for the 1,000 time. I know it is fustrating but think about where your heads are at. If it is like mine it would make a good dish of gravy.<P> I wish I could offer more, I wish I could give you more support but I'm not sure what to said at this point. I do understand your need to bring this around to something.<P>Joe<P>

<BR>jamie-lee,<P>You know my views on your H's behavior. You've violated some expectation he has about what his wife should be like. I have never been convinced that he really wants a divorce. He wants his disconfirmed expectancy to go away. I know its been 18 months, but I think you should hang in there a little longer. Obviously, you can't wait forever, but good grief, you two love each other and this looks like an accidental divorce in the making (if you ask me).<P>Once April comes, your husband will know that he can "pull the trigger" on the marriage. That's when he'll *really* have to face the divorce question.<P>Bystander

jamie-lee,<P>Huh? Your H left you, intends to divorce you, has been stringing you along for 18 months without deciding but gets conjugal visits?<P>I don't know the details of your situation, but on the surface it sounds like you are just enabling his immaturity. If his participation in your marriage is over, shouldn't the "perks" be over too? Perhaps you think it is wrong to withhold sex since you want to save your marriage. But isn't that strategy becoming counter productive? I mean, if you both are working at recovery, that is one thing, but geez! I'm sorry if this sounds blunt or coarse, but it sounds like he is using you. I'm sorry if this offends you.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

Getting better<P>Thanks for your response. You are probably right, it wouldn't have hurt to tell him what I want for the 1000th time, more like a million times. Just to let you know we weren't arguing. We haven't argued in awhile. It's funny though, sometimes I think we're having a 'who can be the most stubborn' contest. Yes I do want my marriage to work, but I want him to want that too! I don't want anyone who doesn't want me!! <P>Bystander,<BR>I do agree about the "expectation thing." And I do believe H loves me. He hadn't said it in awhile and it felt really good for him to tell me. I like the fact that we are talking more. We are actually being honest with our feelings. Some of the things I don't want to hear, but the truth doesn't always feel good. The one thing that really made me feel good is when he said that he knew that he was taking a huge risk of losing me by his indecision. At least he considers me being out of his life 'a loss', you know what I mean?<P>2sad4words,<BR>No you didn't offend me, but its evident you don't know my story. My H and I seperated, his decision, but mutually agreed upon. I WAS the a betrayer of a one night stand. As far as sex, its something that I want to do, not in hopes to save my marriage, but because I enjoy being with my H. My H is a good man but his indecision on what he wants to do has kept me on a rollercoaster for quite sometime. We both approached reconciliation terribly which caused the seperation in the first place. No I don't think H is using me. I thought this at one point too and I asked him about it, he was willing to refrain from having sex if it was what I wanted, but its not. There is no OW nor is there any OM. We are dealing with my one night stand two years ago and issues we had prior to it. But thanks for your response.<P>Oh you guys, did I tell you that my H has decided to re-enlist. I don't know how this is going to affect us (if there will be an us), especially since I have my own career. God only knows. <P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

jamie-lee,<P> Sometimes we just end up in some limbo type world. I don't know what I went thru recently but I was sure trying to screw things up to the best of my ability.<P> The people here got me back on track. I should have been talking to my wife but for some stupid reason I wasn't. I had crazy ideas that she was drifting away and that she didn't really love me. I was pulling away and coming up with crazy thoughts.<P> Last Night we went out I was going to have faith that she loved me. I was going to be confident. I was going for it all.<P> You know what, It was wonderful. I now know that I was a grade A+++++ *******. I can't tell you why we get in these ruts but I know I do. My wife is there for me. She is ready to help me. She wants to make this work. She is a wonderful woman and I'm damn prove to have her as MY WIFE.<P> It doesn't matter who takes the first step or who is right or who is wrong. The past is the past only the present matters. The goal is to solve the problems and make the wrongs right. Who cares how you get there.<P> Have confidence, fight for you want. Let him know you love him and good luck.<BR>

jamie-lee...<P>I just can tell what <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3600_state.html" TARGET=_blank>State of Marriage</A> you are in?<P>Is it <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3605_state.html" TARGET=_blank>Intimacy</A> or <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3610_state.html" TARGET=_blank>Conflict</A> or <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3615_state.html" TARGET=_blank>Withdrawal</A>?<P>Is there any idea of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3620_state.html" TARGET=_blank>leading the other(H) back to Intimacy</A>?... any reconciliation?... How long can you go on with this?<BR>Any movement toward <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage/Recovery</A>?<P>Is it a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>?<P>I hope this is working for you!<P> <P>Jim

Jamie-Lee,<P>I'm glad you both came to an agreement concerning the sex and that you feel good about your decision. It sounds like you are both still communicating on some level, so there is hope.<P>I know how you feel about the vascillation. My ex did this too. Right up to the divorce, he would tell me he loved me. Even after the divorce, he wanted to move in with me but I told him that I could not live with someone without a commitment. I also could not continue to have sex with him without a commitment, so all "perks" ended for him after the divorce. A few weeks before he filed, he accepted a job with alot of travel, and I felt like he just wanted to save a few bucks on rent, and have something warm and cozy (me) to come home to on weekends. Sorry. That pretty much described my ex. He wanted all the up's in marriage and whatever served him, but didn't want the downs that come with it. <P>My ex still vascillates. He calls me sometimes. Dangles some carrot out there, but I don't care anymore. I'm nice to him, and I like to hear that he is doing ok, but I can't imagine getting back together with him. You'll get to that point eventually if your H can't make up his mind. You don't sound like you are at that point yet, so hang in there!<P>Maybe your H is thinking that you two could get a divorce (thereby making it theoretically ok for him to date) and still keep you around. I told my ex prior to the divorce that my efforts toward our relationship would end if he got a divorce and so would all the perks. It wasn't an ultimatum, just making clear what the consequences would be if he decided to file.<P>I agree with Bystander, but it doesn't seem like your H wants to do anything about it. His feelings don't exempt him from responsibility to do SOMETHING. It is not fair for him to expect that you let a divorce hang over your head indefinately. It sounds extremely passive-aggressive. <P>His words are not matching his actions. His actions most definately say he is not committed. He comes and goes as he pleases, he is re-enlisting (without POJA it appears). The only thing he hasn't done is file for divorce, and that is probably because he is still getting something out of your relationship (I think it is available sex w/o having to do a damn thing, personally). He has no reason to file for divorce. He's got nothing to lose by keeping things the way they are as long as possible. Again---passive-agressive.

<B>Getting Better</B><P>I have taken all the steps. I have been the one doing everything for the past 18 months. I know that the past is the past, and God knows I've left it there. If you only knew everything I've been through, you would understand a little more on why I feel like I've had it. I want my marriage to work, but there is nothing that I can do that I haven't done already. I am trying to just let go and let God! <P>I do let him know that I love him. I show him that in every action that I do. And I tell him, but do I get it in return...no. My love bank is almost empty. It's like just as I'm about empty he does something to keep me hanging on. But I have tried to fulfill his emotional needs and I've tried to be there for him, but when will I get it in return. I need security. That's basically it in a nut shell.<P><B>Jim,</B><P>Sorry to say, my marriage does not fit into any of those categories. I wish they did. Then just maybe these Harley principles would work. I'm in Plan A in a sense that I'm bettering myself. I haven't lovebusted or at least I haven't intentionally, but Jim, I am just so tired.<P>As far as if this is working...well I don't know if you read my post about moving on without him, but that's where I am. I have moved on in a sense that I accept the fact that we are getting a divorce. You know, planning for the worst and hoping for the best in a sense. <P>It may not be the best thing to do, but it's all I can do at this point. <P><B>The Student,</B><P>I was hoping that you would reply to my post . You may say I'm naive but I really don't think my H is one of those shallow men that only cares about sex. He does respect me in that sense. I tested it just to see. ANd when I say no he stops and nothing is different than it would be if we did. However if we get divorced, the 'perks' will stop. Most definitely!! <BR>I truly believe he is torn in his decision, but like you said it is unfair to keep this divorce over my head indefinitely. He needs to do something. But you know what, I could stop that and just file myself. But its not what I want. I guess I'm not at that point yet. <P>As far as him coming over, we have an agreement that he comes over on weekends (FRI-SUN) so he can spend time with our daughter. If he comes over throughout the week, he asks, he doesn't just pop up. ANd most of the time when he comes over besides the weekend, its at my request,LOL. <P>My H's actions and thoughts are very unique for a lack of a better word. He doesn't seem to show a pattern as most. We split everything financially. And though he doesn't live here, he continues to pay for half of rent and utilities. You know he is a good man and but I don't agree with the way he's handled everything, but I do give him the benenfit of the doubt. He spends time with our daughter and we even go out at times. I couldn't believe it, last night he joined me and some friends from the PD. We went out to this bar/club called Red's. He and I danced and had a great time together. <P>You know I really use to let this bother me, but I don't sit around and wallow in self-pity. I'm not crying all the time or anything of the sort. Yes I have my low days but I have a daughter and a career going for me. I have to be strong. That's just the way I was raised. When I broke down last month, that scared me. But I had to get my [censored] together quick. You see, I've said this before but my love/desire for him exceeds my need for him. I can make it by myself. And I know life goes on. God knows I do want it to work, but TS if it doesn't it doesn't. If it does it does. I know it doesn't sound like MB principles, but they don't seem to work for me. <P>------------------<BR>"If you can learn from the mistakes of others, you won't have to make them youself."<P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com<P>[This message has been edited by jamie-lee (edited March 26, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by jamie-lee (edited March 26, 2000).]

Hi Jamie-Lee:<BR> Just wanted to say its good to hear from you! <BR> Personally, I'm not sure limbo is a bad place for you & H to be right now. Of course, it's not a good place to stay in forever, but I don't see any problem with visiting a while! Sounds like you are enjoying being YOU & getting stronger in the meanwhile.<BR> You are still in my prayers, girl!<P>Hugs--<BR>Kathi

Hi, Jamie lee<P>I have seen MB principles work even though I was very sceptical. But at some point it takes two people applying them. You can do it on one side for awhile, but not forever.<P>I'm glad to hear you are sounding so strong. That happened for me too. Actually things are going very well for us, but I honestly never thought I could stop needing him like I used to. But I did.<P>I want him very much, but I also know I could get along fine without him.<P>It also sounds like you are leaving the past in the past. I'm so glad, girl. That's one thing my h is very good at. He had a lot more than you did to feel guilty about (running around behind my back for over a year with two different women), but he left it behind him.<P>As I see it, you and I are a great "catch" for anyone. If your h is too dumb to see it, it's his loss. Keep working on you and take care of that little one.

Jamie lee,<P> I'm a little pressed for time right now but something that may or may not help is the story of how wife finally got me to wake up.<BR>I wish I could find the post where I really spelled it out but here's the summary.<P>Married for 18 years. Wife wasn't happy. Tried to get me to talk, to open up. I didn't, we drifted. She used every trick she could think of and got nowhere. She started an emotion affair strickly because she needed somebody to talk to. She treathen affairs, she treathen divorce. Finally she gave up and the affair became sexual. This wasn't she wanted but she was GIVING UP ON LIFE AND WAS TO TRIED TO GO ON.<P> Well it took the shock of the affair to wake me up. My eyes about 12 feet wide right now.<P> Food for thought. Maybe you need to run him over with a divorce to get him to WAKE UP before you really do mean a divorce.<P>Joe<P>

Jamie-Lee,<BR>Well, I'm probably guilty of projecting my H onto yours. When I told him I didn't feel comfortable having sex with him for awhile before the divorce, he got upset.<P>My H didn't contribute to anything, starting about two weeks after I confessed. So I have to say your H is doing more than mine did.<P>I'm pretty confused by your H's actions too. Maybe he feels like he has to give you his blow-by-blow thoughts on your marriage in order to be honest? Like, "today I thought about a divorce, hon". I'll bet everyone on this website has thought about a divorce very often while going through their crisis, but didn't necessarily verbalize it. If all of his other actions seem to be respectful, maybe he just doesn't want you to feel like he is absolutely making any promises about your marriage just yet. That is ok, but maybe he doesn't need to mention it alot? Could you both agree not to bring up the subject of divorce unless one of you were really planning to file soon? It does seem odd.