Please do not be offended by my questions:<P>Are you angry? Do you feel anger towards betrayers?<P>I ask you this because it seems as I have read your posts you contridict anything a betrayer says. I imagine that being the betrayed is a very different side of the fence than the betrayer. <P>When I post as the betrayer, I find that I feel very much the same as what betrayeds are saying about their S. <P>I cannot, in any way, fake what I feel. And I feel that trying to build love units is not something I can do. I also cannot receive them. I do not want my H love or concern. I want to be left alone. The more cards he sends, the more love he try's to show, the more I want to flee. <P>I guess I felt attacked on the post from you on "Between A rock..." do you really understand where a betrayer comes from?<P>Just curious....<BR>Mercy

Hello Mercy,<P>I am not trying to intrude on your post, but you mentioned that your spouse's plan A is not having a positive effect on your recovery.<P>My husband had an affair and a short time after he confessed it, I started the plan A thing as well. My husband hated it! It had the exact opposite desired effect. The nicer I was, the more it drove him away. I finally realized that the more I did it, the worse our relationship got. So I stopped it. Things improved. Months later my husband told me that my plan A efforts made him feel incredibly guilty and he pulled away from our marriage to avoid those feelings of guilt.<P>We are well into recovery now, but I wanted you to know that plan A is not the only way to go and does not work for everyone. I don't know if the reason it fails is always because of the guilt or if that is your situation. There is no one solution to this whole mess, sometimes it takes a while to find the right way.<P>I wish you and your husband the best in your journey through this difficult time.<P>Best wishes,<P>Peppermint

mercy,<P>I'm sorry if I made you feel attacked...<BR>... I think it was on the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001867.html" TARGET=_blank>I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND - Is she now pulling away?</A> post from <B>caj1</B>...<P>I never want to make anyone feel that what they are feeling or doing is wrong...<BR>...or that I have all the answers....<BR>I most certainly do not...<BR>...If I did... I'd be past recovery... and I am nowhere near there!<P>My replies to <B>caj1</B> where meant to be more along the lines of traditional MB (Harley's) principles... and as <B>peppermint</B> pointed out those principles aren't going to work for everyone. I happen to beleive they will work for most... but there will always be situations where they don't quite fit.<P>Your ideas are perfectly valid...<BR>Many on this forum agree with them for their own situations...<BR>and many agree with the concepts in the <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0849913411" TARGET=_blank><B>Love Must Be Tough :</B> Proven Hope for Families in Crisis</A> book by James C. Dobson... in that the "space" issue is of paramount importance...<BR>I don't argue the point... in fact... it was the first book I ever read on the subject the day after my D-Day!(3 times!) I thought it made a great deal of sense... but for me...<I>just me</I>... it didn't contain everything that the MB principles contained. It lacked <I>for me</I> the sense of forgiveness of myself and of my wayward spouse... and the outward expression of the "unconditional love" me as a perennial <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver</A>...has to give.<P>I don't feel anger towards betrayers at all... <BR>I love them as much as the betrayed... <BR>I feel for their pain as much as the betrayed...<BR>It will always be a longer lasting pain... I think...<BR>Do I hate what they have done... in all honesty... I do...<BR>(my seperating the sin from the sinner is the only way I can functionly accept what has happened for me)<BR>I know you said in your follow-up to peppermint that you have been spiritually abused... (as well as emotionally and physically)... I don't wish to add to that abuse... I hope for your healing... as well as for healing for everyone on the forum(s).<BR>I know I couldn't find any healing until I learned to really forgive... both myself and my W... and even the OM. I found that these 2 sites gave some inspiration to that healing... <A HREF="http://www.divorcebusting.com/forumlinks4.html" TARGET=_blank>Forgiveness is a Gift You Give Yourself</A> and <A HREF="http://forgivenessweb.com" TARGET=_blank>The Forgiveness Web</A>.<P>I can understand how "(you) have a lot to contend with"...<BR>I can understand "...why (you) think plan A cannot work."<BR>I can understand "...(you) cannot open up and love anyone."<BR>I am soooo sorry for the pain you're going through now.<P>Please... please... please don't take my comments as a personal attack on you or your ideas.<P>I hope and pray your church elder can give you some insight...<BR>...in healing yourself...<BR>...acceptance of signs of love and symbols of love is soooo important...<BR>...without it.... you are very right... <I>for you</I> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> just won't work as advertised.<P>I'm a betrayeed... but I'm praying for you my sister...<BR>We're all God's children... and I do care for you... <BR>If my words aren't comming out with sincerety... forgive me... I really wish to express that to you.<P>I'm praying for you right now...<BR>...and when I light my candle tonight...<BR>...you'll be the first one I pray for!<P> <P>I hope I can still be a friend... <P>Jim

Thank you.<BR>Mercy

mercy,<P>I said I would...<BR>... my candle is now lit! <P>Jim

Mercy,<BR>I am the betrayed. I agree with you on the Plan A. It drove my stbx farther away. He said at one time that I was "too" nice....too clingy....too needy. Of course I don't think I came across that way....but he certainly did. <P>It is so hard for the betrayed because we want everything back to "normal", but how do we get it that way? You see, when things were normal.....my H was having an affair. He told me he just wanted me to be myself.....but how could I when he must not of liked me being myself because he found another. It was like a big vicious circle. It is so complex....so confusing, for both the betrayed and the betrayer.<P>I wish you the best, for we all hurt.<BR>Nancy

Mental,<P>You hit the nail on the head! <P>I am sorry for your hurt. I wish you well.<P>Mercy