I was browsing through a book the library just bought called, "What to tell your kids about your divorce." Yet another book that ignores infidelity. There was discussion of what to say in cases of abandonment, abuse and even incarceration, but I didn't see a word about how to handle it when your spouse moves out of the house and into the OW's. Why do they ignore that, when almost all cases of divorce when there are children involve infidelity? How can the parenting courses that you are forced to take when divorcing completely ignore infidelity and its impact on kids??

Nellie1,<BR>I don't know why either. My guess is that infidelity is still seen as some big mysterious, complex thing. We both know, after being here awhile, that it is not that complex at all and that most infidelities are remarkably similar. With something like abuse, incarceration, etc. it is very clear who the "guilty" party is because our laws are very clear about what constitutes abuse and what it takes to end up in jail. Everyone has a different opinion about what "cheating" is, and that is part of the problem. <P>Nellie, you know how disillusioned I am with relationships. I don't want to feed into your feelings, because I think your odds of finding a good person are pretty high. Much higher than mine. You were the faithful one. You were the one who hung in there and is the primary parent to your kids. You have alot to be proud of. <P>I know you are mad at your H, and probably every other betrayer out there who has profited from their infidelity. I am too. I wish I had the words to comfort you and take away your pain.

Nellie,<BR> And they say children are the glue that holds a marriage together.If thats the case,why do I know so many single parents including my sister?I never realized how infidelity has grown to epidemic proportions.Lest you think I'm just saying that to exaggerate our situations,why does it seem to be everywhere in my life,just coincidence?<BR>My sister's neighbors W just left her H and children for another man.At any given time,I know somebody who's spouse is leaving them for the BBG(bigger and better deal).My folks know several couples who went through this(hey,you remember so and so,guess what?).I ran into an old friend of my FIL who knew we broke up because we"grew apart".I told him the real reason.He said,"Holy Cow,that's what my daughter did to her husband!"One of my doctors,two cousins,my sister,her neighbor,my neighbor(no,make that two neighbors),three supervisors,one uncle,one aunt,five close friends,and several co-workers have all divorced due to infidelity.<BR> Makes you really stop and think if you want to ever get married again.I can't afford to lose anymore.My W doesn't want much,just a new life.At least I'm not going to get burned,too.I'm going to file for divorce,Nellie.It's over.Time for permanent(and I mean permanent)plan B.<BR> I'm sorry you're going through all this [censored],Nellie.Nobody should have to,especially the children.Maybe we need to go back to the old days,when you walked away with nothing if you cheated on your spouse.Used to be,in some countries,you could legally kill your spouse and the OP,but thats a little extreme.<BR> You have a nice Sunday.I'm going to go watch the Kingdome come down.Take care.<BR> --Murph

Nellie--<P>Karen Carpenter just came to mind. "Bless the beasts and the children, for in this world they have no voice...they have no choice."<P>Musing...Whether infidelity is defined as merely a symptom of problems in a marriage, or the actual causation, it's present in most breakups todays. I don't think there IS a way to explain to children, born of two parents, why daddy/mommy wants to live with this OP now. Not in ways to which a child can relate. They are simply not equipped to understand.<P>So the custodial spouse is left to deal with the pieces...and those haunting expressions in children's eyes.<P>Be strong. And please, don't give up hope for another man in your life...later...the right way. And don't color your children's world against hope for the rest of THEIR lives. It's up to you; H isn't going to help in that department for sure.

TheStudent,<P>Don't worry about feeding into my feelings. I can't get much more disillusioned. I know, realistically, that the odds of my finding a good person, for a middle-aged woman with six kids, are pretty low. I am sure my H knows that too, so he does not have to worry about another man raising his kids. <P>Murph,<P>I am sorry to hear that you have come to the conclusion that it is time to file, but I certainly understand. <P>Sometimes I wish I knew more people in real life who had gone through this. Except for two friends who moved away many years ago, I don't know a soul whose spouse left them for an OP. My sister divorced her H because of his infidelity, but it was her choice. Virtually everyone I know is (apparently) happily married. My kids have known only a few people whose parents were divorced. <P>Lucks,<P>There certainly is no way to explain it to the kids, especially when I don't understand myself. I really think that no matter what positive things I might say to the kids, they are going to learn far more from their father's example. They are going to learn that people who have promised to love you forever can't be trusted not to desert you, and then heap insult upon injury by hating you. My seven year old told me months ago that my H hates me - although according to him what he said was that he didn't like me. They have already learned that the OW's happiness is more important to him than theirs is, since he has told them they can't visit if they disrupt the atmosphere in her house. If the relationship with the OW lasts, they will learn that happiness can be achieved by deceit and betrayal. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited March 26, 2000).]

I agree that infidelity is greatly under-reported, underestimated, and under-talked about not (not the greatest English, but you know what i mean). In Pittman's books "Private Lies" he offhandedly mentions that in something like 90% of his counseling with people who are divorcing, there is infidelity. Although I certainly see that there are factors in a marriage that can make infidelity more appealing, it strikes me odd that is talked about so infrequently as the cause for marriage break-up's. <P>The ironic thing to me as I read this board is that it is often the BETRAYER who leads the way in the divorce, and it is the betrayed who is willing to move mountains to try to save the marriage. This is one of the stranger phenomena of the whole thing. It is certainly the case in my situation - my W had the affair which led to great "enlightenment" about how empty our marriage really was (interesting that betrayal led to enlightenment....), filed for divorce, and shows no interest in talking about repairing our marriage.<P>What to tell the kids? I have no idea. What an incredible mess. The frequencey of adultery certainly doesn't diminish the harm being done in so many families, does it?

Nellie--<P>Yes, your children are going to learn from their father's example. Of what NOT to do. Guide them that way. They can grow up loving their father but not endorsing his actions. It can be done.