Boy, gone for a couple of weeks and lots of new faces and changes. Took me awhile to read up.<BR> So we went to Hawaii and had an OK time. The good was no fighting, we did lots together and had some good times, Once H even made a joke and we laughed.<BR> The bad was he is in such withdrawl. No intimacy at all. He wouldn't even let me take his hand when we were walking. He dressed out of my sight and even wore underwear to bed. I was reading on the stages of marriage, but I don't think I understand how to go about trying to get to withdrawl to imtancy. I read the article, but I can't grasp how to actually go about it. Any practicale suggestions?<BR> I spent the last night of vacation crying as I am not sure I have the selfconfidence or self esteem to continue to give and get absolutly nothing in return, not even an acknowlegemet that I have spoken at times.<BR>I am a conflict avoider too, so i guess withdrawl seems like an improvement over conflict. But I reallly would like imtimacy. So advice please!<BR>Lora

Hi Lora,<P>I guess things just take time. <P>I'm probably not the best person to make any suggestions since my H's withdrawl doesn't seem to have been that bad, but in my opinion the best way to deal with it is to acknowledge it, keep in mind that it is happening and why, and try to keep things positive. After all withdrawl is a difficult time but will lead to better things. It's all part of the process.<P>Talking wiht your H - about safe topics -, reconect in other ways and keep in mind that intimacy will come back <P>When my H was in withdrawl, we did a lot of things together, we became best friends again. Safe topics for us were things that were on his mind ( and mine ) - not connected with the affair - like his work, his dreams, things he wanted to do, hobbies, places we wanted to visit ... anthing , really, that didn't have anything to do with her, and that was pleasant to us.<P>trough the years we both had changed, so even though we thought we knew all about each other, some things were different. We talked a lot about how we had changed, or how different our goals where. We kind of went back to the curiosity stage - the one where we want to know all about that person.<P>However my H didn't avoid intimacy, unless just in the begining a bit.<BR>I used to massage his back when he came from work, which I knew he wouldn't avoid because he always comes home quite tired. I went back to doing the small things we used to do in the begining of our married, and made it light and fun, like shaving him, or put my "nice special smooth" hand cream on his hands, stuff like this. Soon he was into the game as well, and we were grooming each other . We're still doing it, whenever he;s home he dries my hair, covers me with body lotion, even gives me a hand with nail polish. Most of these things are on-sexual but we're touching and connecting.<P>Mostly we ( or I since I was more aware of what was happening than him ) tried to keep things light and even fun, and slowly he got out of withdrawl.<P>Hugs <BR>Kat

Although I am not sure how much conflict avoidance had to do with my H having an affair, I have learned much and now handle conflict much better. Ironically there is almost zero conflict to confront these days.<P>If your H isn't a natural talker or sharer, however, this may be the time to just hang on day by day.<P>If your H does talk, listen. Listen without interupting. Listen without getting defensive. He will feel listened to, which is hugely important, and you may learn some very valuable clues.<P>You can live without afirmation short term. Try not to bait, beg or fill the silence with endless chatter.<P>Keep a friendly face and even if he doesn't respond, friendly pats or touches.<P>Make your relationship feel safe, so when he is ready to talk or ready to move forward the stage is set.<P>All the best!

Thanks Kat,<BR> I will try some of your suggestions.<BR>Faith hope and love,<BR> I will try to be patient. I have been trying to just go on and be happy and loving, but every once in awhile it really gets to me and I wonder why I am doing this and is there really a light at the end of the tunnel.<BR> I have tried to stop looking for evidence as I know it just upsets me, but yesterday we went to Mother in laws and H said he had to make a phone call to his friends mother. Of course it is not long distance to OW from his mothers. I had to go hit redial and see that he called OW. Afterwards he acted so weird even his mother asked if something was wrong with him. To top it all off his brother is breaking up with his livein girlfrind and his mother says he has another woman though he denies it to her, but he spends nights out so she and girlfriend asssume he is lieing. Great example huh?<BR>Lora

If he is still calling the OW...he may not even be in withdrawl yet.<P>My H continued to call OW about 8 weeks after it was "over". I honestly do not think he wavered on his commitment to me, and I really don't think he saw her again, but for whatever reason, it took that much time to die by phone.<P>Maybe your H is in that kind of limbo. But I don't think you can even count withdrawl as even starting quite yet. Maybe pre-withdrawl, if there is such a thing.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I guess I was thinking more of withdral as the withdrawl stage of the relationship, Withdrawl from me. I read Harleys stuff about the 3 stages of relationship, imtamacy, conflict and withdrawl. And he seems to have definatley moved to withdrawl.<BR>NSR are you out there with some insight on this? I read about it in one of your posted links.<BR>Lora