Well as suspected my W called me today and she caught me at home around 11:30 am. She asked what I was doing home, did I work today? I said yes, that I was just home to let the dogs out. <P>Anyway, today she sounded really tired. She is still lying, but I don't confront her about it. (eg) she said she seen her mom and dad this weekend when she did not. She has been staying with OM since last Wed. I can't care about that though, not now. I asked how she was doing, and she said she has happy and sad moments like always. Whatever that means? I told her I love you and she said I know, I love you too and I said I know and she said I love you again and I said to her again I know sweetheart. I am here for you and words can't express how much I love and miss you and pray that you are okay (Are these good "love busters"?<P>She also asked me if I wanted to go to lunch and I told her that I would love to but I had been out of the office now for almost 2 hrs and had to get back. I asked if we could do lunch tomorrow and she said sure. <P>I also asked if we could go out Sat. night after the move and she said she didn't know that it might be too much for her, whatever that meant? I just said ok, I'll ask you antoher time so I can make some plans.<P>I told her that I hated seeing her going through all she is and I was here for her. She kinda laughed and you're worried about me? <P>Could my W not be cutting it completely off because she sees how much she is hurting me? That is no good is it? <P>I don't know why but she is starting to get into somewhat of a routine of talking or seeing me Mon/Tues then being cold until the next week. Why??<P>I don't think she is going to stay at the new house because I asked her if I should pack up her clothes to take to the new house or not and she said she was not sure what she was doing. She did ask what we were going to do with the house and I said we have to keep it for awhile anyway. <P>I also told her I was in a discussion group (here) and that it helped to talk to others with similar problems.<P>One last thing, when she calls she is very concerned about what I do / did and who it was with. She even asked if I had found somebody else. I told her no, that I did not have any intrest in anyone else. I then asked Do you want me to find somebody else? She replied I don't know.<P>Should I tell her everything I do, she doesn't to me. I don't care, I don't have anything to hide but...<P>In closing, what do you get from our conversation today. It lasted about 20 minutes and I could tell she was tired or something not completely sure.<P>Thanks as always... you all really help me!!! Don't stop responding.<P>

Well, well, well, I don't know exactly how to respond because I have gotton some conversations like thatalso (except for the Ilove you's---I'm the only one saying it, but my H still has that possessed "I don't really know what's happening look").<P>To me it definately shows confusion. I would not, not, not, not pressure her.<P>They all lie, I think they can't help it. It is so offensive. My h would NEVER lie before. IT makes it seem even more evil doesn't it???? He even lied to his family.<P>Anyway, keep detached, try really hard to deflect her guilt. You don't have to tell her everything you do. Just do!!!! <P>Live your life too. Remember we have some control in this situation also. For me it is me and the kids. THat's all I can control. The rest is up to him. <P>Have you read "Love must be tough"? I just got it to read as an adjunct to the MB books. I had to "open the cage door" for my husband and begin changing what I could...ME!!!! At the same time I discovered I truly love my husband. It makes plan A easier to do if you can do it unconditionally. (without being a complete doormat.) Keep it up!!!!!

Remember, patience, time, space and love. All in good time things will fall together like they are supposed to <P>Your wife sounds like she does love you but as we discussed before, with the OM in the picture she isn't able to let you know.<P>Blessings,<BR>Mercy

"Anyway, keep detached, try really hard to deflect her guilt."<P>What do you mean by this? Stay away from her (ie) don't meet her for lunch or go out if she wants? I do want to see her and isn't that better for Plan A? Explain please. <P>PS Thanks for responding so quickly, I await to hear from people. Hopefully one day me (and my W), will be able to help others as of all you have done with me. THANKS!!

I guess what I mean is try hard not to try to hard. Does that make sense? To do this I sometimes have to pretend this is not happening to me.<P>I do this to try to not take things so personally so I don't LB.

Do you think if she wants to go to lunch tomorrow I should? <P>I feel like after about 4-5 days she misses me and wants to see me for some reason? After that she begins to get cold again. <P>Am I LBing by asking her out for dinner or whatever?<P>Thanks for replying, I have been thinking about maybe NOT going to lunch with her for some reason. I don't know??

It is tempting to play games.<P>But this will not get you long term results. I would definitely go to lunch. Why should you let OM meet all her needs now? If you are in Plan A, she asking for lunch is a sign you are doing things right. Either Plan A or Plan B. Plan B is YOU asking HER NOT to contact you until there is no om in the picture.<P>She has told you she is confused. You are still important to her. Go to lunch. Do not expect her to meet your needs. She is so confused she cannot deal with your feelings. She is asking for you to be there for her. Just be there. No discussion on how you feel unless she asks. No discussion on future plans, unless she asks. You can offer that you do not like to see her in pain. Just real simple. Just eat, smile, crack a joke about the waiter. Tell her she looks nice (if true) or you like her new shoes. Don't bring up house unless she does. You can say here is a little kiss from dog #1 and heres one for dog #2. No big break thru, just lunch with a good friend who is hurting and you can only be there for.<P>My thoughts. Others may know more. Take care.<P>Victoria

It sounds to me your w maybe depressed. My x was always yawning and fighting to stay awake that it was starting to bother me. How can someone be that tired all the time? Even in the morning right after she had gotten up.<P>I would say you should aske her out. When Om dumped my then w and she was devastated and went to stay with a friend of her family, she said I was the only one that called her and she thought it was nice that I was the only one that cared. <P>You may want to send her flowers or what ever she is fond of. Just try to court her again like you did when you first met. Just be carefull not to over do it.<P>As for telling her what you are doing, I would tell her, just don't tell her you are having a great time, etc.<P>Hang in there and God Bless!<P>Bob

caj1,<P> I just quickly read thru this but the first thing that came to mind is that you are missing the basics of what an affair usually is. I know your an engineer so here goes.<P>If it takes 10 things to make a marriage good she is only getting lets 6 from you. this is not good enought to be a happy camper. Her live was empty. she wanted more. The OM is filling in the void that you have created, Usually he is notwheres near as good as you are in meeting all her needs but at this point in time it is taking both you and the other man to be a complete picture. The reason she went to him is that at this time he is the knight in shinking armor. Usually the one in an affair is being torn in two. She has guilty, she fells like a failer. She is most likely in just as much pain as you are, the big difference here is that I believe she will get periods of happiness from that SOB. I know it doesn't make matters easier to take, I know exactly the rage all of this brings up, I've been there. What is important is for you to understand the basics and see what fits into you relationship. <P> If this was a computer program both you and the OM had bugs in you programs. It is take her using both programs just to do one thing. This will wear on her BUT LET IT WEAR AWAY. This bounce back and forth sounds like she is having trouble in her paradise, LET HER SUFFER. You are doing a job by being there. You seem to doing exactly what you should. I don't think I would ask for a second date when you do have one already lined up. Accept having just a lunch planned. Hopefully at that lunch the two of you will have some fun and it so try and plan another outting. <P> As far as the lunch goes DON'T ATTACH HER OR THE OM. Be understanding of her pain. Be there to support her. DON'T LET YOUR PAIN COME IN AND MAKE MATTERS WORST. If the two of you can go out, drop your problems and just have a relaxing good time and enjoy each others company you be off to a good start. DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING MAJOR, FORGET ABOUT SEX, JUST ENJOY A NICE LUNCH AND HER COMPANY. She is noticing what you are doing, you are making an impact, Her words were<P>I told her that I hated seeing her going through all she is and I was here for her. She kinda laughed and you're worried about me? <P>Your comment was hear and she did notice it NOW YOU HAVE TO PROVE THIS TO HER OVER AND OVER AND OVER. SHOW HER THAT IT IS HER THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT. Be her shoulder to cry on, be there to confront her. Put the screws to that SOB that took you wife by turning the tables back around. You know her better then anyone else does. You know of to confront her, You know how she thinks.<P>As far as getting any form of truth forget it. The rule for those in a affair is to keep it secret, to minimize it. Anything you hear will maybe be only 50% true. She will lie to make herself seem better. Believe me she knows she is living a lie and she is seeing what she has become. This is some of the trouble you are seeing in her.<P>This next part is going to be hard to read and I am still trying to get it into my head but here goes.<P>You know as well as I do what is doing on. She is sleeping with him, they are making love and I'm sure she liked it. Accept this, If you can accept this and learn to live with it your win. If you can live without pushing her and question her you get more love units.<P>Do the details really matter - NO!!!!!!!<P>You know what you want, you want your wife back. It sounds like it is within reach. The above is hard to deal with. I'm sorry to beat you up with it, but it is better to deal with it away from her around. DON'T FORGET WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE ANTI-DREPESSENTS YOUR GOAL IS TO GET YOUR WIFE BACK. THE ANTI-DEPRESSENTS WILL HELP YOU TO BETTER HELP HER. BY HELPING HER YOU WILL BE HELPING TO RESTORE YOU MARRIAGE. IT TAKES WEEKS FOR ANTI-DEPRESSENT TO KICK IN. If my statement above was really hard to get thru I would strong think about these. You need to be at your best.<P> We are all here to help you. Sometimes the help is really hard to hear but I see a lot of me in your current actions. This passion you have to save your marriage is great, KEEP IT. <P>God Bless, I'm be praying for you<BR>Joe<P>PS. I am so sorry about the above I've been thinking about if I should put it in or not. I decided that I would have liked to have been giving anything to help me reguardless of the pain I suffer if it would help. This is the reason I put it in there. You can get thru this I promise you. I wasn't sure before which way things would go but I think it will work out OK. The relationship you will be building will be well worth this pain.<P>

Thanks, VIT. It is 3am and I woke up again as always and checked to see if W was with OM and she was. I was strongly thinking to not having lunch but you have made me see ohterwise. She is confused! Thank you for easing some of my pain this AM before I try and go back to sleep.

Thanks, VIT. It is 3am and I woke up again as always and checked to see if W was with OM and she was. I was strongly thinking to not having lunch but you have made me see ohterwise. She is confused! Thank you for easing some of my pain this AM before I try and go back to sleep.

GettingBetter...thanks,<P>you say:<BR>She has guilty, she fells like a failer<P>How can this be true when she is staying all night w/ the OM every night?<P>you say:<BR>This bounce back and forth sounds like she is having trouble in her paradise,..<P>Do you think, even though she is again there every night since last Wed.? Or is she just concerned about me and doesn't like to see me hurt so bad. That is where the I love you's come from I feel. She has a deeper love for me than for the OM. She even said her love is different than before. I don't really get it? <P>As for the lunch, you really helped me out, thanks.<P>you say:<BR>Be her shoulder to cry on, be there to confront her<P>Again, I feel she has pitty for me and hates seeing me hurting so bad. She just is concernd. I feel like she is just trying to let me accept it so she can go on. She asked if I have found someone. I said no, I have no intrest in anybody else. Why do you ask, do you want me to find somebody else. And she replied I don't know? See what I mean about how I think she feels and her love for me. I feel like she pittys me almost.<P>you say:<BR>she knows she is living a lie and she is seeing what she has become.<P>Why is she still there then, all this is so confusing?<P>I am aware of the OM having sex w/ my W and it takes my breathe away when I think about it, but it is the truth and the truth hurts sometimes. I have to accept it, that is not what is important anyway. "Do the details really matter - NO!!!!!!!" You did not offend me in any way. I need to hear honesty and reality. Thanks.<P>you say:<BR>Sometimes the help is really hard to hear but I see a lot of me in your current actions.<P>It is hard to hear sometimes, I just keep reading over and over my posts and others to try and better understand and cope while trying to do the right thing (LBS) I am glad you can relate to my situation because you have given me a lot of info that is invaluable. Please keep responding, you help. <P>As far as medication, I will strongly consider it<P>Thanks in advance.<P><BR>

Isn't wonderful to get support from this Marriage Builders web site! We should all thank the Harley's for their gracious gift. I am glad you found MB, and are here.<P>You know, it is tempting to try to find out what, where, how, when, who your wife is with. This is very natural. However, right now your family is under siege. You must begin to think this way. It is your responsibility to come to the forefront (firing line) and defend your family. Just like a solider fighting, you have to put aside your individual feelings at this time. The good fight is yours to fight. In order to fight, you cannot be thinking, "gee... that hurt. Where did that amno come from?" Any energy you put into worrying about details will only distract you and deplete you. This is what the enemy wants. Do not give in. It is easy to say, Extremely hard to do.<P>But like any good fight, you will focus, focus, forget your individual needs. Then at moments, you will come here for support and encouragement. And once you win the fight, your hurt, wounds, thoughts, pain can be examined and addressed. And what a hero you will be. Many will say "I could not have done what you did. How ever did you do it?"<P>I hope you lunch is pleasant, and the food delious (sp?). Your company will be with you, reguardless of what is said, or not said. And you both need a break from the firing line, and to refuel your bodies. Good that you can take a break together. Then, on you each go. This is ok.<P>Take care, Victoria<P>P.S. Your w is confused. Sorry to say this, but she does not have the energy to pity you.<BR> The things she does is based around her wirlwind of emotions. You do not have to<BR> worry that she is only concerned she is hurting you, and that is why she is seeing you.<BR> She is looking to you for leadership. She cannot give, and will run if you ask anything<BR> of her. She NEEDS YOU. She needs a safe place to take refuge from the war. Be<BR> there for her. Give her a safe place to come, and just take a break.

Reread what GB and V in T say. <P>Try not to dissect it all too much or read into it. Believe me, that is the hardest thing. I think that's what I mean by detaching.<P>I have a hard time not marking time also.<P>I have to force the thoughts of "them" out of my mind.<P>He is with her ALL day at work. They may or may not have lunch together. They do some things at night. THey talk all the time. I don't even know if it is a PA yet. though I do know it is a very co-dependent EA!!!!<P>We have 2 small kids. My H only comes over to see them. He resists my attempts to have dinner or anything else. He also says he has NO memory of anything we have done.<P>ANd believe me, we had a lot of fun!!!!!<P>Right before this happened we made a lot of plans etc. <P>Unfortunately, my H seems to be having a MLC also. The change in him is so intense!!! and sudden. HE is 100% different. He is confused about almost every aspect of his life. <P>He doesn't say too much to me regarding his or my future and I don't ask. I am currently not getting any needs met. I just try to be there for him right now. I have always loved him. I am also learning alot about myself (or relearning the things about myself that I have put on the back burnerwhile having kids ). <P>I am trying not to focus on what happened but on how to make things better WHEN they get back on track!!!!!!<BR>

caj1,<P> I am really glad that my last comments where not to much. It has been bugging me since I read wrote it. I just wanted to help you can over as fast as possible the ugliness of it all. I THOUGHT IT WAS ABSOLUTEY GREAT THE WAY YOU ARE VIEWING AND HANDLIN IT. I also know this may be how your rational side of your brain is working but I also know the emotional side is being eating alive. It is not easy to accept, it is not easy to stomach. KEEP YOUR CURRENT OUTLOOK ON DEALING WITH THIS YOU ARE DOING GREAT <P> I also want to welcome you to the world of new math. <P>2+2 = 3<BR>1+1 = 3<BR>3+4 = who the hell cares<P>Nothing is doing to make sense. Nothing is going to be what it seems. This craziness will drive you up a wall. As you read the posts from others look for how different each person in an affair thinks they are. Then look at how normal there feelings actually are. I feel my case is different because my wife was preyed upon and the OM took advantage of our troubles. I feel the since it was a quick affair it is different, BUT I CAN ALSO SEE HOW WE FIT INTO THE MODEL SO PREFECTLY. <P> If you look at the advice of others what you are seeing is that we are telling you to accept is anything that appears to be positive as something positive. It may not be exactly what it appears. You wife may not have trouble in paradise, it may only be a quilty feeling of what she is doing to her parents. This may not directly have a bearing on you BUT IT IS A SIGN THAT SHE IS HAVE SOME TROUBLE IN HER CURRENT LIFE. ANY SIGN OF TROUBLE IN HER CURRENT LIFE IS GOOD FOR YOU. <P> My wife gets absolutely sick at the thought of this OM. Most of the womand who have affairs end up feeling this way. They can not believe that they were ever that stupid. The number of cases that go thru this are amazing, there must be something that is common here. My wife would go thru withdrawals it she was away from him for awhile. She would take unbelievable risks at getting caught again and she would be caught. This affair is like a herion addiction. I am starting to feel more and more that she will in time come back. This will be an important first step but be ready because she will go into withdrawal and then try and see him.<P> Ask yourself this -- Do you really think the OM is happy to see her go to you. His feelings will be the same as yours, yet she does call you she is planning on going to lunch with you. Forget for a monent your not married, is she not cheating on the OM by going to see you. She does care for you and her feelings for you are based on her love for you (2+2 = 3). As an engineer you have had to develop the ability to analyze things. Put yourself in the OM shoes and look at what is going on. Now put yourself in your wifes shoes and look at what is going on. This will help you see and understand better. Your vision will not be 20/20 but it may help.<P> I also wonder that it may seem that you are able to rationally view this mess and that your rational side is working, it also appears that you may be obsessing on some of the things going on. True, your here for advice and fire away. It could be this that I am seeing. You know what is going on in your head. If you find yourself hung up on a vision, on a thought, or any aspect of this mess Paxil is a good drug for that. I got a new job and have a front row seat of a place where she said they were on one of my worst nights. I started finding it hard to focus, I got the visions back. The doctor did add paxil as the second anti-depressant and I took it for about two months. It made the difference, I was able to focus on my relationship again.<P> You know what is going on in your head. If your head is doing OK and the emotions are not control you GREAT, If they do start to control you see a doctor your marriage is worth taking a few stupid pills.<P> Good luck at lunch AND HAVE A FUN!!!!! TIME, ENJOY HER COMPANY AND ACCEPT THAT. Let us know how things work out.<P>Good Luck <BR>Joe<BR>

caj1,<P> I have a post out there asking the ladies for suggestions on excitement. Go and read it you'll find a lot of good ideas on romantic and excitement.<P>Here's the web page<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001912.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/001912.html</A> <P>Joe