[censored],<BR>I have to say I kind agree with Jill, K, and 2s4w. But I do like your reply that you are open to counseling. It did seem like you are rushing into things, but I forgot that you have been separated for 4 yrs.<P>Please be careful in saying that you are strong, don't tempt the devil.<P>My only caveat is, what kind of role model are you showing your sons. You are saying it is okay to sleep(in the stricktest terms) with someone. Will they be as strong as you to resist this temptation ?<P>I am struggling with this issue of sex myself. I don't think I could be as strong as you and resist the temptation. That is one reason why I have decided to have a vastecomy. If I do succumb, I don't want there to be a price to pay.<P><BR>May God continue to bless you with his strength.<P><BR>Jill,<BR>I fully understand what you are going through as this was a problem for then w and I.<P>Prior to our marriage we didn't seem to ahve any problems with sex,primarily because we were 200 mile apart and only saw each other on weekends so we just partied and enjoyed each other and didn't truly get to know one another I'm now thinking.<P>After we were married for a few years, my w started having pain during intercourse. We even went to sex counseling together to work on her problem as well as mine( I'm quick on the trigger ) The therapists told us we both didn't like sex much and were probably made for each other. They gave us some exercises to do and that was it. My w's condition got somewhat better, but she had to e totally relaxed prior to intercourse. That eventually led to alcohol, which also played a major part of our premarriage social life.<P>Over the years it gradually developed in to the only time we had sex was when she had a glass or two of wine. I became like Pavlov's dog, I figured she didn't want sex since she didn't have a glass of wine.<P>She always blamed me for lack of conversation which again didn't put her in the mood, but I'm starting to realize that was a two way street.<P>She also started having trouble with her periods and they would come anywhere from 3 weeks on and she also had PMS. I used to joke that she had PMS for a week, her period for a week and then PMS (post men.syndrome) for a week and then I usually did something that she was pi$$ed off at me for a week so our window for sex was very small. For 1999 we were probably averaging sex, once every 6 weeks. Prior to 99 we averaged 1/mo. So you can see we never did burn up the bedsheets <BR>.<BR>I used her moodiness as a turnoff, and never initiated sex or tried to get her out of that angry mood(she used to wake up in a bad mood!). I just was never any good in putting her in the mood.<P>The sex itself was okay, but we never worked on my problem so it was usually over pretty quick for me. I always was able to please her, or at least she used to say that. She said it never mattered to her. I used to feel kind of used, like she was just using me to rid herself of sexual tension and I never got that loving feeling in return.<P>During our counseling, my w said that after a few drinks she could have sex with anybody. She later tried to reframe it but that hurt me very badly. We also completed the EN questionaire and on it she said she wanted sex 3/week. We had never had it that often. Best was probably 1/wk after we were married.<P>During one of our many fights after we were separated, she said that I was bad in bed and she would tell my girlfriend when I get one.<BR>SHe ahd never given me any complaints before! Other tahn I never tried to put her in the mood by simpply talking with her.<P>Needless to say, none of this has left me very confident if I do get into this situation. I'm pretty sure what will happen since I haven't been with a woman since Sept.<BR>of last year.<P>Well I guess I spilled my guts here!!!<BR>I'll be interested in hearing any replies back on this.<P>Bob

To: Jill, Teddy Bear, Doug, Professorg, Doug<P>Thank you all for your input. What I hear you saying is for me to be careful.<P>I am weak in myself, but strong in Jesus! I agree it is wrong to open a door to Satan, but I know myself and what I have determined.<BR>Sure, I am human and have feelings....and there have been times it would have been so easy to just go all the way.<P>However, I have made, in fact we (B...)and I have made committments that there will be no intercourse until our wedding night.<P>A couple of you have warned me about having a rebound relationship. Please understand this...I was separated from my wife with no physical contact and very little communication for almost 4 years in which I did not date at all.<P>So, again...even though my divorce has only been final for 2 weeks....in actuality, my wife divorced me in her heart over 4 years ago and I have basically lived as a single man going into my 5th year.<P>I can assure you (I hate to defend of prove myself); but this is not a rebound relationship.<P>If we get engaged...we are going to take our time before we get married. We have had a very intense relationship since last November even though we first met last July.<P>I can hold her in my arms at night and pray over her. I honestly have peace about what we are doing and there has been much healing accomplished in both of us during this time.<P>What we are doing is very sacred, pure, intimate and private. I only chose to share it with my friends at MB because I know many of them are Christians.<P>Again....I am not being proud or haughty and tempting the devil by saying I am strong. But, I know, we both know..should we succumb to our flesh and have sex before marriage; it would totally destroy our relationship.<P>So, why should I throw away a woman who is so matched to me (spiritually, emotionally, physically); throw away a lasting relationship for a few minutes of pleasure in the sack?<P>B....has even told me how much she respected me for being strong for us both. She is weak in this area but this is an area I have been able to be strong in.<P>Someone mentioned what the witness it would have with my boys? First of all, I only have 1 son (he is married) and I have 3 daughters.<P>I do not feel the need to share this with them and like someone shared on a MB forum recently..."if you know you aren't doing anything wrong...why worry about what other people say or think?"<P>I like the scripture in I John 5 (I think) that says "if our hearts condemn us not; we have peace with God...."<P>I am teachable, I am open to counsel and again; I appreciate your concern for me to be cautious.<P>I am 57 and look much younger and B....is 51 and looks 10 years younger. Neither one of us has ever experienced the depth of passion and oneness that we have together.<P>It was the 'spiritual' that connected us. The spiritual (or agape) produce the emotional and physical attraction. We are both mature and dedicated Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ with all of our hearts.<P>She is an ordained minister as I am and we look forward to a ministry together. I believe the Lord brought B...into my life and me into her life.<P>After all those years and now a failed marriage, I am finally beginning to discover what it means for a man to love a woman as Christ loved the church.<P>In the past, I was selfish, demanding, controlling and perverted. I only wanted what I wanted. Now, I have told B... that "her pleasure is my pleasure".<P>I believe the secret of a happy marriage is when both husband/wife serve one another and esteem the other as greater.<P>In closing, we have made Col 1:18 our foundation verse: "that in ALL things, He, the Christ might have the pre-eminence and occupy first place".<P>Again, I thank each of you:Jill, Teddy Bear, Doug, RWD (Bob) and Professorg (Rob).<P>I pray manifested/tangible break-throughs in each of your situations.<P>Remember....."God sees not as man sees; for man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart".<P>[censored] from Texas

I hope you will join us on the divorcee/divorcing forum. You are a truly godly man who might be able to help some people there.<P>I would personally really appreciate advice/input from somebody who is an ordained minister. <P>TB

You have brought up a lot of interesting issues.<P>First, I too waited until after we married (and he was the first) while my h had a long history. I have often wished I hadn't since our sex was not real good and I had no way to compare to even begin to figure if it was him or me or what.<P>The oddest thing is that it got better and better as his affair went on. Maybe that should have clued me in, but it didn't.<P>Second, I feel that morally I am not bound to fix my marriage after what he did. That I too could meet someone else and find the love I seek.<P>But I could also find it here, and my h has repented and is making so many changes. I think he is becoming someone really wonderful like you were saying you had, [censored]. So if I gave up on him, someone else would get a really good man. Add to this that we have two small children who need their dad, not some other man.<P>We go along nicely until he does something that immediately raises the trust issue. I totally lose perspective of all the good he's been doing. Like the other night we were in New York together. He went to a work cocktail he had to go to while I went to a Broadway show. The cocktail was till 10 and I came back at 10:45 and he wasn't there.<P>By the time he showed at 11:15, I was lbing. I could not stop the thoughts that he may have gone to the room of one of the many pretty girls in the conference (there were 700 attendees). As it turned out he was still making sales contacts at the function, and had not explicitly told me what time he would be back.<P>Any advice from you guys, K, [censored], Jill or any others?

Teddy Bear and Schizzo<P>Teddy Bear<P>To be honest with you, I never dreamed I would be a 'divorce statistic'. I almost vowed that I would NEVER divorce my wife and even if she divorced me...I would wear my wedding ring and stay single the rest of my life.<P>Well, I am divorced now after nearly 34 years of marriage. I filed an uncontested, no-fault divorce and that was it. Remember, God hates divorce, but He doesn't hate 'those' that divorce.<P>Anyway..thank you for the kind words Teddy Bear and I pray God will send you that 'someone special' if you so desire...only Jesus must be FIRST PLACE in your relationship.<P>I will check out the new Divorce Forum<P>Schizzo<P>Guess this is my first contact with you. Have seen your name/posts many times here and have read a few of them.<P>Wow! The trust issue is a tough one. Once trust has been destroyed, it is very difficult to rebuild/regain.<P>I love your attitude towards your husband in that you obviously gave him the 2d chance to become the man/husband/father he should have been.<P>Also, that now that he has repented and is making changes...you do not want someone else to benefit...I agree!<P>I am just sorry my wife won't get to benefit from the changes in me and how I wanted to bless her and make up to her for all the pain I caused. This is why I feel God has brought me B......<P>I know this is tough, but the Love Chapter in the Bible, I Corinthians 13 teaches that "love believes the best of every person". Do your best to think the best of your husband (like in the 10pm cocktail scenario and you didn't know where he was).<P>I can not judge you for this, because I too, have an active imagination and unfortunately human nature always seems to think in the negative....rather than the positive.<P>No, it is not your responsibility to 'fix' your marriage....only the Holy Spirit can change a person's heart..because only He can get inside somebody.<P>Thanks for the response!<P>[censored] from Texas<P>

[censored], <BR>I appoligize, I thought you had younger sons. I guess I should have read your profile or at least of sone the math!!<P>God Bless,<P>Bob

[censored], once I'm upset, it's too late. There must be some self talk or something I can do to at least believe in him as long as he is being faithful.<P>I know I cannot go through this again, if he cheats again, I'm asking him to leave.<P>We too are Christians and have tried to help a lot of people over the years. This was such a shock because he worked hard to control impure thoughts and set up his life to avoid any compromising situations. I never dreamed he would wake up one day and go looking for an affair. (His own words.)

To RWD and Schizzo<P>RWD<P>No problem about the mix up of younger sons; how are you doing? In keeping up with your situation, I understand you are now divorced.<P>Are you believing for possible restoration with your former wife (I hate the term ex).<P>Always glad to hear from you or read your posts.<P>[censored] from Texas<P>Schizzo<P>Glad to hear you are both Christians. By the way, Christians aren't perfect; just 'forgiven'.<P>Christians are liable to the assaults of the enemy as well.<P>I pray you and your husband can re-establish on a sure foundation of trust/respect and if he has truly repented.....there will be a consistency in his behavior towards you and the marriage.<P>You sound pretty 'raw' and sensitive and I can relate to that. I pray in Jesus Name' He will bring healing/closure to whatever needs to be healed in your relationship.<P>Bless you!<P>[censored] from Texas

Hey Jill!<P>How are you doing? Looks like this thread has taken a different twist but I am still interested in your situation.<P>Please stay in touch!<P>[censored] from Texas

[censored],<BR>Thanks for asking. I am struggling a little. I am trying to find/create a life instead of allowing God's plan for me to unfold. I am impatient and as a consequence I screw up.<P>As for reconciliation, I don't think that would be possible. We both have said to many mean things to ever forgive one another.<P>I guess if my former w ever did return to the person she was I may consider it, but somehow I don't see that happening in the very near future.<P>The minister/friend that I have been counseling with, also thinks that she will eventually move away. He said she is trying to live by her heart, doing what ever feels good. I guess I also question if we truly loved one another like I see some of the people posting here do/did.<P>We had a long distance romance, that became physical and as my minister friend say, once a relationship becomes physical, the conversation goes out the door. That is pretty much what happened with us. We would get together on weekends and party and go to bed. There were never any real indepth conversations where we got to now each other. I think or atleast I thought I knew Carol well, however I never saw the infidelity coming. It does hurt when she says things about me which indicate she doesn't know how I tick after 16 yrs of marriage. That doesn't say much about what we had. I am looking for something better now.<P>God Bless,<P>Bob

Hi, [censored]!<P>I know you're still here and interested in my situation.<P>LOL <P>This thread kind of took on a life of it's own, didn't it? <P>Have a good day...<P>Jill