Big problem:<BR>How can one be sure that genuine truthfulness is now being gotten from a betrayer in recovery??????<P>We're councilling, discussing and following MB advise but still there are many points that indicate lies about crutial problems persist. Archives have been searched without finding this specific question having been addressed. <P>Help!!!!! <p>[This message has been edited by LooksGood (edited April 01, 2000).]

I to have that same ??? but for the mean time I have changed the word trust to BLIND FAITH. For my situation without one of these thing it would be a majer love buster. Plus up til now I have always trusted her so blind faith makes it a little easier on me.

At this point there is not way to know if the betrayer is telling the truth, unless you have a PI. But not everyone wants to go that route. I guess the only thing you can do now is just go by what she says until you find out otherwise. They say what doesn't come out in the wash will come out in the rinse. Eventually you will know. But sometimes it is best not to know everything. I wanted to know everything and when I found out special delivery of the OW of course, I was devasted with details and facts, that still haunt me 2 years later. Yes it get's better with time, but i do believe that my need to know hurt me even more and made it harder for me to deal with in the long run.

I wish I knew. Anyone who can answer this question, let me know. I am just taking one day at a time. Take things as they come. I have discovered I don't like looking too far into the future right now. That's the best I can do.<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Thanks for the imput. Having read "never be Lied To Again" as recommended elsewhere on the forum too many inconsistancies and many very reliable factors make many "truths" unbelievable. Forgiveness of spouse is major item for her to move forward but perfect truth is needed for me to progress. A catch 22. If anyone else has ideas, would appreciate input, otherwise just wing it with MB help.<P>Good luck to all.

How do you determine that anyone is telling you the truth? Does the author of a book profess to all knowledge about truth telling or is he just selling you a concept?<P>From experience, you don't want the truth, you can't handle the truth. Oh wait, thought I was in court again defending my national security policies. <P>Seriously, you want perfect truth, ain't no such thing in an affair and you don't want it regardless how much you think you do. And just reading your profile, been here since Nov 30th, maybe lurking before that, but discovery is new, recovery?(if that is happening) is new, and $100 U.S. says that she isn't ready to tell you the entire truth and she may not trust you to deal w/ it right now.<P>Forgiveness is not conditional on whether she tells you every sordid detail or not. Forgiveness just is.<P>Besides what are you going to do w/ the "perfect" truth? Hold it against her? Belittle her with it? Determine if you really can deal w/ everything that went on. I honestly believe that if you assume the worst in every case and you think you can still do it, then that should be good enough. If not, you are probably better off getting out.<P>Down the road you may be able to get the details you want and still be okay with it, but I would guess she is hesitant, especially if she wants to reconcile because the whole truth can hurt during this time period.<P>Just some random thoughts about truth and the need for it in an affair/recovery. Take what you can use, dismiss the rest. <BR>

Truth:<BR>Hum...Sometimes it is so hard to believe. I want to I need to, but then something happens (like today) that once again I know H is not telling me the truth. Trying to paint a picture that is not accurate. I can't understand why? I guess from now on for me( words must = actions) or (actions= words.) Either alone is not the "whole truth"<BR>My H would tell me you don't believe me. I tried and did, after he left the "real truth" was revealed.<BR>Right now I want to LB because he has hurt me once again.I want to make him hurt too. Except I won't. What good would it do.<BR>I guess now that we are divorcing it shouldn't make any difference what he says to me. His words and actions do not go hand in hand.

Some valid points SparkyDog, some may not be quite on. Truths I can handle, lies will come baack to haunt us both. No longer obsessing or using as weapons (did that). What's hidden is impeading my spouse as much or more than it is me.<P>The book "Never Be Lied to Again" is a principle based how to negotiate and how to recognize inaccuracies in professed truths.<P> MB principles dictate honesty as one of the main blocks of building and rebuilding a trusting relationship.<P>Appreciate all comments - either pro or con. <p>[This message has been edited by LooksGood (edited April 01, 2000).]

Hmm LOL Sparky is talking from experience here.<BR>I am his wife, the betrayer (LOL pass me my scarlet letter <P>Anyways....<P>Not knowing what you think she is lying about...she may be afraid to "ruin the recovery process"<P>She may not be willing/able to talk about certain things right now.<P>And most of all, she may be Sick of talking about it..(this is assuming you are talking about the affair she is lying about)<P>What is making you think she is lying?<BR>What does she do if you "call" her on it?<P>I guess I am unclear of what you think she is lying about..do you think she is still involved in the affair or what?<P>But if it is minor things that are bothering you..you may have to just make the Choice to trust her. <P>As someone else said in a post before: (kat?)<P>What are you choices?<P>you can live your life not trusting her and be miserable always worrying and hurting.<P>You can live your life trusting her and be happy, then if you find out she is lying and be hurt then.<P>Or you can trust her and be happy, and maybe she is being truthful. And you will both be happy and further along on the recovery road.<P>

Good points Caterpiller. Trust for present activities total. Affair definitely over and sure not to be repeated. Untruths are about the facts of the affair, how it started, etc. As has been pointed out before in the forum, most betrayed have a harder time forgiving the lies than they have forgiving the actual affair. How does one forgive the affair if truths of the affair are still masked?<p>[This message has been edited by LooksGood (edited April 01, 2000).]