I have found that I simply don't have the strength to make without the OW. We are back together. I've never loved anyone like this in my life - including my wife.<P>I know that what we are to go through is not going to be easy. But I know that what we are going to do is not the kind of thing that you guys will support. After all, it is MarriageBUILDERS.<P>I want to thank you for your willingness to help when I thought I could make my marriage work. All of you are really great.<P>I want to apologize for giving up so easily. I see so many of you fighting tooth and nail to keep your marriages and it makes me sad that I'm ready to end mine. You don't share 17 years with someone and leave without feeling anything. I will hurt. She will hurt.<BR>But we can't seem to get by it.<P>And because my chosen venture is now "off topic", I feel I must say goodbye.<P>You are a beautiful group of people. I've seen your pain, yet I think I would rather die than go on without her in my life.<P>No justifications, no excuses, no lies.<P>Good Luck to all, Apollo

Apollo13,<P>You are ALWAYS welcome back should circumstances change!!!<P>You will have a hard road ahead, as will your W and family. But, I do not judge you - only wish you, your W and family peace and happiness......<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Oh Apollo,<P>I am sorry that you feel this way...<P>I respect your decision and I hope that you will hang on to the happiness you are enjoying with her now..<P>I do hope that you and your wife separate with some kindness and love and that you both learn from whatever mistakes or unbecoming behaviors you both may have made or done. Life does change and as long as we learn how to be better people - that change can be for the best.<P>Please make sure that you have evaluated yourself - with complete honesty!!!! If you go full speed ahead into another relationship without completely realizing your inadequacies in regards to the last one....you are doomed to repeat!!!<P>Prayers to you and your Wife, it's sad that someone finds breaking up a family easier than trying their best to resolve the problems.....<P>I really think that relationship maintenance should be a subject taught in school!!! Forget the sex education and teach communication, commitment, resolving problems and the art of self-<BR>discipline and "real" love!!! Now that would be useful!!!!!<P>I hope this isn't coming off harsh...I certainly don't mean it to!! I just really hope that you know your True heart and that this is not the infidelity "grass is greener" thing!!!<P>I wouldn't want you to live your life as anything less than it could be..... As long as you have tried your best to be a good person and have truly done all you can to see if the marriage could work, then Good Luck to you....<P>HUGS and Prayers that you have taken the right path to a wonderful future!!<P>Sheba<P>

Apollo13,<P>It's sad to see you go... <P>We all hope to see you back! <P>Prayers for and your wife... She will be more than just sad.<P>I pray you and your OW see the will of someone greater than us all...<P>Jim

Apollo, I thank you for your honesty here. You replied to my postings and made me feel we had a bit of a connection as to our respective situations. As bad as this is going to sound to everyone else here. I really hope that you are happy in your decision. I hope that you haven't given up before the bell, though. I have often felt like doing exactly what you have done, though I don't have this option. I think you will never find it easier than your first marriage, but I hope that together you guys can work on making it better. Take care of yourself. If your not going to be in this forum..feel free to e-mail me at phishbane@yahoo.com anytime you need to chat.<P>------------------<BR>" I broke my promise to be faithful...so I make a new promise to be truthful and loving." Take care in the things you do and say. Be sure that they are loving and caring...not hurtful and neglecting. Arik<P>

Apollo13, <P>I can't send you my best wishes. I think what you're doing is <B>wrong</B>. And <B>you know it's wrong</B>. Maybe it hasn't hit you yet. But, it will. Your decision to choose the OW is clouded by fantasy. What you are experiencing is not true love. It's pure infatuation. Your lost. Your making an emotional decision that will have life long implications.<P>You didn't give your marriage a chance to recover. Feelings for your wife don't return overnight. A marriage doesn't recover from this overnight. you have to give it time. Doing the <B>right</B> thing isn't the easy thing - that is for sure. <P>This is a mistake your making. I hurt for you and especially for your wife. i ask you to reconsider. You have history with your wife. You had the same feelings for your wife as you do for the OW right now and YOU KNOW IT! Your just giving up because you don't feel it now. <P>I ask you to reconsider. If want you feel for the OW is meant to be, then your feelings will be there a year from now or two years now. Drop her like a brick. Work the MB principals for a year. Get counseling with your wife. Get anti-dep meds. TRY AND REBUILD YOUR MARRIAGE. If after a year, you don't see any progress and you and your wife BOTH agree your marriage is hopeless - then run to this OW. <P>I apologize for being stern, but you need to hear this. <P>If you're resolved to end your marriage - then do us a favor and tell your wife about this site. Maybe we can help her.<P>SHA

Apollo13,<BR>I am on the receiving end of what you are about to do. I have to share my son now, a little 7 year old who is so confused as to what is going on it's pitiful. I will also have to share him with the OM, something that makes me incredibly mad. I have no say as to a big portion of his day to day life anymore. I really want you to take another look at all the people that are involved in your affair and to see what you are going to have to take the responsibility for. You will have to take it and live with it. This has such a little chance of making it, you are giving up so much (and I don't even know you, but I know that what you are risking is way more than what you are going after. <BR>Read the book "Private Lies" memorize it if you have to. DON'T DO THIS..... <BR>I am so sorry for what your wife is going to be put through. If you feel that I have just tried to make you feel guilty, so be it. Right now that is exactly where you should be...

I want to say best wishes, and I do understand the "why" of what you're doing, but on the other hand, I want to say, geez, apollo, what'ya thinkin'??? <P>Do you realize, truly and honestly, what you're doing?? Do you know the chances of your new relationship making it? Did you give this enough time to "wake up" and realize that the OW is nowhere near perfect?<P>I am both betrayed and betrayer. I know what it's like to feel that strong pull toward the OP. I also have been in your W's place, and the pain is unbearable. I think you understand that. But what I'd like to speak to is the betrayer side of this: my OM <B>seemed</B> perfect, beautiful, intelligent, funny and sexy. In <B>truth</B> he was selfish, selfish, selfish, selfish, and selfish. He tried, and still tries, to take something that isn't his to have: <B>ME</B>!!<P>Please make sure you are <B>truly</B> in love before you do this. Give it time. I'm telling you, there is no more rude awakening than realizing you threw your life away for a fantasy.<P>Best wishes to you... and I offer those wishes sincerely...<P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<BR>

Apallo,<P>I have to agree withSHA and NSR. <P>What you are about to do is totaly self-centered.<P>I know I'm being judgemental, however I believe that haveing my toes stepped on and hearing what I don't want to hear is therputic.<P>What's really up? Do you lack the willingness to do whats right? Do you know the definition of willingness? I'll tell you mine. It's getting up off my [censored] and doing what I don't want to do to make changes! <P>Give your marraige a real chance. You might find out it's great.<P>Whenyou are done with what you say you are going to do come back, and join us on our road to recovery.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Thanks everyone. I knew I couldn't expect support...I wasn't asking for it. <P>Thanks to those of you who are being stern. I think I can tell that it's because you are terrified for me and my wife - not because you hate me. Thanks.<P>RMA: <BR>I know this is not going to be a peaceful road for all involved. I thought I had done some hard things in my life...but this scares the hell out of me. Thanks for the wishes<P>Sheba:<BR>I hope to end up on good terms with my wife for the kids sake (teenagers). But I know it would be expecting a bit much for her to be happy about this - she's obviously not. But I think she knows we have become very different people. I have done nothing but evaluate myself for over a year now. I'm not the same guy she married. I don't want to be that guy any more. She doesn't know if she can love the new guy. My OW really likes me - and I like her. We are truly best friends. My wife and I may have loved each other but I don't know if we ever really liked each other - if that makes any sense.<BR>I agree with the idea that emotional skills should be taught in school. Was talking to my kids' principle about that the other day.<P>Arik: I hope things continue to go well for you. Thanks for your support. I hope we are happy too.<P>SHA, mkn, NB, WilliamJ:<BR>I thank you for your concern. We speak of being clouded? Then why do I feel more clear about this than anything I've ever done?<BR>We speak of fantasy, but my OW and I know deep things about each other - including our faults. We have even discussed the things about us that are likely to drive each other nuts. I could never do this with my wife. We never connected at that level - I'm being as honest as I can, SHA.<BR>Morally, I know it's wrong. Would it be wrong to steal bread if I was starving? Of course, it would. I'm starving for something my wife can't give me...and has admitted she might not ever be able to.<BR>This relationship is not some teenage infatuation. It's real. That might threaten those of you who have built another paradigm to protect your own hopes. I'm glad you find ways to remain hopeful.<BR>NB - I've seen many women on this board say they realized their OM was a loser in the end. Is it true or have you had to convince yourself of that to let go?<BR>The really odd thing about this is that my relationship is not in reaction to a bad marriage - my wife is a good person and a good mother. I don't bad mouth her to OW. In fact, OW chastises me when I start complaining. I actually like her husband. Neither of us are leaving bad situations.<BR>And Bill...While I know you meant it for good, I am truly offended that you would imply that I'm being lazy. I've BEEN doing the hard work for a long while. <BR>And even with this choice, I know it's going to be a hard row to hoe. The lazy way out would be to just suck it up and keep living in a marriage that's not very fulfilling for either of us. NOT TO MAKE A DECISION is the easy way out.<P>I'm sorry if I've sounded harsh...but I'm not a child. And I don't think this is a childish thing I do...though some of you may disagree.<P>Best wishes to all of you in your chosen endeavor. I have chosen mine and am resolved.<P>Apollo<p>[This message has been edited by Apollo13 (edited December 04, 1999).]

To shed a tear for one lost in the clearing of a fog...<BR>To feel the loss of a soul... on earth so disembodied...<BR>To weep... for innocents... placed into endless turmoil...<BR>To turn away... to turn away... from the harder... better road...<P>In time Apollo...

apollo, <P>Now I'm getting angry. <P>Did I say my OM was a loser? No, I said he was selfish! And so was I. You know why? We took something that didn't belong to us (eachother) and did it under the guise of "love". True love doesn't steal or lie, there is no need. It is pure. As far as the OW chastising you when you complain about your W, well... uh, bully for her. Another reason to love her, I'm sure.<P>Did I say my H was anything less than a good man? No, I said that there was pain. I never bad-mouthed my H to OM because I loved my H... just not as much, I thought, as I loved the OM.<P>And so we come to the fantasy. Oh apollo, the fantasy that grows bigger and bigger, stronger and stronger... more <B>blind</B> by the moment. Honestly, I feel for you, I feel for your OW, but the person I feel sorriest for is your WIFE. She'll sit by and watch her life destroyed because of your decision, and one of two things will happen: she will learn that the men/husbands can't be trusted and will take x-amount of months and years to pull herself up and go on with life <B>OR</B> she'll watch you blindly go along with perfect OW and see you <B>wake up</B> one day and realize the mistake you made. It may or may not be "too late" as they say.<P>You are going to do this, obviously. Frankly, I think you're making a mistake, but not because of the reasons you think. I think it's a mistake because it was love born of dishonesty. Leave your W if you must. Find yourself. See who you are before you make the same mistakes down the road and break the OW's heart. One thing is sure: if you don't deal with what broke up your marriage in the first place, it will come back to haunt you. That, my dear apollo, is the truth.<P>------------------<BR>The good life is a process, not a state of being. It is a direction, not a destination.<BR>-Carl Rogers<P>

Apollo,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Then why do I feel more<BR>clear about this than anything I've ever done?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This sounds way too similar to things that people say while high on drugs.<P>It should make no difference whether you love or like your wife. It should make no difference how you feel about her or about the OW. You are making a choice to give up your children, to destroy their happiness, in the pursuit of your own. You are saying you would rather be with the OW than with your children. How much clearer could you make it to your children that you care about her more than you care about them. <P>Our two oldest children have each independently said that they no longer have a father, that their father has died. Do you want to risk having your children feel that way about you? I don't know if your kids are girls or boys, but if they are girls do you want your children to not be able to trust men? To believe that all men are untrustworthy? To convince themselves that men are completely superfluous when it comes to child-rearing? Or whichever sex your children are, to say that it is better to have sex with someone you don't care about, because then you can't be hurt? If they are boys, to say that they will never marry because they do not want to risk doing to their wives what their father has done to his? <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited December 04, 1999).]

Dear Apollo,<P>As a betrayer who felt very much as you do about the OP but ended the relationship, suffered through withdrawal, recovered her marriage with her husband and only discovered Dr. Harley and his principles about a year later, I will be very curious about how your situation works out. I am very convinced and certain that Dr. Harley is on the right track but it really does take time. I think sometimes it takes a few years to have the marriage that one wants. It has taken me about two years. I also believe that we sometimes never stop loving the OP but that we can love our spouse as much or more. I think sometimes it just takes "doing the right thing" at first even though it is the last thing we want to do.<P>I have done much soul-searching and observing of people as they go through this sort of thing, both on Marriagebuilders forums and in real life. Like I said, I believe that Dr. Harley has it right and so I hope you will let us know how it goes. He says that the betrayer usually always wants to come back but then it is too late. There are also the really bad statistics for marriages that start like your second marriage is about to.<BR>Will you come back and let us know how things go? Maybe Dr. Harley has it wrong and it isn't a fantasy etc.etc. I do think he is right when he says that people will throw away everything.....careers, family, reputation etc. in order to get emotional needs met. This is what you are about to do. But, maybe it will work for you. Let us know......those of us who took a different path will be wanting to know if it worked and was the answer to all your problems.

As a "betrayed" wife, I need to know a few things. <BR>1)Would you have done your soul searching before there was another person involved?<BR>2)What made you into this "new guy" Do you think that being with another soulmate somehow changed who you were? or did it come from within you prior to your meeting OW?<BR>3)Would you have been able to walk out on your wife if there had not been OW?<P>If your answers to the above are linked to the OW being in your life, then how can you truthfully justify walking out on your family and hope that relationships will remain the same with your children and that your wife will still be your "friend. Have you even considered the ramifications of ALL you will cause (and have caused)? Will you have to continue to justify to your children that your love for another woman was greater than anything else??? What will they believe...that for happiness one makes a commitment for life (marriage) and then breaks it when something more "fantastic" comes along??? I know this is scathing and judgemental and I sort of apologize for this. It is that i feel that you are not seeing the forest for the trees. <BR>Have you thought this out from all the other peoples perspectives in an honest , rational and realistic way???<BR>Havew you made a list of the pros and cons of leaving the marriage, writing them down on paper and then really thinking it all through?? <BR>Please put all this into perspective and then chose the path you need.<BR>If you walk out of the marriage, the only true path would be to live alone for at least a year, without OW or wife and chilren and then come to a decision as to what is best for future.<BR>Good luck to you and your wife for as easy a future can be in this terrible situation