Hi Everyone<P>My H is going through his withdrawal. I knew it would be coming, the hard part, but I didn't know it would feel as it does for me. (I wish the website talked about the experience from both sides!) It hurts me so much more to see him hurting this way for her. I'm surprised by how I feel. I'm surprised by how hard it is for him.<P>I keep telling myself that it is because he is still in this fantasy that he can not see things as I do. That because he has so many things distorted, this is why he is having such a hard time. I know these things and more to be true but it still hurts like heck.<P>We are separated and I told him when he needed me he could come by, whenever. I want to be here for him when he needs support because I know he isn't taking any support from anywhere else. I don't want to abandon him. Same time, I don't know that I can endure watching this.<P>I have this urge to remove myself from the situation and tell him not to come to me when he is down. But I'm afraid that is a wrong move and without me at the very least, he will end up calling the OW.<P>I have this urge to just give up on us.<P>I have this urge to call him and ask him why he brought this problem into our lives? Why can't he see how ridiculous this affair of his is? Why can't he see that what he has is not real?<P>...but I know the responses to all of these questions. He's addicted, he was in need of something I could not fulfill and sought it elsewhere, he's still having the fantasy which is why he can't see how silly it is and he can't get to reality just yet because he hasn't finished withdrawal...but seeing him as he is and hurting myself, knowing these answers does not help.<P>He may not want support from the forum but I do. I am losing hope. I can't believe how hard this is. This, being, the emotional roller coaster ride he has me on. I want to get off and take control of myself but I don't know how to do that and to move forward with this marriage at the same time.<P>I don't want to Love Bust which is why I haven't called him yet. Rather I sent him an email explaining to him the facts which are that I know what he is going through and compared it to an addiction that I once had (smoking) and pointed out all of the similarities between the two. And ended it by saying encouraging words and reassuring him that I was here for him when he needed me and I would stay away from him when he didn't.<P>I just can't believe how hard this is for me to know and see him going through this. I'm trying not to let what he is experiencing have a profound impact on me that will last my life but after just one short conversation with him, I feel I'm in total shock and like I'll never forget the experience. I mean, I'm his wife for God's sake! And that he could feel as he does for another woman is just beyond my ability to accept, still.<P>For those of you who have walked this path before me, please tell me how you coped with the feelings you had as a result of witnessing such a horrific site. I really need some help here. I'm really very scared.

ITH--<P>Wow! The similarities between you and I right now are very scarry!!<P>Isn't it funny how you go through Plan A, give all the support, are there for them...and then when they get to the point of withdrawl, you feel like LBing!<P>I have the exact same feelings that you do! There was a period of time last week where I couldn't touch my W or even look her in the eye, because it floored me that she could have feelings for someone else! It almost made me sick to my stomach to think that the OM had even touched her (her's was an EA, but I'm sure there were hugs and possible a kiss or two in there somewhere). I was ready to give up. I couldn't believe I was ready to end everything when things were finally getting better. Someone please explain my brain to me! <P>Anyway, one piece of advice I can give you is not to do what I just did today. On Thursday, my wife was just trying to be open with me and she showed me a letter from the OM. He had custody of his daughter for the weekend and he wanted my W and MY daughter to come to his house Friday afternoon. She said she called and left a message for him that she was not coming. But I absolutely lost it! Now he was getting my 2 year old daughter involved in the lying and deceipt. I had had enough, I left a message on his voice mail for him to call me to set up a face to face meeting. I was going to confront this a##%*!@. Anyway, when he called back and I heard his voice, I went ballistic! Yes, my W heard everything. I was screaming at him to leave my W alone and certainly don't even try to bring my daughter into this. Then he told me to "settle down and start acting a little more mature." I was ready to get in the car and drive to his house and rip his head off! Finally I realized that this was probably a major LB and I hung up. I was soooo mad my hands were shaking. Of course my W started to defend him right away. She told me that this was not all his fault, that she was also to blame and I should be yelling at her, not him. I tried to argue with her but quickly realized that there was no way to win that war!<BR>Now I am doing some damage control and hoping that my 6 months of hard work and Plan A did not go down the drain!!!<P>Please be careful!!! Don't make the same dumb mistake I made tonight....fight the urge to LB!!! Don't let your gut feelings tell you what to do! <P>Hang in there and please say a prayer for me!<P>Doug<BR><P>------------------<BR>Don't give up...don't ever give up!" --Jimmy Valvano

ITH,<BR>You wanted some input from the other side? Well, here it is. I detached from OM two weeks ago. Now I'm in major withdrawal. While I was in the EA I was a horny sex kitten with H. Now I cannot abide being touched. Managed to get through a round tonight for his sake with plenty of Astroglide. At least I'm not frankly depressed.<P>H does not know about the EA, nor will he ever know because he is and was a dangerous abusive type whom I can NOT trust. I have such a tight lid on my emotions that I don't feel anything. Maybe this is how I got in trouble in the first place. <P>MarriageBuilders doesn't talk much about the WS being the only fixer and how to get through it when the betrayed spouse is still a jerk LBing day in and day out. <P>I would tell him if I dared. I'm not afraid of divorce or abandonment, just the outrageous punishment I would have to live with for the rest of my natural life, divorced or not. H might even do something physical. So as long as I want to work on the marriage, there can be no honesty at all from me until he wants to make me safe from him. The day I give up on him I will be far away when and if anything negative is revealed. <P>Back to YOUR issue, DON'T LB! Being there to talk about the OW, his feelings, his pain, his withdrawal symptoms is very attractive in its own right. She got his heart probably by listening to him rail on you to some extent, so turn the tables. <P>It will establish you as a very safe haven with whom he can trust his most vulnerable parts. But it will be worse than nothing if you LB at all when he talks about her. <P>Good luck!<P>------------------<BR>"A true friend is one who not only is willing to love us the way we are, but is able to leave us better than he found us." Marvin J. Ashton

Is there hope? -- First to address your name. . .<B>YES</B><P>Someone told me a story once, a long time ago. They were going through a drug rehab program, and were relating some of the things that were discussed in counseling. . .Anyway, they said that in drug and alcoholic relationships, very often the "co-dependent" partner is totally supportive until . . . The drugs or alcohol are no longer a factor. Then they turn tail and run. . .<P>My point is that to we betrayed, Plan A has nothing in common with withdrawl. Fight kick and scream and fight with every ounce of our being to get our Spouse back home. Then once they are there we want the rebuilding to begin. . .It usually doesn't work that way.<P>Once our spouse is home, that is the time when our work really begins. That is when the withdrawl starts for the betrayer. It is during this time probably more so than any other than we must be 150% supportive of our spouse. It is very easy to fall back into a level of complacency when we are back together again. We begin to take things for granted, to expect certain things . . .<P>Using my own story as an example . . . I spent six months trying to get back together with my W. Why on earth would I spend that much time and effort only to "turn everything off" once we were together again.<P>I understand how difficult this is for you. You have come so close to the goal of many here on this forum. There truly is a light at the end of the tunnel, and it is finally starting to become visible to you. Don't give up.<P>God Bless<p>[This message has been edited by Empty Shell (edited April 02, 2000).]

Emptyshell<P>Thank you for your thoughts. I'm a little confused though. My H was home during his affair and has since left, about 5 weeks after the day of discovery even though I wanted him out long before then. He is only out now at my insistance.<P>I told him I didn't want him to come back to live until he has ended his love for the OW and when he returns we would go on for marriage counseling as a couple. In the meantime, we each are being counseled individually since he has issues I don't want to be privvy to (regarding her) and I am so deeply hurt that I have to begin to heal before I can go for marriage counseling.<P>But what you have said, it sounds like it is best for him to be in the house when he goes through this withdrawal. Is that what you mean? I have a very hard time with him being in the house Emptyshell. Each day I cry and cry and I honestly cannot control it when he is around. I look at him, I feel great love for him, and an even greater sadness at what he has done to himself, above all, but to me as well. <P>My H and I are in daily contact with eachother and the door is always open to him and he comes through it more often than not. So we are "together" in terms of our goal as a couple but not physically on a daily basis, just until he ends his love for her.<P>I hadn't expected to turn things "off" when he returned but rather to begin to turn things on again. I hope you are able to try and explain for me once again what it is you are trying to say. I'm grasping pieces but can't quite get it all. I really do thank you for your reply. Looking forward to the next one.

KindaBlue<P>I have to confess, I didn't actually do Plan A this time around. I did do Plan A back in 1997 when his affair began...and then we did counseling techniques via this website and looky where we are today! The affair never ended though I was lead to believe it had and even though he'd accepted my forgiveness.<P>Because I did do Plan A last time to no aveil, I refused to do it this time and moved to a modified Plan B. I wasn't out to punish the man, just get him out of the house because I couldn't control my own love busting. It killed me to look at him and everyday I subjected him to my pain and tears, not to mention the kids.<P>He's been out only ten days of the six weeks I've known of the 2+ year affair. Full truth came to light about a month ago and he hasn't spoken to her in as many days. So his that far into his withdrawal, whatever that means.<P>I know what you mean by "floored" I still am. The OW in our life doesn't even live in this country. It's just been telephone contact all this while. Talk about not even being in REALITY! Major EA, MAJOR! And I found out too she has tainted his thoughts about me with her own ideas. Very clever this lady. (She managed to persuade him to think that I've gotten pregnant twice during their affair to trick him into staying with him...why would I trick a man whom I thought was happy to be married to me, whom I didn't even know was having the affair as I thought it ended no sooner than it began!)<P>Actually, I speak to the OW rather often. Admittedly, I do it to give her grief. She actually expects my H to marry her while he is still married to me. (The two of them are not Christian though I am.) I figure I'll let her know what life will be like with me as a first wife. I told her two years back to get out of our lives and she didn't, so I figure if she really wants in, I'll give her a taste of what it will be like. I doubt that my H will be so attractive to her now that she knows what comes in the package! (As much as he says he loves this OW, which is more than me, he will not divorce me to marry her. ???)<P>But yes, this OW expects me to also be polite when I talk to her. I really can not understand where these ill-behaved people get off thinking people in our position owe them even an ounce of respect. Honestly, this is perhaps one of the bigger things about this whole incident that boggles my mind, though there are others, surely! How in the world can they expect us to be polite when they were trying to take our spouses and devistate our marriages and families! HOW!<P>I don't do any of this conversing when H is around though. He knows I call and asks why but doesn't know to what extent we talk or what we talk about. Though I must say, I think I know her better than he does at this point. He's far more concerned about the expense of all these overseas calls than the calls themselves. Having said that, I don't even know if I'm technically LBing with what I'm doing! ;-)<P>You will most certainly be included in my prayers. Hope to hear more from you and will look for your posts in the forum to see how things are moving along. I really appreciate your input on this.

Karenna<P>My God, my prayers and thoughts are with you. Dare I say, from what you have posted in this thread only I can understand how another man would be more attractive and tempting. My apologies if my question here hurts, I hope you can understand...I feel scared for you and can't help but wonder why it is you are returning to your H. I would be the first to agree that to remain with the OM would not likely work out in the long run given it stems from having had an affair and has not been a relationship built with a clean heart. But you actually seem to be in danger with the decision you've made. I can see with it is that within only two weeks you are going through major withdrawal as you've noone at home to help you at all.<P>I think MB doesn't discuss your particular scenario because in all likelihood, it's next to impossible TO get through all of this when the betrayed spouse behaves as your does. I mean, would you have even done what you did had he been a different type of person? And given that he doesn't see the errors of his ways, which gives you no real reason to want to return to him or to have hope for a good marriage in the future, in fact, I think reality is, returning to him, despite your efforts here and now, will only bring you right back to square one in betraying him again one day in the future.<P>I am sorry I don't speak with more hope but given all that you've said Karenna, I really can't see that there is any but again, I am only referring to this thread and will try to look up other posts by you to see what I may be missing.<P>I thank you for your good thoughts on turning the tables and not love busting and that it will be in my favor to be a sort of safe haven for him. I hadn't thought of that. I'm so busy trying to not react to my own feelings here...thank God for the forum and folks like you who can think things through more clearly for me.<P>Karenna my prayers are with you. Be safe. Be careful. You are doing the right thing by ending the affair, I will surely agree with you and support you on that issue 100%. I just worry about your marriage. (Do you have kids?)<P>Thoughts and prayers are with you!

Is There Hope? <P>Yes, there most definately is! When my H went through his withdrawl, I couldn't imagine that things could have gotten any worse for me after everything that I had already felt... but I was wrong.<P>It too was extremely difficult for me to see my H so sad and depressed, pining over another woman. I don't think that I really understood what to expect either and I agree, it would have been very helpful to have known something about what to expect. Perhaps that is a good suggestion to Steve for another section of the MB Basic Concepts.<P>But for now, all I can do is try to give you some encouragement and advice from my olwn experience. I hope this helps you.<P>Like I said it was very hard for me. It did hurt so bad to see this. I also wanted to spill my own hurt to him so that he could see what he was doing. But that is a very tricky situation.<P>I think timing is definately a big key to how this information is recieved but one time I did print out a bunch of the MB material, that seemed to pertain to the cause of the affair and the break-up ang then of course the withdrawl. <P>I never ever let my H see my own frustration and I will tell something, it is alot harder to do under the same roof then just every so often. Anyway, I made a little book of it and I gave it to him and told him that I didn't mean to upset him but that I only hoped that it could help him some. I also told him that there were some really good things in it and that I hoped that he would at least give it a look.<P>I left it there and he did and he could really relate to alot of the stuff that was in it. He read for about an hour with all of his attention focused in that book. He read mostly about "How affairs begin?", "How affiars should end?" and about the Withdrawl.<P>I think that it did help him to understand what was going on and seeing the simularities to his own feelings and the events in his own situation. Then to hear that there is light at the end of his tunnel as well was somewhat comforting to him I think.<P>He told me once that the whole Withdrawl thing was the worst feeing and that although he knew in his head that it was stupid, it was hard to avoid or ignore the way he was feeling. <P>The thing about withdrawl is this... It is like someone who is trying to stop smoking. It is a habit, you don't necessarily love those cigarettes but it has become a habit that you have grown accustom to for quite awhile and you can't help but think about it.<P>The difference between you and this OW is that you have always been there and he still knows that you are there. So there is nothing to really miss. But this other element of his life is gone. Plus, he is coming out of this fog sorta thing and is really beginning to see what he has done. That is alot to absorb and deal with.<P>You should not take it personally at all. I know that the fact that its not a cigarette but another individual is alot different but in all reality it is basically the same thing. So don't put more significance on it than it deserves.<P>So here is my advice...<P>Don't do anything. You have already told him some concepts, which means that you have planted some seeds. You have told him that you are there for him if he needs you and that you will also stay out of his way when he doesn't... that is good so do it!!<P>When he needs you... be there for him. Not in the way "YOU" think he needs you but the way that "HE" thinks he needs you. Hard to know? Just follow his lead and give him a little time to convey it to you. Don't just go rushing in to save the day. Think of it as a dance... let him lead you.<P>Be strong for him when he is around, you will have the time that he is not around to regroup.<P>And most of all... DON'T TAKE THINGS PERSONALLY!!! He is still in his fantasy yes but hopefully he is coming out of it. Your love, patience and care for him even during this time and after all that he has done... will show him what real love is in reality.<P>You can do it... Unfortunately this thing is much like a game of stradegy... so play a smart game and you will come out the winner.<P>There is one more thing to consider here. After he goes through his withdrawl, you will be able to free yourself to begin your individual recovery and he will need to be there for you when it becomes your turn to need him so set a good example.<P>My H and I are doing well for the most part. We have a few issues that I am feeling pretty upset about but we are working it out. But all else is good... real good. To tell you the truth, my H is a much better H for having gone through this I think. <P>So again... YES YES YES There Is Hope!!!!!<P>Hope I have helped you some.<BR>Genie

Is there hope? -- I'm sorry if I confused you. I am afraid that I have never been very good at expressing my thoughts and feelings very well. There are so many here who can saythings and have them make perfect sense. . .I guess my mind just doesn't work that way. Let me try to answer some of your questions. Hopefully I will do a better job this time.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But what you have said, it sounds like it is best for him to be in the house when he goes through this withdrawal. Is that what you mean? I have a very hard time with him being in the house Emptyshell. Each day I cry and cry and I honestly cannot control it when he is around. I look at him, I feel great love for him, and an even greater sadness at what he has done to himself, above all, but to me as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, I think that is what I am saying. In most cases an affair begins because of an inability, whether real or percieved, to turn to our spouse for support and comfort. During the time when the betrayer is going through withdrawl, is very definitely the time they need to be able to turn us.<P>I read somewhere once, that history has a way of repeating itself. He didn't turn to you before. Now he is out of the house, he is going through withdrawl and has two options available to him. Turn to you, who he wasn't able to go to before, or turn to the OW, who was more than willing to meet his needs before. It's sort of like leaving an alcoholic alone in a bar on New Years Eve. There are times when the withdrawl is so severe, that they will turn to the easiest source of comfort.<P>The love you feel when you look at him is the thing you need to try to hold onto. That is what can help you both to overcome this. All of us who have been betrayed know the feeling you describe very well. There have been many times when I look at my W and feel a tremendous amount of love, and then in the next second feel very deeply the pain that she caused as well. Sometimes she is able to "see" my thought process change, and she reacts accordingly. . . By drawing away a little bit. It takes time for those feelings of pain and loss to dissipate.<P>I guess what I am trying to say, is that if your H is there at home, and he is having a hard time with the withdrawl, it is easier for him to turn to you when you are there.<P>Genie29 has also given some very good advice in addressing this. Read her reply closely.<P>I hope I was a little more clear this time. If not, feel free to Email me at MB_Empty_Shell@hotmail.com , maybe a more one on one conversation will be clearer.<P>God Bless

Hi Is there Hope,<P> YES there is hope and YES, the withdrawl is the absolute worst thing to have to go through as a betrayed. It is such a kick in the teeth(and very hard to not take personal)....we moved to get away from OW so I lost my friends, my life I had created and on top of this, the miserableness of watching my H pine after another woman.....it hurt big time.<P> The withdrawl takes time (in our case 6-7 mos).....I don't think it's that long for everyone, Steve H told me I was contributing to the length because I was depressed and resentful. One thing I learned and wished I had done earlier was to consciously do things to make myself happy.......think of something nice to do for yourself everyday....The worst is over here and I can hardly believe that my H is being loving, kind and thinking of me.......the "old H" I used to know.....Hang in there, and be good to yourself.......LU