Just a quick update. Cat and I are still under the same roof , but we are kind of distant. Mostly my fault, I guess, trying to figure out why the he11 I'm still here.<BR> Well, I know why, I'm just not sure if I can continue to be here. No one else out there waffles back and forth, do they? <P>We have a counseling session tonight with the Christian counselor I've seen a few times now. Guess I'm just curious what the heck goes on in joint counseling. At least w/ one on one counseling, I talk he listens, he talks I listen. That sounds dumb now, I guess it will just be when someone talks the other two will listen. Can you tell I'm just a bit nervous?<P>Mostly worried he's going to say, "Why are you two still married?" or maybe anticipating that. or <P>Has anyone had any "breakthoughs" right away w/ counseling? Did it take sometime? How long? etc. Lots of questions to ask, just not sure what they all are yet.<P>But if anyone can sort through the rubble that is my post, some encouragement/advise would be greatly appreciated.<P>BTW, Tim, if you read this, Big Bird's lack of fingers was the result of some mobsters and an illegal gambling operation in a back room of Mr. Hooper's store. Trust me on that one. <P>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

Sparkydog: As I mentioned to Cat, you are both adults. Hopefully this session will help you establish a productive and constructive dialogue. If your focus is to save your relationship, then your primary objective is to become each other's best friend and love. First identify your concerns, wants and frustrations, then as with any team effort, develop a plan for solutions. Next step is to take action. Keep in mind that the process does not happen over night, commitment has to be there, understanding from both that sometimes we do fall off the wagon and the other needs to be there to pull the fallen back up. <BR>Believe me when I say I have been to many counselors, but I found the best advice has been what I have learn in school and work. If we can put a project together with team effort, how can I use this same format(maybe with a different mode, but same basics) in putting my marriage back together. <BR>I have faith in both of you. When you both talk to me, you both work together in helping me look at ways to deal with my illnesses. Call it team effort. Use that same team effort in healing yourselves. I am praying for you both.

In our joint sessions, our counselor talked to both of us and asked each of us questions. We really focused on what went wrong and what each of us could have done differently. Basically seeing our own faults and thinking of ways we could have changed to have a different effect.<P>One word of advise is if you hear yourself telling your W "You did this..." or "I hate it when you" STOP RIGHT THERE! It's only going to cause the other person to be defensive and you'll end up in an arguement in front of the counselor. (Feeling 2 inches high no less). Instead think about what you are staying and phrase it like this "What can I do when ____ makes you angry" Use "I" statements rather than "you" statements.<P>Hope that helps.

The waffling back and forth is normal It dissipates with time. <P>There will be some breakthroughs within the first couple of sessions, probably small ones. Don't kid yourself into thinking everythings fixed after a couple of sessions though. Often times you've just hit the surface.<P>Timeframes vary. I know one couple who went through two years of counseling, and although their marriage is back on track there are still unresolved issues. I know another couple (a minister and his wife in fact) who went through a year before they determined to end their marriage and another year to make sure. I've read that six months minimum is a good time frame. I guess it depends on the individuals.<P>He won't ask why you two are still married. He knows you two are there to work on things, and it is his job to help you. If he does ask, find another counselor. (Well actually he might ask as a rhetorical question to get you to think of the positive things happening in your marriage, but I don't think he would word it like that.)<P>The first assignment our first counselor gave us was to come up with a vision for our marriage. What we thought marriage was, and what we wanted it to be. I've read that same exercise in another book, and it starts with both sides making their own vision , and then together finding a common one. It has things like We feel comfortable talking to each other about anything. We discuss discipline together before taking action. That kind of thing.<BR>

Our first counselour spoke with each of us individually and then together. After several sessions, she did not give us any plan for working on the marriage (other than to talk to each other), and we decided to try Steve H. instead. He also spoke with each of us individually, and then togther outlined his plan for working on things.<P>One note of caution....my H was very defensive in initial sessions with both counselours, and I later found that is <B>very common.</B> <P>Betrayers often feel they are being judged (well, by virtue of being there, aren't you admitting that the affair was wrong, and that you know you need to work together to fix things?), and that their feelings for OP are being discounted (again, probably true to some extent, but hard to hear that it wasn't really "true love"). <P>Anyway, your experience may be 100% different. But, don't be surprised if there is some defensiveness. It hurt me a lot. Made me think he wasn't willing to work on the marrige. But, he was, even tho it was really, really hard for him. (So, again, we betrayed are called upon to be understanding...)<P>Hope your meeting goes great!!!<P>Kathi

Posting a seperate topic to you and Cat<P>Dana<BR>