Okay, I’ve only had half a bottle of wine, so if I drone on & on... <B>TOUGH LUCK!</B> LOL!<P>Took off to FL on Friday, the 24. Drove to AR & stopped at my Uncle & Aunt’s on Sat, only about 35 miles from wankboys parents house.<P>On Sunday I asked the girls if they wanted to go see Mom. Both said no. The oldest had <B>nothing</B> to say. The youngest told me to tell her, “I love you?” Sorta like it was something she HAD to say, not because she wanted to say it. Boo hoo mom.<P>I drove out there. Little town of 5000 or so. They live about 2 miles out of town. Took a few deep breaths & stopped. wanboys truck wasn’t there so I felt okay. Knocked on the door. A 6-8 year old kid poked his nose at the front window. Next he & an old ( l)lady answered the door.<P>“Yes, may I help you?”<BR>“I’m Chris, Donna’s husband. I stopped by to see her. We are on our way to Florida & she hasn’t seen our kids in almost a year and we haven’t heard from her in a while. Thought we would stop by & take her to lunch.”<BR>“They aren’t here. They are in Memphis & won’t be back ‘till late tonight. Can I give her a message?”<BR>“Just tell her I stopped by and sorry I missed her.”<BR>“Okay”<BR>So I took off. I felt as if she didn’t really understand (perhaps she didn’t care?) So I went to Walmart & got Donna a card and went back to the house.<P>“Hi, I’m back.”<BR>“Yes?”<BR>“Would you please make sure my wife gets this card?”<BR>“Yes I will.”<BR>“Thank you ma’am. Goodbye”<P>That was it. Very uneventful. Girls didn’t even ask if she was there.<P>She called on Thursday to my cell phone & left a message;<P>“I didn’t receive your card telling me you were gonna be here until the day after you were here. I assume you were on your way to FL for vacation. I won’t be here next week if you are coming back this way. I’ll call back later. We should probably talk about the visit sometime.” Blah, blah, blah! “Just wondering why you didn’t call or why the girls haven’t called me at all.”<P>She told me not to call her at all when she left. I haven’t. She sent the girls phone cards and told them how to use them. They don’t want to call her, probably even less than she wants to call me! What a loser.<P>Anyway, she tried to call again but the phone was out of range. She called last night but we didn’t hear it ring so she left a message again wondering why the girls haven’t called her.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Chris,<P>I think I understand where you are...<P>Just my thoughts on the matter...<P>How about calling Donna again... later today...<BR>...think of something for the girls to say to her too...<BR>...and give them as much or as little time they want to talk to their mom as you can. But, do ask them to talk to her.<P>I know you don't feel it...<BR>I hardly think I'm in a traditional Plan A either...<BR>but Plan A is where we are!<P>Meeting emotional needs is tough...<BR>Having the WS to reach out... makes it just a touch tougher.<P>Pride... my friend... is what you have already for all the great work a single dad can do...<P>Now is the time to put it aside...<BR>...just a little.<P>I'm humbled by the effort you put out...<P>Your brother <P>Jim

Hi Chris,<P> I was just thinking of you yesterday and wondering if you were back from your trip. It's funny how you get connected to the people on this board. <P>Anyway, glad you had a good time and for the life of me can't figure out your W.....it almost sounds like the girls are growing indiffernt to her... are you still holding out until Christmas? ....or what's your plan now? (Inquiring minds want to know!) LU<p>[This message has been edited by Lu (edited April 06, 2000).]

Dang Chris...I've been lurking and following you and your daughters plight for a long time. You are one strong father...God definitely knew what he was doing when he gave you those girls. I have 2 myself and I have no idea how I would handle what you do. Stay strong, lots of people are praying for you.

Chris, my 14 year old refuses to talk to her dad on the phone unless she is the one who answers...and this is a man she sees nearly everyday. If Donna wants to talk to your kids, I think it is her responsibility to see that it happens, and if the kids don't want to talk on the phone...then she has to come see them, with your permission. YOU shouldn't be the one to have to browbeat the kids.<P>This is JMHO.<P>Wankboy's mother must have passed on the DOH! gene...if not, I'd have liked to hear her next conversation with him.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Hi Chris,<P>I'm sorry that things with Donna didn't go very well.<P>I agree with Lor. If Donna wants to hear from and see her daughters, then it is her responsibility to make more of an effort.<P>I understand that you want your daughters to have a good relationship with their Mother, but it doesn't sound like it is priority with Donna. That truly is sad.<P>Fortunately, your daughters have you. You are an excellent father to them and despite this unfortunate circumstance with their Mother, you have remained so strong for them. You have shown them what it is to have integrity, loyalty and love.<P>Are you still going to wait until December to move to Plan B? Or, do you think that now is the time?<P>p.s. I think you can write a book on Tough Love...

Jim, I don't call Donna. Not at all. Last time I called her, 18 Feb 99, day after she left, she screamed & yelled at me, "we're separated, don't call me! You don't need to know where I am or what I'm doing!"<P>So calling her would be a lovebuster.<P>I will mail her another card though.<BR>They do if she calls but they don't call her or send her letters.<P>My Plan is to go until 25 Dec. I will continue to send short cards/letters. No use in going to Plan B. I think she would laugh at me because there has been no contact from her to me since 2 Dec.<P>She hadn't called since late Feb. I think she was probably waitng for the girls to call her. She did say she windered why they hadn't. She's short a few DOH! genes too. LOL<P>Anyway, I'm expecting her to call again sometime in the next few days & maybe even actually speak to me. I think she wants to discuss visiting the kids.No way will I send them there or let her have them off by herself if she comes here for a bit. Matter of fact, if there is a hint of threatening to take them, I'm off to get a temp custody order. At least then I'll have something to let her in on reality. Child support! Not that I need or want it, but she should feel some responsibility.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Chris,<P>I know I don't understand all your interactions with Donna...<BR>...and the multiple affairs...<BR>...and the funeral last year...<P>...but...<P>if the last time you called her was over a year ago... and she says "Just wondering why you didn’t call"... I don't think she would make it a love buster this time.<P>Remember... it's the other spouse that defines the Love Busters... and they (Love Busters and what causes them) can change over time.<P>Wasn't it Steve that recommended to "stir the pot"? I don't mean to say you didn't by not doing more while visiting wankboy's folks...<BR>...you did what you could then...<BR>...but you have an opportunity to stir a little more here? No?<P>Chris... your are so <B>strong</B>...<BR>(half bottle of wine or not!)<P>You don't have to fear her taking your call as a love buster...<P>You don't have to fear her yelling at you...<P>You don't have to fear her... showing some signs of softening either... although I think maybe this is the most difficult of the fears to face. I wonder and imagine if/when the day my W starts to show some softening of her heart too... how I will react...<P>I know my recommendations are going against the general trend here...<BR>...so what's new (ask Medic about what I recommend to him.)<P>These are just some thoughts...<BR>and idea or so...<BR>think it through for a while.<P>Donna's not going to knock on your door this week... is she?...<P>Maybe pray on it a bit.<BR>It has always helped me.<P>If you call... and she goes into a flying fit...<BR>...is it going to make a difference to you?...<BR>...won't your Plan A... go on as normal?<P>If she takes it a different way...<BR>...we'll be here to "talk" it out with you.<P>Hey...<BR>I know you get it from the girls...<BR>But I thought I'd tell you too...<BR><B>Your Loved</B>! <P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited April 06, 2000).]

Ya' know, nowadays, I don't have anything to say to her. I don't know WHAT I could say.<P>Had any good sex lately?<P>When she says, "Wondering why you haven't called?" she is asking the girls. When she leaves messages, she is talking to the girls, not me. Always. It's not a matter of me "guessing" what she is doing. She always says something to the affect of, "just wondering how you girls are doing and why you haven't called."<P>Hrumph... (that is a shoulder shrug & head shake of not knowing what to do)<BR><P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Chris...<P>I understand your upset...<P>I was never more upset than when there was more contact...<P>...and you know what...<P>...it might not be such a bad idea...<BR>...conflict (but no LBs)...<P>The three phases of a marriage are <BR>intimacy...then conflict...then withdrawal.<BR>To move back to an itimacy phase... you have to work back through conflict.<P>Right now your conflict(with yourself)... seems to be want to avoid conflict...<P>Don't be afraid of what happens if you call...<BR>Discuss the girls... (family commitment EN)<BR>Discuss you... (how you've grown EN)<BR>Discuss your job (financial stability EN)<BR>Discuss your concern for her (attention EN)...<P>Ask is there anything you can do (to help)? (be careful of this one... can escalate into a LB quickly if not handled correctly.)<P>If a topic is too sensitive... say you'd rather discuss that in a follow-up call.<P>If she <B>really</B> doesn't want to talk to you... she'll say it... and be cool with it...<BR>That would take you one step further in the Plan B that is nested in your Plan A.<P>You can do Chris...<BR>You're the pillar of patience... <BR>Psych yourself up...<BR>...and if she doesn't want to talk...<BR>...<B> I T I S O K </B>!<P>Ok... enough of me...<BR>(I'm being worse with you than I was with Medic)<P> <P>Jim

Gee, Chris.<P>How about recording something on your answering machine.....<P>Hi, this is Chris. We can't come to the phone right now. ........ unless your name is Donna, and .......<P>I know you can come up with something very creative.<P>TNT

...then you can jump off a cliff?<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

??? maybe? <P>If this is Donna, then just to let you know how your daughters are: Mary is now 5'2... and did really well on her Science fair.....<P>I'm sure anyone else who calls your house definitely knows that Donna is "uninformed, not involved - and certainly concerned."<P>UGGGHHH!<BR>

Chris,<BR> So tell us about your trip.How many miles did you drive?Did you and the kids have fun in Florida?How about some pix like you posted here before? --Murph

Hey Chris,<P>I'm with Jim on this one. It's time to make the call. You got one of the standard betrayers lines when she told you not to call. If she doesn't want to chat with you, act as if that is fine and it should be. <P>When Val asked me how I was doing I told her "Couldn't be better, thanks for asking" Don't know if it made her think or not. I'm getting tired of playing games. Sometimes I am doing OK, not this past week. I'm going to be 40 this year. Looking for W number 3. This time I'll get it right. Sorry, I went away for a little, now I'm back.<P>If the girls don't want to talk maybe that will be a little glimpse into reality.<P>And yes Jimbo is being harder on you. He only told me I should start dating chocolate. HUH? Melts in your mouth, not in your hand.<P>Time to take care of Chris and his kids.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Tim

<P>Thank you Jim.....I totally agree with everything you have said!!!!<P>Chris.....you're losing love, it's nerve-wracking to think about but I do think that you should explain to Donna that the girls have not wanted to call her....she doesn't know that - she may just think you are stopping them.<P>Think about it - OK?<P>What she told you about not calling her was her way of getting away from the unsettling guilt she had then....she may still have that guilt - but it has settled into some "morphed brain zone" now and I don't think you're calling her would be a LoveBuster. In fact - I think it would be an endearing thing for you to explain why the girls haven't called (because they don't want to - not why they don't want to : that's something she will have to get from them!). <P>She needs to know ......<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

Chris,<BR>Your w sounds like my x, she blames me for them not calling her. They don't call her for two reasons: 1) She isn't ever there and it takes half a day for her to get back with messages. 2) they don't want to talk to om. This has improved as he has quit answering the phone for the most part.<P>She keeps saying things will change once she gets in the house. However om is still going to be there and that won't change for the kids.<P><BR>I disagree with the others and think you should move on with your life. It sounds like your d's already have.<P>I wish you the best in what ever you decide to do. <P>God Bless,<P>Bob

Chris, I agree with RWD. <P>But I also think your wife needs to understand the consequences of her actions (as if you don't already know this )<P>If your kids don't want to talk to their mother, they shouldn't be forced, they've been through enough already. You can sit down and talk with them openly about their feelings, but the choice is their's ultimately. I agree with RWD on all counts.

RWD and Connor -<P>How do you figure that the girls have moved on past this with their lives?<P>I don't see that....I see two kids who's Mom took off and only know that she doesn't want them.......I see hurt and avoidance and a lot of confusion bottled up. It's only natural.<P>Please explain why you feel that way - I am missing something.....<P>Donna was never told that they don't want to speak with her.....Shouldn't she be told that?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Jeez, can’t I even let my marriage break down without a bunch of people poking their noses in? LOL<P>I don’t wanna play this game anymore. I’m taking my football & going home!<P>I guess one of the problems I have with calling her is it’s wankboys cell phone. I’d have a hard time if he answered.<P>I know what I’m supposed to do. I’ve been preaching here for over a year about it all. So much easier to give advice than to take it, ya’ know?<P>Tim, dating chocolate that melts in your hands? Hmmmm, that sounds interesting. Let’s see, it’s been 441 days since I last had... But who’s counting?<P>Sheba, ya’ just have to chime in too, don’t ya’? <P>I do think it’s a bit odd that she has said anything positive OR negative about the cards & letters I have sent her. Ya’ think she’d tell me to get bent & quit it.<P>Something I have to really think about (calling her)<P>Murph, I didn’t bring my digital camera this time so I have to get the pix developed before I can post some. Thanks for reminding me about it. I drove over 4200 miles in 8 days. We stopped in Atlanta on Monday because I wasn’t feeling to good (stomach). About 1030 that night I was really hurting. I had to put my fingers down my throat to make myself throw up. Went to Walmart to get some Pepto. Did no good. Made me throw up. By 1 AM I was in tears. I called 911 because I was keeled over on the floor in so much pain. They showed up about 10 minutes later. Took all my vitals and said, “well, we can take you to emergency but it’ll be about a 5-8 hour wait.” They didn’t have anything for cramps with them but I could get some Emetrol at Walmart & it should help. I went & got it & fell asleep about 4 AM, woke up at noon and felt okay. Weehaa!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>